Old school alternative to cigarettes

[SnarkyClark]

So, is pipe smoking considered "smoking" in regards to this forum?

I ask, because with the FDA FUD hovering over e-cigs and most forms of alternative tobacco (they already said they will pull snus and ariva once the new bill passes), I have gone back to the old briar after 20 years.

Why? well since I FINALLY quit cigs I refuse to go back to them. And I seriously enjoy pipe smoking (no inhaling of course) as a relaxing pastime. But of course there is terribly conflicting studies about the general risks of pipe smoking.

I have found reputable studies showing that the risks are minor compared to cigs, and others that show almost the same risks...

Thoughts?

 

[Nick O'Teen]

I'd consider it "smoking". But then again, unlike Bill Clinton, I did inhale
I think that might account for the variable studies - it's a myth that pipe smokers "never inhale". Some do, some don't (I've met plenty of both,) and it stands to reason you'll get VERY different results depending who you test!

2oz of nice, light Burley and Virginia blends a week in my Missouri Meerschaum (cob) was my regular staple for the last 10 years or so. I never had much patience for dark, aromatic Latakias and Periques - they sweat all the nicotine out of them, so they're all flavour and no substance.
Maybe smokers who start on a pipe are less likely to inhale? I started on cigarettes and snuff, so by the time I took to the pipe I had a well-cultivate craving for the nicotine.

 

[OutWest]

imho it's smoking, but I also know that my grandpa spent just as much time cleaning and fussing with his pipe as he did smoking it. And, the cleaning and messing with it was almost as relaxing for him as smoking it. So, if youre smoking it less than you would a cigarette, there is that plus.

 

[Denni]

It's smoking. My transition from pipe (time-consuming) to cigarettes was flawless, and once you're used to inhaling cigarettes, you will probably inhale pipe smoke which may be even worse re. tar.

Plus nowadays there is no place where you can smoke a pipe in peace anymore If I retreat to some highland cottage for a protracted stay I may get one again. It's nice to have a pipe and a single malt next to a crackling fire

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

(they already said they will pull snus and ariva once the new bill passes

Snus?!? Do you have a link to this information?!?

 

[TropicalBob]

Pipes are my passion. I smoke about five a day, but, yes, it is smoking and I'm forced into the same uncomfortable corral as a cigarette smoker. I will say this loud and clear: I get compliments, not complaints, from people who wander into my exhaled pipe smoke. All the time. A common remark is that it reminds them of their grandfather, or that it doesn't stink like cigarettes.

I do not inhale and no real pipe smoker inhales. Only ex-cig smokers who don't know better. Pipe smoke is designed to be absorbed through the mouth and nose, with a PH that makes it extremely harsh if inhaled. If you want to commit suicide, inhale pipes and cigars.

I was greatly influenced by a Reader's Digest article a half-century ago that noted pipe smokers live longer than even non-smokers. Basically, this fact is the result of personality differences, not smoking differences. Pipe smokers tend to be unruffled, extremely calm types. Cig smokers are frantic and stressed much of the time. A cig smoker often goes nuts trying to adapt to pipe smoking's slow rituals of cleaning, packing, lighting, etc. Cig smokers want their fix right now!

I also love the way I look with a pipe in my mouth. It's damn dashing! I've become fond of "retro" even down to things like after shave fragrances. Pipes are retro. But we are a dying breed. Cigars had a revival in the affluent 1990s, but pipes are still a small minority. One of my tobacco stores stopped selling pipe tobacco and accessories last year because of a lack of demand.

Pipe smokers also have an incredible assortment of flavors, types of tobacco, and styles of pipe. A lifetime could be devoted to simply trying them all. And the urge to "collect" is strong.

Bottom line: I use snus all day, Stonewall dissolvables much of the day, e-smoke almost non-stop, inhale nasal snuff when the mood strikes, but puffing the pipe is the definition of contentment. Everything else is a nicotine delivery system; a pipe delivers pure pleasure.

 

[Mohave]

(they already said they will pull snus and ariva once the new bill passes)

Please elaborate on that. This is news to me.

 

[TropicalBob]

It's not true. It's true that they will have control over them, but a ban is not proposed. What will happen is that new devices marketed recently or in the future will face intense scrutiny, so much so that they likely won't be approved for sale. That will include the new Camel Snus and Camel dissolvable products. Star Scientific, maker of Ariva and Stonewall, was selling before the cutoff date, and should not be effected. Swedish snus should not be effected.

This whole bill is pro-Philip Morris. So RJR loses. As do we all.

 

[Mohave]

<SNIP>
​

...What will happen is that new devices marketed recently or in the future will face intense scrutiny, so much so that they likely won't be approved for sale....

<SNIP>
​

...Star Scientific, maker of Ariva and Stonewall, was selling before the cutoff date...

<SNIP>
​

This whole bill is pro-Philip Morris. So RJR loses. As do we all.

I fully agree with your accurate summary of the pending FDA legislation, and of the direction its supporters intend for it to take us after it passes. Anyone who would like to wade through the text of it can do so here:

GovTrack: H.R. 1256: Text of Legislation, Engrossed in House

But of course plain text of a statute is one thing, and implementation is another, there are some aspects of this legislation's effects that are not entirely clear, and it was also not clear to me if the original poster was actually referring to this bill (now pending in the Senate) or to FDA/executive branch statements related to it, or to something else.

I got quite a jolt and spit my morning coffee all over the keyboard when I read that parenthetical sentence. But then, I've been doing that a lot lately.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

I got quite a jolt and spit my morning coffee all over the keyboard when I read that parenthetical sentence.

Indeed.... Glad TB cleared that up. However, there's probably no way of knowing how all this is going to actually play out until the time comes.... Guess I'll just cross my fingers and wait and see....

 

[SnarkyClark]

Sorry, I was merely going off of what the American Association of Public Health Physicians said in their report on the bill:

Holding the snus and alternative nicotine delivery to the research standards of pharmaceutical products would cost the manufacturers millions of dollars per product and would deny current smokers the benefits of these products for a decade or more. Furthermore, such studies probably could not be conducted at current American academic centers because Institutional Review Board (IRB) guidelines would likely prohibit case/control studies on products with no therapeutic benefit. Thus, the seemingly reasonable research standards in the Waxman bill would likely result in a de-facto ban on all such products. AAPHP therefore favors the research guidelines from the Buyer bill [alternative legislation introduced by Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.)].

Original text found here: http://www.aaphp.org/special/2009/20090327tobcltr.pdf

I do like your interpretation better, Bob

And yes, I spend almost as more time fussing and cleaning my pipe as smoking it. I also smoke it terribly slow: one 'load' lasts me about an hour, and at once a day I have gone through about half an ounce of tobacco in a week (it's a small briar).

I quite originally because I was starting to inhale my pipe on weekend after smoking cigarettes all week. Stupid habit got to ingrained I guess. But after a successful cold turkey switch from analogs to e-cigs a month ago I find that I can't inhale smoke anymore. I even tried to inhale a cig a couple days ago and my throat cinched right up on me.

So now I find myself once again free to enjoy a leisurely pipe each evening. I will be curling up tonight with a new potential friend; some Cornell & Diehl "Snug Harbor". It's a blend of Burleys, Turkish, Latakia and Perique with just a hint of vanilla flavoring. The Virginias always tend to bite me a bit. Guess I just have a sensitive tongue (and/or I have gotten quite rusty at the art of smoking a pipe).

 

[Mohave]

I'm sure none of us wanted to jump down your throat, if that's what if seemed like Snarky.

Thanks for the link to that AAPHP testimony. I hadn't seen it before. Of course their bullet point relating to the effect on snus will be true for any product which was not on the market soon enough to meet the legislation's cutoff date. Which products may or may not qualify to be grandfathered in, aye, there's the rub.

So far as I can tell it seems clear Star Scientific's Stonewall/Arriva dissolvables shouldn't get classified as "new" under the legislation. I think Camel's snus may have been around long enough, but I don't know if that is correct. I am greatly concerned about Swedish snus, as that may be subject to interpretation during FDA rulemaking after the legislation becomes law, and I sure don't like the tack taken on these kinds of issues by anti-tobacco crusaders who will be influential in that process.

I need to go haul some more ammo and snus up to the cave.

EDIT to add:

From the MANUFACTURER'S WEBSITE under “Frequently Asked Questions.”

Is dissolvable tobacco a new product?

Ariva has been in the marketplace since 2001, and Stonewall has been sold since 2003. By our estimate more than one million people have tried these products since then...​

The “new product” cutoff date in the version of the legislation I've read is in 2007.

RE-EDIT to add:

Camel snus history:

The Camel Snus manufacturing venture was solely started by RJ Reynolds on 28th April 28, 2006, and the product was initially introduced in the areas of Austin, Texas and Portland Oregon. This Camel Snus was further introduced to eight more states. In the month of May, 2008, RJ Reynolds took Camel Snus into the key markets of Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York and Washington, D.C.

http://www.snusgeneral.com/CamelSnus.html​

From the text of the bill:

‘SEC. 910. APPLICATION FOR REVIEW OF CERTAIN TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
‘(a) In General-
‘(1) NEW TOBACCO PRODUCT DEFINED- For purposes of this section the term ‘new tobacco product’ means--
‘(A) any tobacco product (including those products in test markets) that was not commercially marketed in the United States as of February 15, 2007; or
‘(B) any modification (including a change in design, any component, any part, or any constituent, including a smoke constituent, or in the content, delivery or form of nicotine, or any other additive or ingredient) of a tobacco product where the modified product was commercially marketed in the United States after February 15, 2007.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1256​

Looks like that phrase “including those products in test markets” could be a problem.

 

[TropicalBob]

Thanks for chasing down those specifics, Mohave. I have to agree with your conclusion that both Camel and Swedish snus could face consequences under this bill.

Frankly, this is getting depressing. It seems certain we'll soon get negative action on e-smoking, which could remove it as a viable smoking alternative. Then they'll turn to snus and dissolvables. I like my pipe, and it will remain legal, but I would surely miss the other options I now use to stay off cigarettes.

 

[frogbmth]

Has anybody tried the VaporGenie?

VaporGenie

 

[Nick O'Teen]

no real pipe smoker inhales. Only ex-cig smokers who don't know better.

Y'know, inhaling wasn't only suddenly invented when cigarettes came along (and they didn't really get popular until WW1.) Your average corncob-tokin' bubba, or even the old boys smoking clays up in the valleys round here, have been inhaling all along without the prerequisite of a cigarette habit.
Just because white, middle class, middle-aged briar connoisseurs (no offence intended - I fit that demographic too ) like to appreciate the esoteric rituals and imagined exclusive sensibilities, doesn't mean they have a complete monopoly on enjoying the art of pipe smoking.
I have a wide collection of briars, clays, meerschaums and porcelain pipes which I have cherished and accumulated over many years.

I toked a cob for my daily habit, because it would be sacrilege to cremate a fine briar by chain-smoking it just to feed a nicotine addiction. But you can appreciate foie gras AND Burger King, even if the connoisseurs may sneer at the latter. I applaud your taste and refinement, but spare a thought for your Elizabethan, Jacobean and Georgian forebears, who inhaled their pipes because cigarettes had not yet been invented.

We are all Sir Walter's heirs, one way or another

 

[strayling]

Cig smokers are frantic and stressed much of the time. A cig smoker often goes nuts trying to adapt to pipe smoking's slow rituals of cleaning, packing, lighting, etc. Cig smokers want their fix right now!

...

Pipe smokers also have an incredible assortment of flavors, types of tobacco, and styles of pipe. A lifetime could be devoted to simply trying them all. And the urge to "collect" is strong.

Vaping can share some of these characteristics and that's one reason I like it. There's the ritual of filling carts, getting the filler adjusted satisfactorily, putting the device together and settling back for a relaxed vape. One cart lasts about an hour for me and then it's time to repeat the process.

Collecting: well, a quick scan of the messages here shows how popular that is. There are so many different types of e-cig and it can become a quest for the perfect vape.

Same goes for the different liquids, mixing your own to get exactly the right strength and flavour.

Of course you *can* just slap in a cart and puff away like a maniac, but that's not half as much fun.

 

[Mohave]

Thanks in advance to any who might feel like taking the time:

1. Do you think (properly) smoking a pipe can be realistic as a more than occasional alternative for a heavy (2+ pack/day) cigarette smoker?

2. Is there any advice anyone would care to offer someone new to pipe smoking: choice of pipe(s), type of tobacco, methods, tips & tricks, etc? Bear in mind your audience is someone who has no experience with pipes, pipe tobacco, or any aspect of using them, knows nothing of the subject, and would rather not make a large investment while he is not certain if he will take to it, or to what extent he might find it satisfying.

3. How do you think the long range total cost compares to other choices?

4. I gather from the above that a pipe involves some degree of complexity in use and perhaps a considerable amount of preparation time. Does this tend to make it difficult to use very often outside of home?​

 

[SnarkyClark]

Vaping can share some of these characteristics and that's one reason I like it. There's the ritual of filling carts, getting the filler adjusted satisfactorily, putting the device together and settling back for a relaxed vape. One cart lasts about an hour for me and then it's time to repeat the process... Of course you *can* just slap in a cart and puff away like a maniac, but that's not half as much fun.

I see this as a primary reason that if (or when, depending on your outlook) e-cigs and most forms of smokeless tobacco are effectively "snuffed out", pipes may be a suitable fallback for some of us. But please do not inhale. It is not a question of class, but of health. I wore plaid shirts from age 3 to 13, but I still would not inhale pipe tobacco smoke - simply because I prefer breathing to weezing.

I find that using 'real' pipe tobacco helps. Captain Black, Half & Half, and other drug store pipe tobac are fine enough, but they really are just cigarette tobac shredded differently. Hence they tend to encourage inhaling.

The fancy stuff can even be cheaper then the cheap pouches. Where I live a 1.5oz pouch of Captain Black Gold is 7.99, and I just ordered a 2oz tin of C&D hand blended for 8.19. I dare anyone to inhale a quality Burley/Virginia blend. If you don't cough up a lung or two, then you may have much bigger health problems then smoking...

 

[SnarkyClark]

Thanks in advance to any who might feel like taking the time:

1. Do you think (properly) smoking a pipe can be realistic as a more than occasional alternative for a heavy (2+ pack/day) cigarette smoker?

2. Is there any advice anyone would care to offer someone new to pipe smoking: choice of pipe(s), type of tobacco, methods, tips & tricks, etc? Bear in mind your audience is someone who has no experience with pipes, pipe tobacco, or any aspect of using them, knows nothing of the subject, and would rather not make a large investment while he is not certain if he will take to it, or to what extent he might find it satisfying.

3. How do you think the long range total cost compares to other choices?
​

TB can cover this much better then me, but here are my thoughts:

1. Depends on the smoker and the pipe tobac selected. I have some that even when not inhaled will knock you on your but nicotine-wise. But even I still use an e-cig (in the mornings and at lunch).

2. Find a local tobacconist (good tobacco shop). Go in and chat for awhile. That would be my number 1 piece of advice.

3. I have spent about $50 in equip to get into it, and about $16 in supplies that will last me over a month. But then again I'm a cheapskate and we have an old college nearby (re: inexpensive quality pipes), so YMMV.

 

[strayling]

I see this as a primary reason that if (or when, depending on your outlook) e-cigs and most forms of smokeless tobacco are effectively "snuffed out", pipes may be a suitable fallback for some of us. But please do not inhale. It is not a question of class, but of health.

No fear. I know better than to try that after doing it *once* many years ago.