I just ordered some NF organic flavors, peanut butter, Bavarian cream, cookie dough and others. I've been reading about the diacytel that might be present in that stuff. Does anyone vape these flavors? Input please!
Ordered some NF organics and might be a waste
- Thread starter rizzo777
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I use them. I looked into it- NF does not add any diacetyl to the flavorings (this would not allow them to be USDA organic). However, trace amounts of diacetyl are present in the natural flavors. I'm very picky about what I vape- 100% VG (GMO free, USP) and I only use organic flavors. Yet I figure the tiny amounts that are in there can't be all that bad. Eventually I want to move away from them, but they are easy to make good juice out of, so until I get better with the others I'll continue to use them.
Wow got some white stuff gunked up in the bottom part of juice after just 4 days of steeping..diacetyl? The stuff still smells bad..and probably a risk to vape from whatever that crap is. What a waste of $
Yes other of us have had this and as far as I know there has been no one contact the vendor to get a reason and what the heck it is. It is only in some of the flavors too. Maybe we should make a running list of what flavors are doing this and ask the vendor what exactly that is. Someone mentioned just shaking the bottle to redisperse the sediment but I really rather know what is is or avoid it.
This is on Nature's Flavors website:
Disclaimer(s)
Information provided on Naturesflavors.com regarding the use of any products DOES NOT constitute a doctor-patient relationship between you and any person affiliated with Naturesflavors.com. You should not use the information on Naturesflavors.com for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or for prescribing medication or other treatment. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before taking any medication or nutritional, herbal or homeopathic supplement, or adopting any treatment for a health problem. Nature’s Flavours does not support the misuse of our Natural and Organic flavors in electronic cigarettes or other treatment products. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements, or natural and organic products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent disease.
I made one rather important sentence bold and underlined. Some people like the flavors in their e-liquid. I have probably had vendor made juice using their flavors. I have not seen a statement like this from any other company that I have bought DIY supplies from. Natural flavors can still be natural and contain diacetyl. That's OK if you eat it, which is what Nature's Flavors intends their product to be used for. Maybe the amount of diacetyl is so small that it's not important. I am not buying any so I have no real interest in the subject. I do want to find a PG free flavoring that is meant to be vaped. Seriously looking for PG free flavors here!!
Disclaimer(s)
Information provided on Naturesflavors.com regarding the use of any products DOES NOT constitute a doctor-patient relationship between you and any person affiliated with Naturesflavors.com. You should not use the information on Naturesflavors.com for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or for prescribing medication or other treatment. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before taking any medication or nutritional, herbal or homeopathic supplement, or adopting any treatment for a health problem. Nature’s Flavours does not support the misuse of our Natural and Organic flavors in electronic cigarettes or other treatment products. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements, or natural and organic products have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent disease.
I made one rather important sentence bold and underlined. Some people like the flavors in their e-liquid. I have probably had vendor made juice using their flavors. I have not seen a statement like this from any other company that I have bought DIY supplies from. Natural flavors can still be natural and contain diacetyl. That's OK if you eat it, which is what Nature's Flavors intends their product to be used for. Maybe the amount of diacetyl is so small that it's not important. I am not buying any so I have no real interest in the subject. I do want to find a PG free flavoring that is meant to be vaped. Seriously looking for PG free flavors here!!
Hey, I'm not looking to say they are a bad company, I bet their flavors would make my coffee taste great! However, they should have no problems being bashed by the e-cigarette community, since they specifically don't intend their products to be used in vaping.
FYI, this is on The Perfumer's Apprentice website:
^ Inhalation Safety
Inhalation of flavor chemical blends by use of electronic cigarettes
is a popular and more chemically pure alternative to traditional
tobacco smoking. However, please note that this use of our products
is a relatively new practice, and has not been safety-tested by any
official organizations.
The flavor chemical Diacetyl, which has been shown to be dangerous to inhale,
is NOT an ingredient in any of our products. For more information,
please see Perfumer's Apprentice
At least TPA/TFA clearly states that there is no diacetyl in their products. I like that very much, too bad 99% of their flavors contain PG, which I am currently trying to avoid. I could look up the other main flavor makers like FA and LorAnn, but I expect a similar disclaimer if any. I seriously doubt any company would want to say that their flavors are tested safe for inhalation, since vaping itself has not been 'safety-tested by any official organizations'. If it was, the FDA would be recommending e-cigarettes. Vaping itself is a use-at-your-own-risk tobacco alternative. I really wish some big money type like Bill Gates would spend a few million in pocket change on proper testing.
This is strange because something like 3-4 months ago a vaper on another thread actually called them and he said they opened an additional website newportflavors.com just for the vaping audience and that they were very aware of many juice vendors using their flavors etc. Its somewhere on this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/293287-diy-flavoring-thread-part-2-a.html I forgot who posted it now but sometime in January I believe. Maybe they have changed their stance 
I'm considering ordering flavors from them because the prices are absurdly good as long as I don't mind getting 4 or 8 oz of a flavoring I may end up not favoring. I've been trying to get more feedback from vapers on their use of NF flavors though. I bought flavor concentrates from another vendor that included Organic French Vanilla. This developed a white/yellow flaky crust on the inside of the lid within a week or so and I eventually ended up throwing it out for fear of prior contamination. I think it was just natural vanilla crystals, I suppose that flavoring had more alcohol in it than the others perhaps. A year elapsed. Ordered more from same vendor. Same result; but only the French Vanilla, so there wasn't anything wrong with it; I'm vaping it now.
As far as if NF's are vape-"safe", they had for a month and may still have up links on their front page for e-cigarette flavorings specifically. They had not, at last check, populated those pages but the links could still be viewed.
As far as if NF's are vape-"safe", they had for a month and may still have up links on their front page for e-cigarette flavorings specifically. They had not, at last check, populated those pages but the links could still be viewed.
They are stating that diacetyl is not an ingredient- however, ingredients they use may contain natural diacetyl. They would not be required to state diacetyl is an ingredient if this is the case.
I would look for terms like "diacetyl-free," which I have never seen on a flavor.
Some TFA flavorings (last I checked anyway) do contain acetoin, which can... idk, do some chemically thing that molecules do and create trace diacetyl. TFA Vanilla Bean Ice Cream has this chemical... that's the one I know because it is the one I use; there are others.
Some NF do contain diacetyl. Incidentally that is why I like NF so much... but it is only the custard/buttery flavors. Butterscotch, butter rum, caramel cream, and vanilla cream definitely have diacetyl. Bavarian cream sounds like it should contain it, but honestly I have a zealous love for diacetyl and I don't taste any in the BC. Peanut butter and cookie dough miiiiiiiight have it, most likely cookie dough if anything, but I have not tried those. The fruits, florals, and other non-buttery flavors should not contain diacetyl. It is a custard flavor, meant to taste buttery - no butter taste = no diacetyl. Diacetyl has a strong and unique taste: learn what that taste is and you can taste pretty well what does or doesn't have it - it does taste like popcorn butter! So good!
Some NF do contain diacetyl. Incidentally that is why I like NF so much... but it is only the custard/buttery flavors. Butterscotch, butter rum, caramel cream, and vanilla cream definitely have diacetyl. Bavarian cream sounds like it should contain it, but honestly I have a zealous love for diacetyl and I don't taste any in the BC. Peanut butter and cookie dough miiiiiiiight have it, most likely cookie dough if anything, but I have not tried those. The fruits, florals, and other non-buttery flavors should not contain diacetyl. It is a custard flavor, meant to taste buttery - no butter taste = no diacetyl. Diacetyl has a strong and unique taste: learn what that taste is and you can taste pretty well what does or doesn't have it - it does taste like popcorn butter! So good!
Other things:
1) Alcohol base is a different ballgame; smell and immediate taste of flavor is not a good way to judge these... mix them in a VG or PG solution and let steep for a few days. I like to mix, shake, Keep closed for 2 days, then let sit without lids for 2 days.
2) I understand why we vapers might be upset at NF's rejection of us, but I can empathize with the company too. NF ain't no small-time joint; they have been in biz since the 80's and though I don't know exactly what all they do, I know they sell many forms of flavorings and I can buy the coffee/tea stuff in 4 gallon buckets. Like, that is a standard offered size on the website, like plenty of people would obviously need 4 gallons of super-condensed butterscotch flavoring. For what I don't know. Anyway, being this large and established they are probably more wary than most about being directly associated with a new and "possibly dangerous" activity, one that is already frowned upon by plenty of (stupid) people. They don't want bad press, and they DEFINITELY don't want risk of lawsuit if some oaf dies from inhaling butter rum all day (me...?); they will sell to me and other vapers (even many vendors) without hesitation and without asking questions, and that is all I care about. If they want to hedge their bets, that is fine by me as long as I get dat sweet, sweet diacetyl.
1) Alcohol base is a different ballgame; smell and immediate taste of flavor is not a good way to judge these... mix them in a VG or PG solution and let steep for a few days. I like to mix, shake, Keep closed for 2 days, then let sit without lids for 2 days.
2) I understand why we vapers might be upset at NF's rejection of us, but I can empathize with the company too. NF ain't no small-time joint; they have been in biz since the 80's and though I don't know exactly what all they do, I know they sell many forms of flavorings and I can buy the coffee/tea stuff in 4 gallon buckets. Like, that is a standard offered size on the website, like plenty of people would obviously need 4 gallons of super-condensed butterscotch flavoring. For what I don't know. Anyway, being this large and established they are probably more wary than most about being directly associated with a new and "possibly dangerous" activity, one that is already frowned upon by plenty of (stupid) people. They don't want bad press, and they DEFINITELY don't want risk of lawsuit if some oaf dies from inhaling butter rum all day (me...?); they will sell to me and other vapers (even many vendors) without hesitation and without asking questions, and that is all I care about. If they want to hedge their bets, that is fine by me as long as I get dat sweet, sweet diacetyl.
Good point. If any company was actually adding diacetyl to anything that gets cooked around living animals, it would be a serious issue. I have not seen "diacetyl-free" anywhere either but I have seen
"........... .com uses only the highest grade ingredients in our products.
We only purchase certified tested nicotine
**For inhalation safety reasons none of our e-liquids contain Diacetyl"
That is as close as you are going to get. I suppose if you get popcorn lung vaping their juice you might be able to sue them for the couple of grand their company might be worth.
I am not really worried about getting popcorn lung, but if a flavor company knowingly has naturally occurring diacetyl in their products but does not want to label which ones, I would buy from somebody else. Knowing that many E-cig vendors are buying the product that contains diacetyl to use in an electronic cigarette, and deciding to hide a disclaimer away at the end of the FAQ as a CYA tactic is the ugly side of capitalism. I am aware of the proprietary nature of flavor chemistry, but labeling products that contain naturally occurring diacetyl wouldn't be giving away any trade secrets. As a vaper, I find their previous and current stance on this subject to be very rude.
Here is the thing: e-cigs are chump change to NF, they were not created for us, and their market is not us. It is annoying that they initially embraced e-cigs and then walked it back, but whatever. Maybe this happened when the popcorn lung thing initially blew up, idk.
Regardless, logic says for them (and us too) that diacetyl may be dangerous to inhale, and we did not know this initially. Also that we do not know many of the ingredients in flavorings or whether any others are dangerous for inhalation. Perhaps in a year we will find that peach notes are toxic, or in 2 years that strawberry flavoring causes scabies. NF concluded that rather than struggling and being potentially broadsided by these discoveries it was best to disavow inhalation of flavorings entirely, and thus their lives are made much easier and their liability reduced to nil. In truth I would do the same, were I in that position.
More importantly, NF's market is NOT driven by e-cigs, and their products are NOT designed with inhalation in mind. Why would they post warnings!? Many visitors would not stop to read the full text and then conclude "oh this diacetyl is only bad for inhalation so I, flavoring my coffee, am fine." No, many would look once and say "OH NOES A WARNING WHAT IS DIACETYL IT MUST BE POISON I WILL NOT FLAVOR MY COFFEE WITH POISON!" People do not think rationally about these things - it is the same as those folks who say "PG is an ingredient in antifreeze therefore PG will kill you", or "Vaping is the same as smoking because nicotine".
Jack Daniels does not have warnings against putting whiskey in your eyes, or other cavities; though this is dangerous, and though it does work, it is not what their product was designed for. They know it happens, but it is not their business nor their responsibility. NF has no obligation to post inhalation warnings.
Regardless, logic says for them (and us too) that diacetyl may be dangerous to inhale, and we did not know this initially. Also that we do not know many of the ingredients in flavorings or whether any others are dangerous for inhalation. Perhaps in a year we will find that peach notes are toxic, or in 2 years that strawberry flavoring causes scabies. NF concluded that rather than struggling and being potentially broadsided by these discoveries it was best to disavow inhalation of flavorings entirely, and thus their lives are made much easier and their liability reduced to nil. In truth I would do the same, were I in that position.
More importantly, NF's market is NOT driven by e-cigs, and their products are NOT designed with inhalation in mind. Why would they post warnings!? Many visitors would not stop to read the full text and then conclude "oh this diacetyl is only bad for inhalation so I, flavoring my coffee, am fine." No, many would look once and say "OH NOES A WARNING WHAT IS DIACETYL IT MUST BE POISON I WILL NOT FLAVOR MY COFFEE WITH POISON!" People do not think rationally about these things - it is the same as those folks who say "PG is an ingredient in antifreeze therefore PG will kill you", or "Vaping is the same as smoking because nicotine".
Jack Daniels does not have warnings against putting whiskey in your eyes, or other cavities; though this is dangerous, and though it does work, it is not what their product was designed for. They know it happens, but it is not their business nor their responsibility. NF has no obligation to post inhalation warnings.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
