'outside' forum rules

[ApOsTle51]

while the outside forum is a good idea i still think it requires a rule or two.
My understanding behind why that forum was put in place was to enable members to argue the toss between themselves and solve issues publicaly without hiding behind PM's.
As it stands currently and that has shown by recent topics people do tend to side with various trains of thought and gang up on certain individuals. This seems to lead to all out anarchy .

My suggestion is posted here : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/outside/6547-imeothanasis-behaviour-4.html#post107932

I think that only the OP and their target member should only be allowed to post in the specific thread. Preventing further witch-hunts.

thanks,
ApO.

 

[surbitonPete]

It might be worth a try

 

[Oliver]

Thanks Apo, might be an idea - I'll give it some thought. One thing to note though - the outside section does appear to be serving it's stated purpose and keeping the threads free of this sort of thing...

SJ

 

[surbitonPete]

ah yes it couldn't work for things like the lolfest thread.

 

[Oliver]

But I don't see any reason why the lolfest thread can't just be in the general discussion forum?

 

[surbitonPete]

hmm Yes SJ that's true....it is just a harmless general discussion....I guess threads like that don't have to be 'outside'.

 

[nicowolf]

I can't say that I agree with Apostle51. The subject of the original thread in question had been offensive to more than one member. Ganging up never would have happened except that offenses were running rampant and many people felt strongly about the matter. It was actually dying off until it received a reply from the subject. In real life you can't go around bullying people and not expect them to eventually team up and give it back to you. Just my thoughts here. He didn't have to reply, or to continue to reply. His PR problems arise from his attitude and his words and tone when replying to others - not from a few people OUTSIDE commiserating. Go back and read his replies since the forum changed servers - they are meaner than usual and some in other suppliers' threads, little, if any support for anything or anyone but his own product. The last straw for me was his post in the Janty threads. I posted several times before that I had respect for him and his way of cuttiing through the falsehoods. His respect from me - and I am sure others - has declined with each post where he attacked a thread or a poster.

Moral of the story: if you don't want to be ganged up on, don't run around spouting off to everybody in every thread you touch.

 

[surbitonPete]

You have a wise head on your young shoulders Nicowolf.

 

[RjG]

I don't know if limiting threads to two people would solve anything - or if that's even possible with the software.

Other forums use hand slapping - a 24 hr ban, then 3 days, then 7 days, then two weeks for acting like an idiot or getting real excessive... that's very effective in limiting the amount of crap a person will post.

A forum is no different that the rest of society. Even with a free country, free speech and all that jazz, if you stand on a chair in the shopping center and scream obscenities, you'll find yourself out on your ... on the parking lot. Do it again and again, you might end up behind bars for the afternoon.

Freedom is great, but limits are necessary too.

Maybe if Trog got a few wrist slaps in the earlier days, he wouldn't be in the position he's in now, he would have learned to behave ;-) ;-)

Now - step back a bit, and think what if that wasn't a TROG bash thread....

What if it was a GAY bashing thread.

Or a racist thread.

Or a thread bashing Kate, or even you, S.J.

Would anyone be yelling "censorship"? Nope. Outside is great, but it shouldn't be free-for-all, no rules, parking lot brawl either.

Somebody simply has to draw a line and say it's just not acceptable when it gets out of hand, that's all.

Further to that, if someone joins the forum, soley to post 150 messages bashing the crap out of -anyone-, be it black, white, german, gay (or even Trog, deserving or not) a few wrist slaps or a locked thread to shut that down might have been better than letting it go on for close to 40 pages like that.

ALL successful forums lock threads, or delete them when they get insane. That's part of the show, when a forum start getting growing pains like this, it comes with the territory. Otherwise it turns into a crap-fest, and then the long standing, well behaved, knowlegable members start leaving.

You know, a forum keyword search, OR searching the 'net with Google brings up anything posted on here. Forever. Having dirty laundry like that is , well, beyond what I would consider acceptable, personally.

S.J. , all you need to maintain a bit of balance, is an enforcer MOD who is fair, and doesn't mind being hated just a little bit, by less than perfectly behaved members ;-)

 

[lordmage]

yes but ,
SJ is after a forum where the members mod them selfs and dont need a mod to do it for them.
if that was the case i will gladly volunteer for i am on this forum most of my free time even at work just answering questions.
weather i am liked or not is not an issue for me. ECF is a good place to come for information and friendly banter. and there are mods in place who could handle locking a thread but like i said SJ does not want to have to have a cop in place all the time. they do great in ridding spam and i am happy about that. if they want help controlling the forum it would not be free i can tell you that. and there is a code that could be placed on and in all ECF pages to tell google not to cache it so it wont be there forever only the most reacent pages whould show i think google does a weekly cahce of the sites

 

[imeothanasis]

Lets say that a man is ironically, or annoy someone else with any other way. The other man will do something, maybe not. If he does, threads like that will start again and will fill pages.

How to prenent this?

There are people like trog that annoying others, and people like me who respond to this. If MOD moderate this, trogers will say whatever they want and if I (or someone else) try to answer, will be the bad guy or will be closed. The same applies to the other side.

The only answer to that is, trogers stop "trog". No one is crazy enough to start that kind of threads suddenly and with no reason.

Thats my opinion. Any moderation will have no results, exept someone looks 24 hours per day what is happening, and stops threads before get big and annoying.

But I am wondering to this. If you want to write something about e-cigs why dont you write it and stop to this?
Must you say and all the other things?
If you "love" this place like some people says, then make your questions and place your answers without the other stuff.

If we stick to e-cigs conversation and to jokes to the OUTSIDE, we all be happy.

 

[ApOsTle51]

I can't say that I agree with Apostle51. The subject of the original thread in question had been offensive to more than one member. .

Which is why i mentioned that if you as an individual have a problem with another member then to start your own thread with them.

It's just an idea and I'm sure Joe and the mods will discuss it's pro's and con's but i just feel the outside forum is not being used as originally intended, that is for members to gang up and attack an individual and a supplier/manufacturer at that.
Don't get me wrong i'm certainly not a "Trogger" , he makes a great device but i agree he has a sharp tongue. I don't take "sides" i havent stuck up for Trog or Kate or anyone else for that matter so please no labels here.

Can you imagine the uproar if that thread was about Janty or Wicked . Ludo got a taste of peoples feelings on a thread or two and has jumped ship to another forum for most of Janty's issues now.
Threads like that carry on then I feel there will be alot more Users or even suppliers finding other outlets.

Still, the ideas there it's up to the boss man what he decides to do with it.

 

[Oliver]

Well, it is a tough one - Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people that have offered their moderating services, I just haven't felt the need for any more moderating.

As for the temporary banning, Trog was once banned for a week! Not sure it made any difference and, actually, I can't even remember why it was...

I regret doing it now, but I do remember that I'd had enough at the time. My personal preference is not to ban anyone, unless they are racist, libelous or threatening.

The reason for this is quite simple - yes, I do have a responsibility as the admin here, but apart from that what extra insight, what higher intellectual gifts, what powers of arbitrage beyond the mod button do I possess?

None. It's that simple really.

We have here, a bunch of adults who come to the board for a variety of reasons. Most people who engage, or even just browse, are capable of making their minds up about the rights and wrongs of a situation. If someone is being a troll, most people know this.
If someone is being a bully it's pretty obvious.

I view forums as occupying a weird space between "conversation" and published letter writing. When it comes to moderating, you have to consider how you might behave in both instances - in a heated conversation, you might intervene to calm things down, or you might take a side; you're unlikely to tell those involved to stop having the conversation.

In published letter writing, as the "publisher" your responsibilities are extra - you have to keep it lawful, and you have to allow a fair exchange.

This is the basis of my attitude to running the forum.

As for it happening to others - Janty, gays, racial groups - I take it on a case by case basis.

If someone attacks gays for their sexual identity - it's because that person is prejudiced. There's nothing gays have done to reap the opprobrium. Same with racial groups.

If someone attacks a supplier - there's any number of reasons it could have happened. It could, actually, be the fault of the supplier! It could be a troll. It could be a disgruntled customer. There's many potential reasons, but again, most people will see the rights and wrongs of the "attack" without a moderator needing to apply judgment.

In sum - I take a laisser faire attitude. Not, as Trog claims, because I don't care, or whatever else he says, but because I believe this is the right way to do things.

 

[surbitonPete]

I really like the way you put that SJ...

 

[Kate]

Yes, I thought it was very well put. I really respect the way you run things here SmokeyJoe. As you say, illegal, offensive or threatening behaviour are the biggest problems.

If I come across any of these issues in posts - 'racist, libellous or threatening' I think I'll probably report the post in future rather than challenge.

All societies have ways of dealing with 'criminals' - prison, excommunication, deportation, sending to coventry, whatever.

Rules of etiquette are important, should be encouraged and understood. They should be as simple and few as possible in my view and enforcement should be consistent for breaches by anyone.

Thanks again for a great forum SJ.

 

[imeothanasis]

Every one in Greece is president. If you are in a public place and scream "president", 10 people will turn. No more presidents please, its better to have trogers than presidents. As Mod said, we know how to deal with these. If moderation starts, it never ends, it will apply in more and more things. Someone will say that the SJ moderate him and don't mod others and so on......

If someone feels that he is attacted too hard, he can ask the Mod to close the thread and Mod will deside (like real life in courts). Not likedictatorship where there are not courts and one man desides for everyone and whenever he wants, without asking or talking the subject.

And Kate, I think my cigar in my avatar is same good as yours, dont you think?

 

[smokum]

The "Outside" forum is just a different name for the millions of other same type "Smack" forums within a topic forum.

The only difference I see with this one is the lack of needing to sign up for that particular forum which usually contains a disclosure of (more or less) it not being for those that are sensitive to abuse or personal attacks.

In agreeing to its access and use you understand that all Local, Federal, and Internation laws apply to content, and behaviour which subject/allow the website administration the capability to report unlawful conduct, along with the logged content, to authorities as deemed necessary. (Agreement is usually in the form of a "checkbox" that the rules and its content has been understood in signing up for "that" forum).

Doing this, it (as SJ's intent), attempts to keep the "garbage" off the main forum requiring constant thread moderation, locks, deletions, and bannings that lead to member dissatisfaction and poor website portrayal.

As well, there is at no time anything stopping a participant, as it is anywhere within other forums, or the internet on the whole for that matter, from logging and taking apropreit (legal or otherwise), action should the infraction deem it necessary.

I personally really don't understand the need to be constantly fighting (or whining) about anothers behaviour when a person has a choice of simply hitting the backbutton and staying the hell out of whats irritating them.

Were supposed to be adults here from all walks of life, beliefs, and lifestyle choices. And I find it sometimes humorous, but most times downright vindictive, yet I have a choice of either participating in that banter, turn a blind eye and move on, or seek a legal injunction.

You will always have someone who dissagrees, missinterprets, or gets personally offended with any online discussion. The only differnce here is being that its not a face to face confrontation that can be dealt with "the ole fashion way", and normally one on one between the initial affected persons, while online it leads to the ganging up of supporters and/or antagonists who feel there is no reprecussions for offensive behaviour with being a keyboard cowboy.

Now, recess is over...... BACK TO CLASS !!!!

VapeOn,
Greg

 

[imeothanasis]

"I personally really don't understand the need to be constantly fighting (or whining) about anothers behaviour when a person has a choice of simply hitting the backbutton and staying the hell out of whats irritating them."


Because we care.

We are not individualists and try to prevent things before they come in front of our door.

Cowboys sometimes change the history. The history is full of them, people needs them. Old days we had Achilles and Odysseus, now are stalone, swartz and lately the keyboards cowboys.

 

[trog100]

folks must like garbage.. the trog bashing thread got 7323 reads in a very short space of time..

now i have a simple request.. a simple pol vote... in the forum i have always used the most.... the one that gets the most reads


option 1.. trog is a okay.. he has contributed well to this forum over the past months..


option 2.. trog is a not okay.. he has not contributed well to this forum over the past months..

option 3.. i dont know because i aint been around long enough to know..

option 4... i dont give a sh-t..

now who is gonna put it up... this crap has gone far enough.. lets see some real votes... anonymous will do..

ApOsTle51 how about you... ??

if it dosnt go up i would suggest most of you shut the f-ck up.. most of you have not been around long enough to know...

trog

 

[surbitonPete]

I guess the interesting thing about the 'Trog bashing' thread was that there was virtually no trog bashing going on anyway....it basicaly became just a nonsense fun 'chat' thread...with very little to do with the starting post......and as far as I can see it must have got far more people interested in the SD than doing the opposite.