Oye, Bone to pick with it all
- Thread starter BlkWolfMidnight
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Doesn't Matter doesn't matter because we live in a Universe where matter matters and in the end it's all about that bass anyway!
I can agree with you on all points listed
Campfire vape, could be a great undertone for S'mores flavoring....just a thought.
And now for #3 I have a gem for you
{MODERATED}
yup, glad to make ya smile...I'm off to the grease pit they call McDonalds.
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Part of that has a thread of truth in it, I can fully understand attempting to source "Inexpensive Gear" as myself I'm totally broke and appreciate the help to its fullest, but as a rule to make funds of those referals (referal links) and then bolster about how much you have gained from the community is just being..well yah.
To find a place like ECF that don't allow this to happen kind of puts some folks off, I understand if that is your income and way of life then yes, it may too upset me but as governed by a rule set put forth upon signing up those that are upset need to either move on or find another place to conduct business as it were. Some did that but not without taking the time to as it were bash the other side that they left.
I am reminded of life as through the looking glass, though we as community members can handle the inner little squabbles that we face the outside world is looking in on this whole thing and I'm more then sure it is causing issues. The opinion of the masses will dictate the future of vaping as a whole, I really don't want to see this go to the opinion of a community go in to the negative by the masses as this would have drastic impacts.
I myself could source deals and steals in a min, post them on a blog and without issue do the same... I wouldn't though take kick backs from said deals and then bolster about them at all, in fact I wouldn't take money from the community and request that it be put back towards those purchasing the items as they need it more then I. Maybe I'm a bit old fashion in my thinking but I work hard at a 40 hour a week job and understand the pain of having to pinch pennies to run a household and life.
Understand that news spreads fast, I'm more then sure my name and those that know me are in doubt I would even start a thread like I have, and I'm more then sure that I'll take irreversible damage from the wake of this however it had to be put out there. Too long has such things gone under the radar and too long has these battles taken place only to harbor negative feelings in so many who are afraid to speak out due to recourse. The folks on ECF are just and fair, good people in my book and I doubt they will care either way about my words on this thread however I do know the others very well and I can say without any doubt there will be a many fires lit by this.
I've kept this to myself pretty much 7 years now, looking from every angle and seeing what is to see in the process I've come to this conclusion. I love vaping as it has kept me off Cig's, I have great friends in the community and watch the turmoil and fights tirelessly drag on with the FDA and Government yet we as a whole meet the new day with renewed hope and joy. Limits are those set forth by yourself and others is this not true, if so then what happens when others step in the way of that do we bow down and take it as such. By no means is this a personal grudge match or even close to it before anyone see it as such as there are many that have taken the pathway as described above, I will not name sites or forums here but they are not hard to find.
I remember a time when deals were passed on in a room sitting around vaping and talking about the latest hardware, I can recall the enjoyment of sharing stories, tips and tricks with others or just plain old shooting the (censored) with everyone. I find less of that these days anymore and more along the lines of "Did you catch such and such show last night" or " did you check such and such website for that awesome deal"
Just a thought
I have been a member of about a dozen forums with dedication since 2000. Extremely varied topics. Commonality? They are all forums. Not blogs, not chat rooms, they were forums.
This particular kind of thread has popped up in every one of them, sometimes authored by me (well, at least once). I call it Forum Long Timer's Syndrome (FLTS).
"So long have I personally toiled with great personal sacrifice, that I alone may see this sapling in utter obscurity grow into the mighty oak of....." blah blah blah. "For surely, I have taught God Himself how to plant a tree and see it to its' fruition, all so ye may..." again, blah blah blah.......
You may very well need a vacation from the Internet. Honestly. I noticed one thing you posted early on in this. "We are all in this for the same reason". BAM. Therein lies the cause for your unhappiness. We are NOT all in this 'for the same reason'. There are many very different reasons. From simple curiosity, to wanting to quit smoking, to wanting to know how to build a .001 ohm build so they can chuck competition clouds at the vape shop, to embarking on a long journey. We, as a group are a niche. And to further complicate matters, there are niches within the niche. Then, there are divisions among them.
So, to think we need a Braveheart riding up and down the forums in war paint shouting at the top of his lungs to " unite us", is quite frankly a foolish idea. We have so many forums and subforums, and sub-subforums here for precisely that reason. We are NOT all here for the same reason. For some, it isn't even about vaping. It's about being on the bandwagon.
From what I read from the OP, is thathe is very jealous that a YouTuber is getting free stuff and they are not, despite the blood and tears they have sacrificed for the industry. He/she cannot handle the fact that the human race as a whole is made up of diverse individuals, and when a group of them come together, cliques develop. That maybe the YouTuber has popularity and advertisers (and more importantly, an audience).....whereas their library of textbook writings on the absolutely fascinating topic of nothing in absolute scientific clarity doesn't garner the same props. Sorry. The Beatles were always more popular than Newton. Even if they knew nothing in comparison. Get over it. Cry a good cry in your soy latte and get over it.
But, I have neither the post count, nor the membership time in to say poo. Perhaps this is part of this vaguely referenced "rung system"? Who knows - I really don't have the clout to comment.
So flame me if you will, but this is classic FLTS, and I suspect if there isn't enough shoe-kissing, this post will be followed up by an " I'm leaving cause things change too much" post. Also absolutely typical of any Forum.
This particular kind of thread has popped up in every one of them, sometimes authored by me (well, at least once). I call it Forum Long Timer's Syndrome (FLTS).
"So long have I personally toiled with great personal sacrifice, that I alone may see this sapling in utter obscurity grow into the mighty oak of....." blah blah blah. "For surely, I have taught God Himself how to plant a tree and see it to its' fruition, all so ye may..." again, blah blah blah.......
You may very well need a vacation from the Internet. Honestly. I noticed one thing you posted early on in this. "We are all in this for the same reason". BAM. Therein lies the cause for your unhappiness. We are NOT all in this 'for the same reason'. There are many very different reasons. From simple curiosity, to wanting to quit smoking, to wanting to know how to build a .001 ohm build so they can chuck competition clouds at the vape shop, to embarking on a long journey. We, as a group are a niche. And to further complicate matters, there are niches within the niche. Then, there are divisions among them.
So, to think we need a Braveheart riding up and down the forums in war paint shouting at the top of his lungs to " unite us", is quite frankly a foolish idea. We have so many forums and subforums, and sub-subforums here for precisely that reason. We are NOT all here for the same reason. For some, it isn't even about vaping. It's about being on the bandwagon.
From what I read from the OP, is that
But, I have neither the post count, nor the membership time in to say poo. Perhaps this is part of this vaguely referenced "rung system"? Who knows - I really don't have the clout to comment.
So flame me if you will, but this is classic FLTS, and I suspect if there isn't enough shoe-kissing, this post will be followed up by an " I'm leaving cause things change too much" post. Also absolutely typical of any Forum.
OMG. Mind blown. GF is going to freak!
I can't believe that I've never seen that. Dude, I was cryin'. HI-larious... "fit's well in the hand..."
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I shall apologize to the MOD's in advance for what is below,
Actually, I wouldn't give anyone with such a diverse splendid understanding of my social delima the satisfaction of the "I'm leaving post"
As for my "Braveheart" complex as you say it personally I don't have a mission to unite everyone, just bring forth the understanding that we (as in those in forums and such) are not the only on lookers and others will catch on just as quickly to what is going on if not faster then me. I worry not for you or anyone that has a clear understanding of their reason for vaping but I do worry for those coming in to it seeing this as you called it a clique or niche thing. Not everyone is born to mingle with the popular kids and some feel even threatened by them.
I don't care that they get anything for free, I guess understanding of "Greasing the wheels" of business is nothing that can be hidden however freely gotten can be freely shared without the need to brag about it, If you missed the point of it all those that throw their weight around without even a shard of understanding of how it may impact others is ignorant at best.
I have been on here long, I have taken a break from ECF because I was out helping people in the world. Running vape meets and raising community awareness as I could and I had the free time to do so. The ideals of a great community to be involved in and a welcoming environment that will assist new folks to transition is what this is about. I do say that Community exists on many levels and not just forums, visit your local B&M shop to confirm that.
I hate lattes and I can't afford them anyhow, if nothing else your post Twall just confirmed one thing, there are folks that will stop by and not understand the meaning behind this thread and as mentioned before, I expect the backlash so let it be so.
Vacation will have to wait, I've still got plenty to do and plenty of advice to offer to the new folks. besides I've got no days off because offering assistance to folks doesn't come with sick days or paid holidays either. I'll ready your horse to ride off on if you like, but to this means I do say that I bid you a good day
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I seriously don't know how they kept a straight face, I'd not made it 5 min before having to step off to the side. I noticed how they pulled every reference they could out of the book to "Describe" the mod without actually saying the name of it. That is a priceless moment I'd say... Two thumbs up (and more if I had them) to those two.
I had seen this before and those guys should be on tv. Or at least find a funny man to play with their straight man routine. They'd make internet $$.
May well end up a vaping review 'classic'...
Aw, c'mon, cant we at least have enough of a hint to google it, please?
Responding directly to the OP. I have no idea what exactly sparked this and feel I'm missing a general context, and perhaps because of that I will not give an adequate response or even manage to hit the topic directly. However I will respond to the general theme of the OP which seems to be focusing on "celebrities" in the vaping community, their impact, and their necessity (or lack thereof) .
First, I would say celebrities emerging for the vaping community is inevitable. The reasons being:
1. Humans in general are tinkerers, and in general are social. However people today, unlike any time in history beforehand, have two things previous generations did not, google and social media. If you name it, I can google guide on how to take it apart, build it, synthesize it, refine it, outsource it, and so on. The internet has made people these days more able to tinker than ever before. Then you add social media, and people are able to connect, talk about tinkering, and create communities around what they like to tinker with.
2. Younger folks are more apt to pick this up and spread it like wildfire. Not gonna knock on my elders, and I know plenty of them are active and important members of the community. (Note: Seriously I am not underplaying or undervaluing the contributions of older folks to the vaping community. In this entire post I am merely highlighting the type of culture and contributions that are more likely to come from younger folks. I know this is a generalization, and how limited that is. ) However you cannot deny how much impact the younger end of the community have had in spreading the word about ecigs. My father, grandmother, aunts, and uncles, wouldn't have ever even thought about an ecig if it weren't for me. All they knew about them was the cigalikes at gas stations they didn't trust and uncertainty from the mainstream media. I've known several cases like this, where the younger generation (early 20s-mid 30s) introduces ecigs to their elders.
3. When you combine younger people who all have one thing in common (vaping) and social media, you are going to get communities of all sorts. Facebook groups, forums, tutorials, several small startups out of a garage, and so on.
4. Because there are communities online, tons of young people contributing and engaging in it, tinkering with the equipment, and discussing, you are going to eventually get people posting tutorial videos.
5. Eventually certain people will get popular. When they do, they will take one of a few routes. They will either continue to make videos at their own pace, decide they cannot keep up and bow out, or they will see an opportunity and attempt to make a lifestyle/career out of it. Your celebrities are the latter category.
This is an eventuality. It was unavoidable. With cigarettes it didn't happen because smoking was just something you did. You bought cigs, a lighter, and smoked. Despite this, there are entire forums dedicated to tobacco. Usually it is pipe tobacco/cigars, but they exist. The celebrity aspect is just far more subdued or nonexistent, because those communities were mostly for older people, an older culture, and didn't require constant reviews/tutorials to keep up with ever changing equipment.
Just look at Rip Trippers for a second. Easily a very controversial personality. People either love him or hate him. I'm not an avid fan, though I do occasionally watch some of his videos if they catch my interest. If you look at his first videos, even to this day with all his popularity, many of his early videos only have a few thousand views, and a handful of comments. If you watch them, he's pretty much a guy that appears to be in his bedroom/dining room with dim lights and a meh attitude talking about vape hardware. Eventually he makes a few videos that take off. People start sharing/recommending him, and you can see a steep increase in his viewership, and he slowly takes on more of a stage persona. You can't tell me he planned for it, planned to be as popular as he currently is, planned to make his own ejuice line, and so on, way back when he started. He's not the only example like this. And while I'm sure the money/hardware they receive for free to review products is nice, and influences them; I'm not entirely certain you can convince me that they are doing this entirely out of an evil capitalist egocentric push for more, instead of them pushing for more for the sake of doing more. They do more videos, better quality, to get more views, to get more money, so they can do more, and so on. It's a feedback loop that is basic for any business. In every industry that has ever existed this has been a pattern. Dude starts a shop, it becomes successful, he opens another one elsewhere, and then another, and another. Soon you have Wal-Mart or another large scale company. Is money the main goal? Yes. Did they start to purposefully hurt anyone? No. Do they think they are offering a service and benefiting communities? Usually.
To end this massive wall of text, the rise of vaping celebs may have not been necessary, but they were an unavoidable eventuality when you consider today's internet culture and youth obsession with tinkering and gadgetry. Further, if a future where smoking is nearly non-existent and Big Tobacco isn't the market crushing juggernaut it currently is, then not only were vaping celebrities an eventuality, but they are necessary. When I was a complete noob, being able to watch tutorials where the video had 400k+ views, thousands upon thousands of likes, and plenty of comments commending the methods in the video, was a very comforting experience. It made things like DIY/Rebuildables accessible because I could not only see that it could be done, but I had a sense of assurance that came with massive views and likes. It sounds silly, but its true. Seeing massive community approval around an individual gives a level comfort, just like seeing tons of positive reviews comforts you when making a purchase on ebay or amazon.
Lastly (I promise) I can't help but get a hipster vibe off this. As though lamenting vaping going mainstream. However I cannot see vaping as becoming a successful endeavor while remaining an underground thing. Because of this, dealing with the FDA, Government, the Public Eye, Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and all other groups opposed to vaping, was inevitable if it was ever to be a success, just as vaping celebrities were inevitable. While I understand the disgust or depression that comes with certain elements entering the community as it goes mainstream, it unfortunately cannot be helped. The only solution to this is self policing. As for forum/social clique drama, I haven't experienced or seen it. So I cannot comment. I once again apologize for the wall of text. I seriously need to learn how to type less.
First, I would say celebrities emerging for the vaping community is inevitable. The reasons being:
1. Humans in general are tinkerers, and in general are social. However people today, unlike any time in history beforehand, have two things previous generations did not, google and social media. If you name it, I can google guide on how to take it apart, build it, synthesize it, refine it, outsource it, and so on. The internet has made people these days more able to tinker than ever before. Then you add social media, and people are able to connect, talk about tinkering, and create communities around what they like to tinker with.
2. Younger folks are more apt to pick this up and spread it like wildfire. Not gonna knock on my elders, and I know plenty of them are active and important members of the community. (Note: Seriously I am not underplaying or undervaluing the contributions of older folks to the vaping community. In this entire post I am merely highlighting the type of culture and contributions that are more likely to come from younger folks. I know this is a generalization, and how limited that is. ) However you cannot deny how much impact the younger end of the community have had in spreading the word about ecigs. My father, grandmother, aunts, and uncles, wouldn't have ever even thought about an ecig if it weren't for me. All they knew about them was the cigalikes at gas stations they didn't trust and uncertainty from the mainstream media. I've known several cases like this, where the younger generation (early 20s-mid 30s) introduces ecigs to their elders.
3. When you combine younger people who all have one thing in common (vaping) and social media, you are going to get communities of all sorts. Facebook groups, forums, tutorials, several small startups out of a garage, and so on.
4. Because there are communities online, tons of young people contributing and engaging in it, tinkering with the equipment, and discussing, you are going to eventually get people posting tutorial videos.
5. Eventually certain people will get popular. When they do, they will take one of a few routes. They will either continue to make videos at their own pace, decide they cannot keep up and bow out, or they will see an opportunity and attempt to make a lifestyle/career out of it. Your celebrities are the latter category.
This is an eventuality. It was unavoidable. With cigarettes it didn't happen because smoking was just something you did. You bought cigs, a lighter, and smoked. Despite this, there are entire forums dedicated to tobacco. Usually it is pipe tobacco/cigars, but they exist. The celebrity aspect is just far more subdued or nonexistent, because those communities were mostly for older people, an older culture, and didn't require constant reviews/tutorials to keep up with ever changing equipment.
Just look at Rip Trippers for a second. Easily a very controversial personality. People either love him or hate him. I'm not an avid fan, though I do occasionally watch some of his videos if they catch my interest. If you look at his first videos, even to this day with all his popularity, many of his early videos only have a few thousand views, and a handful of comments. If you watch them, he's pretty much a guy that appears to be in his bedroom/dining room with dim lights and a meh attitude talking about vape hardware. Eventually he makes a few videos that take off. People start sharing/recommending him, and you can see a steep increase in his viewership, and he slowly takes on more of a stage persona. You can't tell me he planned for it, planned to be as popular as he currently is, planned to make his own ejuice line, and so on, way back when he started. He's not the only example like this. And while I'm sure the money/hardware they receive for free to review products is nice, and influences them; I'm not entirely certain you can convince me that they are doing this entirely out of an evil capitalist egocentric push for more, instead of them pushing for more for the sake of doing more. They do more videos, better quality, to get more views, to get more money, so they can do more, and so on. It's a feedback loop that is basic for any business. In every industry that has ever existed this has been a pattern. Dude starts a shop, it becomes successful, he opens another one elsewhere, and then another, and another. Soon you have Wal-Mart or another large scale company. Is money the main goal? Yes. Did they start to purposefully hurt anyone? No. Do they think they are offering a service and benefiting communities? Usually.
To end this massive wall of text, the rise of vaping celebs may have not been necessary, but they were an unavoidable eventuality when you consider today's internet culture and youth obsession with tinkering and gadgetry. Further, if a future where smoking is nearly non-existent and Big Tobacco isn't the market crushing juggernaut it currently is, then not only were vaping celebrities an eventuality, but they are necessary. When I was a complete noob, being able to watch tutorials where the video had 400k+ views, thousands upon thousands of likes, and plenty of comments commending the methods in the video, was a very comforting experience. It made things like DIY/Rebuildables accessible because I could not only see that it could be done, but I had a sense of assurance that came with massive views and likes. It sounds silly, but its true. Seeing massive community approval around an individual gives a level comfort, just like seeing tons of positive reviews comforts you when making a purchase on ebay or amazon.
Lastly (I promise) I can't help but get a hipster vibe off this. As though lamenting vaping going mainstream. However I cannot see vaping as becoming a successful endeavor while remaining an underground thing. Because of this, dealing with the FDA, Government, the Public Eye, Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and all other groups opposed to vaping, was inevitable if it was ever to be a success, just as vaping celebrities were inevitable. While I understand the disgust or depression that comes with certain elements entering the community as it goes mainstream, it unfortunately cannot be helped. The only solution to this is self policing. As for forum/social clique drama, I haven't experienced or seen it. So I cannot comment. I once again apologize for the wall of text. I seriously need to learn how to type less.
Everyone's perception is different. There is no intonation in posts. Anger can sound a lot like humor. I think it all depends on what you are here for. If you're here for learning, support, friendships, talking vape because their are few outside this forum to talk vape with. People who start out with questions and stick around to help educate and support people. If you don't like someone's posts, just skip over them. I personally read negative posts and arguments as free entertainment.
EDIT!! Wrong video sorry. No clue now
I have the link to the original video, not sure which one you dropped out but either way I have the one I posted on book mark for youtube when I need a bit of interject humor.
What can I cay, that video just grows on ya...(pun intended)
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