Pennsylvania Tax?

[stols001]

I think there are folks who are fearful of DIY, although I agree with you that *I* found it easy right out of the gate, but there are going to be vapers who might never want to overcome that hurdle, or those who prefer complicated juices such as NETs (which I assume I will be learning about since the husband likes them) where it's sometimes easier to purchase, and etc.

I was nervous about DIY... Until I did it. But really, at the time deeming pushed me into it.... That is one thing I am grateful for with the former 2018 date and what sounded horrid as far as vaping. But not everyone is in that situation, and I LOVE to cook, so it was easier. And we still don't have much idea of what will be happening yet....

Anna

 

[ScottP]

I do agree with most of this but it seem to me like in this fast paced world we find ourselves living in there are those that actually can't cook.

There is a HUGE difference between "can't" and "won't".

 

[stols001]

I learned to cook for my big family while my mom was in the hospital a long time and I was the oldest daughter at 11. LOL, my mom did openly announce that one reason she had kids was they would one day "help out" with the chores, so I had some experience, but most of it I just picked up as I went.

My biggest problem as an adult was portion sizing. Yep, I do believe anyone can learn to cook, even without the "aid" of "Blue Apron" and various other subscription services. You are either raised in a home that teaches you to cook which makes things easier, or you know, once you can read, there are these magical things called "cookbooks" or even "recipes.com ad infinitum."

I can't believe that subscription services want to take away the joy of planning, shopping, experimenting, and charging you for the joy of preselected meals and step by step instructions, but that seems to be where our society has headed. I will admit that I have looked to see if amazon delivers food to my location, but really, shopping for food is such a basic part of my life that I just can't imagine doing it otherwise... Maybe one day if I make it to "elderly enough for a walker" status, but for you young'uns using Blue Apron? Well, at least you are "cooking."

Anna

 

[Bonskibon]

I personally like store bought juice. I do DIY sometimes, but not a lot at the moment. If I had to do it all the time I would, but don't feel I need to now. That's just me.

 

[Str8vision]

As of a year ago (Jan. 2017), 1 in 5 states within the U.S. had successfully passed special vape taxes with Minnesota's 95% wholesale tax being the highest...so far. Joining in on the feeding frenzy many cities passed local vape taxes with Chicago's $0.55 per ml tax on juice being the highest...so far. Additionally, other states passed highly restrictive laws including face-to-face purchase requirements, a major PITA especially for those living in rural areas (like most of Arkansas and Utah). If/When the ridiculous cost of FDA compliance kicks in, combined with state and local taxes, vaping could easily become more expensive than smoking for many people.

During the past four years the majority of states in the U.S. tried to impose special taxes and/or restrictions on vaping. Those that failed simply continue trying year after year and will until they finally succeed, for most of us it's just a matter of time. Once passed, every few years thereafter they'll push to raise the rates just like they did (and still do) with cigarettes and alcohol.

Wholesale taxes have become an increasingly popular revenue vehicle among state legislators because the tax is paid by the vendor/manufacturer and is "hidden" in the product's retail price. It's just like the massive MSA payments tobacco companies must pay states. By and large the general public is completely unaware of this "hidden" fee because it's paid by the manufacturer and factored into the product's retail price similar to the $1.01 per pack the feds get. Same thing will happen with e-juice, the majority of the purchase price will eventually be taxes, fees and the cost of FDA compliance. The good news is the government moves in slow motion. It will be many years before most vapers feel the full impact of their government's latest extortion schemes.

All I know for sure is I am so glad I make my own e-liquid, am stocked up with a lifetime of DIY ingredients and if necessary can vape for the rest of my life without having to buy any more battery holders. The looking for their next gravy train can do their baddest and it isn't going to affect me in the least. That doesn't mean I will stop fighting for those that haven't prepared yet though.

Some observant people saw this train wreck coming long ago and prepared accordingly, most haven't. It's like the story "The ant and the Grasshopper", and on this occasion (like you) I've opted to be the ant. As a result I enjoy complete immunity from vape taxes, fees, the future cost of FDA compliance and potential restrictions like face-to-face purchase requirements. I vape NETs exclusively and my costs ($0.03 per ml) are locked in for life. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing to have and in this case it's easy to obtain. I still buy whatever catches my eye and will continue doing so until I no longer can (customs) or it becomes cost prohibitive (taxes). The important thing is I don't really "need" to buy anything else, I'm set for the long haul.

 

[Ralph_K]

When people have had enough they have the power to change it. When it starts costing the state more than the tax they will reevaluate.

 

[Stoneface]

When people have had enough they have the power to change it. When it starts costing the state more than the tax they will reevaluate.

Given the number of anti-vaping laws passed in just the last few years, including the laws mandating taxes, it looks to me like there aren't enough people voting with a pro-vaping mind. I don't expect that to change any time soon with the momentum already in play compounded with misinformation being spread at the same time.

 

[Beamslider]

Given the number of anti-vaping laws passed in just the last few years, including the laws mandating taxes, it looks to me like there aren't enough people voting with a pro-vaping mind. I don't expect that to change any time soon with the momentum already in play compounded with misinformation being spread at the same time.

The problem is that just like they passed it in California to tax it on the wholesale level they can do it in other states with ballot measures too.

Here it was a ballot measure passed by voters. They put it on the ballot, touted it as saving the children and stated the money collected would go to healthcare for children. The pawned it off as a sin tax that would benefit children. The voters as they tend to do fell for it.

 

[Stoneface]

The problem is that just like they passed it in California to tax it on the wholesale level they can do it in other states with ballot measures too.

Here it was a ballot measure passed by voters. They put it on the ballot, touted it as saving the children and stated the money collected would go to healthcare for children. The pawned it off as a sin tax that would benefit children. The voters as they tend to do fell for it.

And I will question whether or not those collected taxes will actually pay for children's health, or just maybe those taxes will end up in the general fund...most taxpayers who don't vape will not think about where that money went in a year.

I consider lawmakers using scare tactics hiding behind "the children" to be spreading misinformation, partially because they refuse to recognize the benefits of vaping while only citing the drawbacks.

 

[zoiDman]

... When it starts costing the state more than the tax they will reevaluate.

Maybe that is True where you live.

But My Experience has been when a Tax starts to create Diminishing Return, instead of a State Relaxing or Repealing the Tax, they just look for something New to Tax.

 

[Rossum]

PA is a nice place, but they really are starting to rival NY in taxation

Yes, we have an outrageous 40% tax on vape-stuff (on the wholesale cost if the purchase is in-state, on retail if it's from out-of-state). But in terms of overall tax burden, PA doesn't even come close to NY.

 

[CMD-Ky]

It seems vaping is now nearly a civic duty, for the children, I must vape.

The problem is that just like they passed it in California to tax it on the wholesale level they can do it in other states with ballot measures too.

Here it was a ballot measure passed by voters. They put it on the ballot, touted it as saving the children and stated the money collected would go to healthcare for children. The pawned it off as a sin tax that would benefit children. The voters as they tend to do fell for it.

 

[Rossum]

The problem is that just like they passed it in California to tax it on the wholesale level they can do it in other states with ballot measures too.

Here it was a ballot measure passed by voters. They put it on the ballot, touted it as saving the children and stated the money collected would go to healthcare for children. The pawned it off as a sin tax that would benefit children. The voters as they tend to do fell for it.

Most states don't require ballot measures for tax increases like this. But vape taxes are easy to pass no matter whether they go before the voters or their "representatives" in a legislature because such taxes only affect a single-digit percentage of the population.

 

[CMD-Ky]

It is the divide and conquer method of fiscal irresponsibility. Cut out small groups, tax the hell out of them and the folks don't even know what's happening. One day, they will be on the block and never saw it coming.

Most states don't require ballot measures for tax increases like this. But vape taxes are easy to pass no matter whether they go before the voters or their "representatives" in a legislature because such taxes only affect a single-digit percentage of the population.

 

[Letitia]

When people have had enough they have the power to change it. When it starts costing the state more than the tax they will reevaluate.

No they will just complain about it. Apathy is our enemy.

 

[Rossum]

It is the divide and conquer method of fiscal irresponsibility. Cut out small groups, tax the hell out of them and the folks don't even know what's happening. One day, they will be on the block and never saw it coming.

Right. If the "representatives" vote to increase everyone's taxes at the same time, enough people get pee'd off that those representatives are quite likely not to get re-elected, and a ballot measure to increase everyone's taxes is unlikely to pass. We saw this in PA when our current governor wanted to increase the income tax (which is constitutionally mandated to be a flat tax, the current rate being 3.07%) and the sales tax. The people said: "No way, Mr. Wolf!"

But if you propose to tax those dirty, stinking smokers (15-20% of the population), or the the vapers (probably less than 5% of the population), then there simply won't be enough opposition to matter.

 

[stols001]

True, the groups under attack get taxed heavily, if they can't be rode out of town tarred and feathered... (This is a bit harder to do with vaping, as it's already connected to Big Tobacco and there are too many vapers/smokers).

For some of our "newest" industries, I am losing some hope, but doing what I *can* there as well.

I am so far past the idea of prohibition, or even tax-ibition, for so many things. I can't list them, but I guess it is the normal course of society for these things to expand and shrink, but I really wish that every single cent spent toward prohibition instead of at least regulation would be spent on other, more fruitful pursuits. We have the "infrastructure" war, the "economy" war, the "inflation (lies)" to worry about, not to mention the "poverty and homelessness war."

I'm not against having a military and having it be an EXCELLENT one, but there are many so called "wars" I could do without, including the war on "terrorism." That's not something that can really be fought the way this country attempts to, further destabilization always takes place, and it is just costing us money and lives. There are times I wish the dang US would just not war on EVERYTHING.

I think it was George Washington who gave the first warning on the dangers of the two party system (my kid told me that one, I didn't get here in time for all US history/civics) but that is also something I dislike, if there is only one opponent, the rhetoric gets so fierce and people think they can't work together. A few more parties with a bit more power might make some political liaisons more fruitful/easier to accomplish.

With that, I think I will stop. And @Rossum, I entirely agree with you about NY compared to PA. PA is not GREAT but the last time I visited NY I expected to be taxed for breathing air and made sure I didn't gain weight in case there were a special "exit" tax where if you consumed to much of their food and water and whatnot, I'd have to pay another tax.

My brother wants to move there and live in a shack. He really needs another state, although if his life goes as planned (it won't, based on past experience) he won't be buying much. LOL.

Anna

 

[Publicvapor]

Here is a good read

A Year After 40 Percent Vapor Tax, Situation In Pennsylvania Is Grim

 

[Publicvapor]

 

[Publicvapor]