The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Performance of Different Metals in Mechanical Mods (body not contacts)

Discussion in 'APV and Mods Discussion' started by DeadbeatJeff, Apr 16, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    Are there appreciable differences when looking at Brass/SS/Copper body metals?

    If so, Which does better? Also: is there a difference when using mixed vs uniform metals?

    Not aesthetics. Performance. Voltage drop, battery life, etc.
     
  2. TheBeardedMann

    TheBeardedMann Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    United States
  3. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    Would you want higher / lower resistance / conductivity in the body?

    Intuition says lower resistance and higher conductivity, but then again I have no clue.
     
  4. suspectK

    suspectK Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2013
    Alabummer
    You make a choice with better conductivity, which isn't noticeable with vaping, and durability+ease of keeping clean.

    I try to stick with ss for my tubes... maybe brass caps or accents, but copper and brass are a pain to keep clean.

    37, ph0n3 h0m3.
     
  5. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    yeah, but I like the idea of a patina forming on copper, whether naturally over years or artificially (if you wanted to go that way)

    5p8PFAJ.jpg

    artificial patina
     
  6. suspectK

    suspectK Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2013
    Alabummer
    That's pretty dope.. I'd buy a few clones to experiment with that. Does it impact engraving?

    37, ph0n3 h0m3.
     
  7. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    I can't see how it wouldn't. Likely depends on how deep and wide the etching is. Check out some of these
     
  8. TheBeardedMann

    TheBeardedMann Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    United States
    You can change SS color too with some heat. Found this on this forum:
    [​IMG]

    Here's a how to for atomizers:


    I think the copper looks better though.
     
  9. MrPlink

    MrPlink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Before anybody gets torch happy the patterns of the FOLDED steel blade are not simply a result of heat
     
  10. Kovertkow

    Kovertkow Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 9, 2014
    Mass
    Well you can get the "oil" effect if you were to case harden the device... But that's one hell of a difficult process...superheating metal in a air tight box with different materials around your mod(bone, aggregate, coal)...then immersing it in a oil bath without compromising the airtight box.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    I'm sorry, but no one is measuring voltage drop of the mech mod (battery holder). The drop comes from the resistance of the addy. If you read the battery with a voltmeter and it reads 4.2v and then you put the battery in the mod, it will read exatly the same by putting the pos. lead of your voltmeter on the pin and the negative lead on the case (give or take .1v usually if at all). Only when you put a resitence onto the mod like an addy with a coil in it, will you see a voltage change when you place the voltmeter leads to the pos. pin and one on one of the negatives. What you are reading then, is the voltage drop the coil of the addy is causing, not the mech. What your mod is made of is strictly personal preference. If you like brass, know it will tarnish as will copper mods. If you like anodized mods, know that it may rub off over time. Stainless steel means it's hard to rust and stainless, like all metals, come in many different formulas. But none of them have an effect on voltage drop. your coil is what causes voltage drop. If you get a drop in something that doesn't have a resistance on it, then you have a short somewhere. If it's in your MECH! pull the battery out fast! If it's happening on a addy without a coil in it, then get it off the mech and find the short in it. No, what I type now isn't a totality complete class on voltage and metals. But it is the jest of voltage drop in an APV (advanced personal vaper) device be it mech or vv/vw one. It really gets under my skin when I see someone type. OH don't get that mech, it's got a big voltage drop. Nothing about such a statement has a bit of truth in it.
     
  12. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    But that's not true, Tony.

    I mean, if the current runs the metal of the body to get to the negative terminal, which it does, then the resistance of the metal in the body is relevant. Especially with very low-ohm builds. With a higher resistance build, I imagine it doesn't matter at all, as you're not pushing enough amps to have the conductivity of the mod really matter. But with these 0.15-0.2 ohm builds, pushing 21-28 amps, it definitely comes into play.

    I mean, having obtained a pure copper Nemie and a brass stingray, I can tell you with assurance that I start noticing an appreciable performance issue once I get under 0.4ohms, not really noticeable at all at 0.6 and above. The copper does much better at higher power, given that my threads and connections are clean.

    ----------------

    But TBH it seems to me that generally voltage-drop comes from poor fittings and threads, solidity of contacts, etc; certainly not just from the atomizer and coil. The metal would only be relevant, really, if all else is well-made.

    At any rate I can say from experience that brass and copper perform differently at very low resistances, and pretty much the same in anything above 0.5ohm.
     
  13. dannyrl

    dannyrl Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 6, 2014
    Hillsboro, OR
    Yes, mod material plays a part in voltage drop. Without the atty resistance though, mod resistance is almost negligible and you'd need a really good multimeter to detect it.

    A quick google search pulled up the following results:

    Electrical resistance (10E-8 Ohms*m):
    Copper: 1.7
    Brass: 6.3
    SS: 73 (yes, seventy three. no typo)

    Source: Conductive Materials or Metal Conductivity - TIBTECH innovations -

    So assuming a hypothetical mod was created the same way with the three different metals, copper would hit hardest, followed by brass, and SS trailing a bit behind. Would you feel this difference? Depends on the user. Hypothetically, yes though.

    that was only a quick Google search so the credibility of the site isn't 100% confirmed, but you don't have to be a materials engineer to see differences in resistances. Likewise, the conductivity of these metals follows the same pattern with Copper being the most conductive, brass being next, and SS being last (58,16,1.3 10E6 siemens/m respectively).

    Basically, the order goes Copper > Brass > SS when it comes to electrical efficiency in material. But SS is much easier to clean and keep clean than the other two. I'm not sure about durability when it comes to dropping the device and etc, but I'd assume SS is more durable than the other two metals.

    Personally, I stick to SS mods because I can only afford clones and they don't make copper clones as far as I know of, yet. If they do, they aren't cheap enough to catch my attention yet :p. I'd go for an all brass mod, but I keep reading horror stories about brass clones' threads stripping.
     
  14. MrPlink

    MrPlink Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    You are talking about voltage under load which is not the same as inherent voltage drop of your mod.

    Not all mods have the same drop, some are very efficient others make eGo batteries look like high power fog machines.

    There are tons of factors here which deadbeatJeff mentioned, and granted for over all performance your atty is one of them, but sans atomizer choice there is an empirical performance difference from one design or mod type to the next. Is it huge? Not typically. But again, it has been observed, measured and recorded.
     
  15. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    Humm funny thing. I read all this and so I did a test. I took a brand new fresh charged vtc5 battery, that after it settled read 4.2 volts on my multi meter. I then placed it in my mod and stuck the leads to the center pin and outside case and guess what! It read 4.2 volts. So where's the volt drop in any one of my mods? Because I've done this on all 10 of my mods with the same results. It's not there. It isn't there because there is no resistance built into my multi reader or my mods.

    One of those screw on readers often read different, so I wanted to know why. So I tore one apart and sure enough, inside it was a resister in direct line to the led reader. So that's what I was reading as the voltage drop when I tried using one of those. I was reading that resisters effect on the battery voltage. Add an addy to it, with a coil and funny thing happened.Iit read even more difference in volt drop. Why! Becase now not only have I added my addys resistance (caused by the coil) I also added to that resistance of the resistor to it.

    I read with my multi meter the resistance of my coil, which in this case was .626ohm of residence. I then put two wire leads to the + and - posts on my addy so I could do a direct connection to the battery with out my mod and read the resistance and guess what! There was more resistance because of the small wire I used. Sure enough and as I knew was going to happen, once I put the battery to these leads, my meter dropped my 4.2 volts to 3.74v. No mod involved. So I put the battery in my mod, screwed on my addy, removed the two copper leads and fired my battery on my mod using my same multi meter placed on the -and + thermals in my addy and I read 3.865 v when I hit the fire button. So seems my two small copper wires had about a .125 volt effective difference.



    No! My mod didn't have one little bit of cause that was readable in my test. Only volt drop noticed, was caused by the added resistance I added to the mod and the battery that drives it all. The mod itself showed no readable or noticeable volt drop in any way. Naw I'm not buying the idea that there is some built in readable phantom voltage drop in mods. Haven't seen one yet. It seems to me that if you do read a real volt drop in a mod, without some sort external resistance put on it, then it's more then likely caused by a short somewhere in the mod. A short equals a resistance. Big or small. If you have a short (built in resistance) in a mod, then find it and fix it, cause you can't turn it off and it will cause a battery drain. Bad enough of one ( short/resistance) and it can cause a battery heating up real fast.
     
  16. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    so, you really think that the conductivity of metal in the circuit, or anything else about a mod like threads etc, doesn't have any affect on effective voltage?

    that doesn't make sense. I mean, different metals have different resistances ...saying that the mod doesn't present any resistance, regardless of its composition....

    sure, the sheer amount of metal being used negates the resistance to a point, but at higher amp draws it does come into play
     
  17. suspectK

    suspectK Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 7, 2013
    Alabummer
    I'm sure different mods handle heat distribution better.. there's a reason we have 13kV+ running our electricity across distances, not high current. If you see where I'm going with this...

    I'd like to hook a few mods up to a power source and measure with IR and volt meter..I only have SS body mods though.:)
     
  18. Tony M

    Tony M Full Member

    Nov 18, 2013
    Oklahoma City, Ok
    Look, It's a elementary thing. Electrical electrons will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance. It's why mods have either copper, brass or silver plated pins in them.. A battery is the holder of what electrons are available for a mod. Once the fire button is pressed, those electrons get released, but aren't going to arbitrarily go berserk and start running around all over the mod hunting for some point of least resistance. WHY! Because the mod was designed with the metal pins to be that path of least resistance. Those little electron fellas are going to head straight to the 510 connector, hit the bottom of the addy and run their butts up to and around the coil. The coil is a big resistance and since those little fellas are moving so fast, they heat up the very conductive kanthal or nichrome wire through nothing short of friction.

    But lets assume, that at some point, a few electrons do break out of the path of least resistance and go berserk running around the mod metal instead of following the majority on the path of least resistance. Even if somehow it was a whole volts worth of electrons, you won't notice it in your vape. And unless you are some type of professional International cloud blowing champ from some international cloud blowing team. Well that one volt may make the difference in a cloud and cost you the title. But to use that one volt as a means to say this mod is so much better then that one because 1 volt worth of electrons went a little berserk and didn't follow the physics! Well I for one tire of seeing it. And I'm still not convinced there are some berserk electrons not following basic physics.
     
  19. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    dude to get back to the battery they travel down the body of the ATTY, and down the body of the mod to the negative terminal of the batt

    electricity travels the body of the mod. WTH are you talking about

    • from the positive on the battery to the 510
    • from the 510 to the 510 on the ATTY
    • through the coil, to the negative posts which are connected to the body of the ATTY
    • to the body of the mod via the threaded part of the 510
    • from the body of the mod to the threaded part of the switch
    • from the switch to the negative terminal of the battery

    It's an elementary thing. Maybe I'm just not used to dealing with "electrical electrons", only regular electrons...

    [add: also, a 1v drop would be atrocious. I recharge my batteries when they hit 4.0v... consistently. Maybe 3.9. I don't measure it; that is just when I can start noticing a difference in the vape.]
     
  20. DeadbeatJeff

    DeadbeatJeff Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2014
    Rochester, NY
    I think when I made this thread I'd been thinking about different alloys and ratios, but then got caught up in he patina discussion and forgot about the matter completely.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice