Periodontal disease. Menthol?

[subversive]

Hey, all. In general, I have roughly zero concern with vaping. It's been 6 years, and my lungs certainly don't feel like smoker's lungs. I have no doubts that vaping is much safer than smoking.

I do want some input on this issue, though. I'm 31, so fairly young, and I have very healthy, strong teeth. My gums are another story. I was just diagnosed with moderate to severe periodontal disease. I need two otherwise healthy molars extracted as well as probable osseous surgery on all my back teeth. My entire mouth is affected. I think maybe 1 or 2 of my teeth had a pocket depth less than 4. I'm averaging 6s and have two 8s.

I knew I at least had gingivitis, and I guessed it had progressed past that point, but I figured a cleaning and an RX mouthwash would be all I needed.

I didn't tell my hygienist about the electronic cigarette use, but my sister spilled the beans. She's convinced vaping caused this, and the hygienist was also not thrilled. She also doesn't understand vaping. I told her it's just propylene glycol, but she said it's still combustion. I told her no, it's not combustion. She also basically considers my status to be a smoker now. There is no real point arguing with some people. To them, vaping will always equal smoking.

Ok, blah blah long story...nicotine is obviously a vasoconstrictor, but my nic levels are 10% of what they used to be and obviously less than when I smoked. Google search shows people (dentists) saying that nicotine all by itself, even nic gum, causes gum disease. Others say the nicotine has nothing to do with it.

I also came across a couple studies that showed vaping kills new gum cells. One made it out to be very general, and the other mentioned that the only things with statistical significance were menthol and cinnamon flavorings. I have vaped 100% PG and menthol 90% of time for the last 6 years.

Basically, as far as I can tell, there haven't been many real studies on it.

No doubt genetics and smoking triggered this, but I can't help but wonder if dry mouth and/or possible long term mouth irritation from menthol and/or vapor has been a contributing factor.

I have no plans to quit vaping, but I am strongly considering getting rid of the menthol. Not thrilled with that idea, but I am far too young to let this progress any further.

Give me your input, opinions, anecdotes, and any scientific/professional information you may have!

And before "My gums were bad and then stopped bleeding after vaping" or "They started bleeding when I switched" mine started bleeding awhile after I had started vaping - not sure how long. Maybe as long as a couple years. I have heard the thing about smoking masking gum disease a million times, but if nicotine is what does the constricting, then I have never understood why vaping wouldn't mask it.

Still really annoyed at my sister for "telling" on me. Going to create awkwardness with my dentist because while I may admit some concern, I won't back down from my basic belief in vaping being a wonderful alternative with little possible harm.

 

[anavidfan]

Humor your dentist, BUT I really dont think menthol would hurt your gums, nicotine on the other hand might, and I mean MIGHT, but I doubt it.

Nicotine constricts the blood vessels, so if anything, and again I say MAYBE, if anything lack of brushing and stimulation might cause problems from not enough circulation.

Many people have great teeth, but periodontal disease. Its genetic, and I know this first hand. Hardly EVER had cavities, but gums have been a problem on and off. Get yourself a Water Pik, you will LOVE it. Rinse with peroxide and listerine for a bit too. Your gums and teeth will get so wonderful.

Back to the menthol, menthol is added to mouth rinses, toothpaste, etc. If menthol was a problem, I doubt they'd use it in oral products.

These are just MY opinions, based on my own personal opinion. There seems to be 2 train of thoughts in relationship to medical people and vaping, its either the root of all evil or its fine.

Dont be too annoyed with your sister, she is a victim of all the misinformed media demonizing vaping.

And if you still are concerned, use 0 nic and non-menthol, try peppermint? and see if things get better

 

[Highwayman]

Im kinda in agreement, with the addition of diet. Diet can have an impact on gums and teeth. Try changing your diet to include citrus fruits and vegetables.
How often do you brush? I could imagine it being a bit painful with frequent brushes but as suggested above, water pik and corsodyl are gentle deep cleaning methods that could help.
Sometimes medical school can go to the brains of our 'health professionals', so to speak, but their judgment would be based on what they know now from teachings. Vaping is still in its infancy really so more time and research will tell us more.

I hope things work out for you, 31 is no age to be losing teeth, especially if there is nothing wrong with the teeth and its down to the gums. Maybe there are some changes you can make to eliminate those possibilities. Take care and all the best.

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

 

[subversive]

I actually eat a very healthy diet. I was heavier a few years ago and lost the weight and am maintaining it. Fridge is filled with produce. I am a good brusher - confirmed by hygienist. She told me she typically recommends sonic toothbrushes but that I'm doing just fine with manual. The tartar in the pockets couldn't have been reached by me -that's the point of gum surgery. The only thing that I have been lax about is flossing, which is obviously a contributing thing. Not never, just not regularly. Everyone in my family with the exception of the one sister who never smoked has gum disease. Mine is unusually severe/my age young compared to my relatives, tho.

I went out the same day as that appointment and got a Sonicare anyway as well as a Waterpik. I'm using interdental brushes plus the waterpik plus the sonicare twice a day. I'm hoping that my 2 week followup will go well and I can avoid surgery. Either way, those back 2 molars are going to have to come out. Those are the 8s and are affecting the molar in front of them.

 

[subversive]

The more Googling, the more conflicting info. One study of actual smokers showed no difference in rate of gum disease between menthol and regular. Of course, if they tried to survey vapers, they would come up with a ton of gum disease because it's pretty clear smoking is a huge risk factor, and the majority of us are ex-smokers.

I just want to do everything I can. If the link to menthol exists, I'll find some fruit flavor or something. Or go flavorless. I've done that from time to time. Probably not dropping nicotine. If my dentist asks, I'll just ask him if he would prefer a) e-cigs b) lifetime nic gum use c) smoking

 

[RCP1991]

Influence of E-smoking liquids on human periodontal ligament fibroblasts

There may be some scientific basis for moving away from menthol. That said, the severity of your case seems to suggest a hereditary or other biological predisposition to periodontal disease. I can't imagine a bit of menthol e liquid causing those pocket depths on it's own -- if it did, this whole board would have periodontal disease. So, perhaps cut out the menthol to maximize your improvement, but I wouldn't ascribe to the idea of vaping or the menthol as being the root (pun intended) cause of your condition -- for that: blame bad genes, crappy teenage hygiene/diet, and too many cigarettes. Best of luck to you, I'm sure you will be able to get everything under control.

 

[Beamslider]

I smoked menthol cigs PAD for over 40 years. Didn't have periodontal problems from it. When I started vaping I stuck with menthol for awhile but now rarely vape menthol. The menthol didn't as far as I can tell cause dental problems.

However when vaping menthol all day long and sometimes chain vaping it, I felt that it was causing breathing problems and sleeping problems for me. So I stopped the menthol. Now occasionally I will vape some menthol flavored juice and it's fine.

Not medical advice, just my own personal experience.

 

[ian91]

Show your dentist this. Take a look at the product label and check out the third and fourth ingredients. Apparently they are okay for children!!

Orajel PAW Patrol Fluoride Free Toothpaste

 

[RCP1991]

I smoked menthol cigs PAD for over 40 years. Didn't have periodontal problems from it. When I started vaping I stuck with menthol for awhile but now rarely vape menthol. The menthol didn't as far as I can tell cause dental problems.

However when vaping menthol all day long and sometimes chain vaping it, I felt that it was causing breathing problems and sleeping problems for me. So I stopped the menthol. Now occasionally I will vape some menthol flavored juice and it's fine.

Not medical advice, just my own personal experience.

I'll follow up by saying I smoked menthol cigarettes for the better part of 8 or 9 years so naturally when I switched to vaping I thought I would prefer the strongest menthol possible. I quickly found that with vaping, especially lung hit type vaping, you are taking in A LOT more menthol than you would with a menthol spiked cigarette. I found straight menthol juices incredibly unpleasant and tough on the lungs. I now mix a bit of menthol in with a more traditional sweeter mint type e juice and find it much more palatable.

For the OP's purposes it might be worth looking into mint flavored e juices that don't necessarily have much menthol in them. For me spearmint seems to come close to checking the menthol craving box and the added sweetness is kind of nice after a meal, sort of like a breath mint.