FDA Personally unworried about the regulations

[zelda]

I seriously doubt whether I and many other vapers are going to be happy with the outcome.

 

[zoiDman]

I don't see flavor selection getting smaller, 36mg is what it looks like for a cap on nic strength, Liquid should remain a liquid, and I am entirely unsure where someone pulled 330k out of their .... for FDA registration on liquids...Thats just simply not how it works for larger companies. Once blanket policies go into affect its not going to cost 330k damn dollars for John Q liquid maker to register liquids. Things will settle down, this is pretty common politics (or like haggling at a garage sale) Hit everything with the biggest baddest worst case scenario that way once negotiations and amendments etc etc etc settle down you wind up where both parties are fairly happy with the final outcome.

So it sounds like you Feel that that Nothing is Going to change much.

Because the Market will just Shift from what it is Today, to one in which Big Business Controls it. And that the 330K figure has been overstated.

So what do think the Realistic Figure would be?

 

[zoiDman]

I seriously doubt whether I and many other vapers are going to be happy with the outcome.

I think that is going to be a Slam Dunk given.

 

[Jman8]

I think that is going to be a Slam Dunk given.

So, why fight now then?

 

[zoiDman]

I don't see flavor selection getting smaller, 36mg is what it looks like for a cap on nic strength, Liquid should remain a liquid, ...

BTW - There is No Conflict of Interest if state what you are Basing Statements like this On. As long as you Do Not Promote a Product/Retailer in doing so.

So what are you Basing All this On?

 

[zoiDman]

So, why fight now then?

Your not going to Start that "Doing Nothing is the Best thing to Do" thing again are you?

Not being Happy because a Person lost 1/3 of what they Had is Different from Not being happy because they Lost 2/3 of what they Had. Or Maybe 3/4.

I think Those of us who are Not Dual Users are Fighting to Maintain as Much of a Market as we Can. Because going Back to Analogs is Not an Option for Us.

 

[Chris Leckness]

I just do not see it having the massively negative impact everyone fears. Big tobacco at this point is all too heavily invested in E-cigs, there are way to many large corporations (you know, the people running this country) that are invested in this marketplace for these regulations to actually start tearing down or destroying the ecig market. They are going to wind up with some regulation, how can you expect them not to be? I am by no means a governmental advocate, or in support of any of this (barring the regulations that might help clean up the POS products, and harmful liquids that sneak there way over here) But come on, all the doom and gloom for what I personally feel is no reason.

For the simple reason of not having choices is why I am very worried.

 

[8dragon9]

BTW - There is No Conflict of Interest if state what you are Basing Statements like this On. As long as you Do Not Promote a Product/Retailer in doing so.

So what are you Basing All this On?

Im basing this on seeing these things happening with a massive company, and a little company. I realistically can not put out a direct figure as that has not been given out yet either, but there have been reassurance so to speak made that small companys, small liquid vendors, and to an extent home blenders are not just simply going to fall by the wayside or have no way to continue doing what they are doing. Simply stated the companies I have involvement with are not ceasing any sort of manufacturing anytime soon and have no reason to. in particular August 8th is going to pretty much go buy the same way jan 1st 2000 went.

 

[8dragon9]

And allow me to reiterate I am not advocating in any way shape or form the do nothing mantra. I am quite simply stating I myself, as a part of this industry and as a vaper, are not sharing this doom and gloom feeling of loss that everyone seems to have.

 

[zoiDman]

For the simple reason of not having choices is why I am very worried.

Don't Worry. If we do Nothing, we will still have Choices.

Like either Tobacco or Menthol. And you can Pick from One of the "Big Three" tobacco companies when it comes to Buying a new PV.

Seems like a Ton of Choices to me.

 

[zelda]

Im basing this on seeing these things happening with a massive company, and a little company. I realistically can not put out a direct figure as that has not been given out yet either, but there have been reassurance so to speak made that small companys, small liquid vendors, and to an extent home blenders are not just simply going to fall by the wayside or have no way to continue doing what they are doing. Simply stated the companies I have involvement with are not ceasing any sort of manufacturing anytime soon and have no reason to. in particular August 8th is going to pretty much go buy the same way jan 1st 2000 went.

Who reassured you? The FDA?

 

[zoiDman]

Im basing this on seeing these things happening with a massive company, and a little company. I realistically can not put out a direct figure as that has not been given out yet either, but there have been reassurance so to speak made that small companys, small liquid vendors, and to an extent home blenders are not just simply going to fall by the wayside or have no way to continue doing what they are doing. Simply stated the companies I have involvement with are not ceasing any sort of manufacturing anytime soon and have no reason to. in particular August 8th is going to pretty much go buy the same way jan 1st 2000 went.

I think you would be Well Served to Question these Assurances you are getting.

As too not Stopping Manufacturing. Why would someone? The people I'm am Associated with All hold the Same Belief. Run until they are Told that they Can Not Run Anymore.

But this Isn't Exactly a sign that FDA Regulations are not going to Severely Restrict a Currently Free Market.

August 8th will come and go with No Change to what a Vaper/Vendor can or Can Not do. August 8th is Merely the End of the Public Comment Period the FDA is Required to Provide.

 

[SeniorBoy]

It suffices to say, without violating the ECF rules etc, that I work in this industry and am unconcerned based on the information that myself and our company have at this time which does not come from a speculators standpoint. We are going to see a reduction in some mom and pops (which is not a terrible thing in a lot of cases) and a reduction of cheap nasty liquids. Realistically the only people that truthfully need to fear anything are shoddy vendors, and in home liquid blenders using sub-par ingredients. Tank systems, flavored liquids and the like are not going away. Some of the BT investments are in flavored liquids for gods sake, this is the tobacco industries opportunity to again make money off of flavors ever since flavored tobaccos went by the way-side. I stand by my original comment, I am not worried. And to answer a lot of the short direct comments into my posts, no I do not advocate just sitting back and not doing anything and this was not a dig on anyone who actively advocates or goes out and does things about our situation. It was a simple statement of I am not too worried about the future of E-cigs as we know and love them.

Thanks for the response. In fairness to you, I have heard this basic rational from a number of B&Ms I have visited. We have over 50 in Vegas and while I have not yet visited all of them, I have spoken to about a dozen owners/prinicipals/investors in person. When I visit, I bring my sites business cards, some material from CASAA and the actual FDA regs. I also disclose that I am a former angel investor in two B&Ms, I am not an attorney and or CPA and as I state, I encourage folks to seek a diversity of opinions. I currently have zero connections to the industry and clearly state this. Hers is my takeaway from those instances where I received similar responses to yours and I'm not pointing at you, only posting my takeaways from direct face to face conversations with owners/principals and NOT employees.

1- NONE had obtained legal advice in writing from a qualified attorney. This is always my first recommendation
2- Some owners/principals/investors had not read the deeming
3- Some where simply "spinning" the issue so their employees did not freak out
4- Some in private had a general same page view as myself BUT intended to make as much money as possible up to the very end and then vanish.
5- Some continued to "spin" me which to a certain degree is understandable. Believe it or not, one of these habitual spinners finally got religion and made a contribution to one of the activist organizations. THAT made me very happy

In conclusion OP, have the owners/principals in your company obtained a written opinion from a qualified attorney which you have read and which supports your current views?

 

[Jman8]

Your not going to Start that "Doing Nothing is the Best thing to Do" thing again are you?

Not on this thread I won't, but on a thread where it is only about speaking to those who will not budge, I might.

Not being Happy because a Person lost 1/3 of what they Had is Different from Not being happy because they Lost 2/3 of what they Had. Or Maybe 3/4.

I think Those of us who are Not Dual Users are Fighting to Maintain as Much of a Market as we Can. Because going Back to Analogs is Not an Option for Us.

I'm pretty sure going back to analogs is one of the own propaganda things that the worried crowd espouses, when they feel the need arises.

So, what is the slam dunk on percentage of what the vaping community (as it now exists) will lose? Is it 99% or less? And less because vapers will fight, yes? So, if knowing vapers are going to fight and losses won't be 99% but say closer to 33%, then why be worried that it will be worse case scenario?

 

[zoiDman]

And allow me to reiterate I am not advocating in any way shape or form the do nothing mantra. I am quite simply stating I myself, as a part of this industry and as a vaper, are not sharing this doom and gloom feeling of loss that everyone seems to have.

Well that is Good.

But Unfortunately, when you Tell someone that "Everything is Going to be Fine" and "Nothing is Really Going to Change", people as a Group will Do Nothing because they feel there is No Reason to do Anything.

People as a Whole are Inherently Lazy. Telling someone things like "I have Assurances that Nothing is Going to Change" plays on that Laziness.

 

[XJ-linux]

If the cost gets too high, or it becomes a major hassle to get juice, I'll just quit and sell what devices I can on FeeBay. I'm certainly not in a place where going back to pre-filled carts and 808 battery cig-alikes would cut it anyhow. I won't like it, but to me vaping is a relatively innocuous hobby relative to everything else. Chalk it up as another thing .gov and .corp ruined I guess.

 

[zoiDman]

...

So, what is the slam dunk on percentage of what the vaping community (as it now exists) will lose? Is it 99% or less? And less because vapers will fight, yes? So, if knowing vapers are going to fight and losses won't be 99% but say closer to 33%, then why be worried that it will be worse case scenario?

Who can Say Jman8?

And maybe you should Go Back and Re-Read what the "Slam Dunk" referred to. It was about Not Being Happy. Not about what will be Taken Away thru FDA Regulations/Restriction.

But maybe we should get to the Core of what I am Advocating. Do you Think Fight FDA Regulations will have a Negative Effect on Vapers in General.

If Not, why do you seem to be so Against People who Want to?

 

[Jman8]

Well that is Good.

But Unfortunately, when you Tell someone that "Everything is Going to be Fine" and "Nothing is Really Going to Change", people as a Group will Do Nothing because they feel there is No Reason to do Anything.

People as a Whole are Inherently Lazy. Telling someone things like "I have Assurances that Nothing is Going to Change" plays on that Laziness

That may be how the worried crowd operates, when focus is all on the problem. The concerned crowd is always looking at solutions and viable options, realizing which ones are feasible (given current politics) and which ones are longer term strategies that are the ultimate objective, but may not be doable at this point.

The worried crowd also sees everyone as possible opposition: BP, BG, BT, FDA, ANTZ, local legislators, Pubs, Dems. Concerned crowd identifies those players and moves forward, unworried, about what can "I do today" in relation to the current political realities and our/my ultimate objective.

Worried crowd is worried both that the market will be gone and that it will continue. Actually worried about both scenarios. The one where it continues has great "reason" for worry because of who will control the market, so BT is now opposition, even while they are biggest investors in the market. So, reality is going forward, the worried crowd is covered either way. There will always be 'reason' to worry regardless of the outcome.

 

[8dragon9]

Well that is Good.

But Unfortunately, when you Tell someone that "Everything is Going to be Fine" and "Nothing is Really Going to Change", people as a Group will Do Nothing because they feel there is No Reason to do Anything.

People as a Whole are Inherently Lazy. Telling someone things like "I have Assurances that Nothing is Going to Change" plays on that Laziness.

One thing I will not do is contain my own opinions or thoughts simply because others may wind up influenced to remain silent and sitting on their duffs doing nothing.

 

[8dragon9]

In general I state again that a PM may be a more proper methodology for me to answer some things