FDA Personally unworried about the regulations

[WorksForMe]

This is exactly why it's so important for us to keep up the comments! We can't expect the FDA to listen to reason per se given all of their conflicts of interest, but we can show them that there are far too many of us invested in manufacturing, distributing, and using these products, and if they block all of our products by way of excessive fees that allow only multimillion-dollar businesses to continue producing them, they stand to have a huge public scandal on their hands!

I believe there will be a big scandal. A lot of users, user's family and freinds, user's doctors, etc. are blissfully unware or just not paying attention right now. When decent ecigs start disappearing, people will come out of the woodwork.

J.R.

 

[stevegmu]

If the FDA is bought and paid for by Big tobacco, Big Pharma and has already made up their mind, why would letters make a difference? Seems a little silly...

 

[zoiDman]

If the FDA is bought and paid for by Big tobacco, Big Pharma and has already made up their mind, why would letters make a difference? Seems a little silly...

Because the FDA Isn't Bought and Paid by BT and BP.

Is the FDA a Non-Biased, Political Agenda Free, 100% Science Based Agency? No they are Not.

Is the FDA just and Extension of BT and BP and will Do ANYTHING they Wish and Only for their Benefit? No... are Not that Either.

The Truth I think is Somewhere In Between these 2 Extremes. All be it, it Probably is Closer to the Later than the Former. At least I think it Does.

 

[stevegmu]

Reading through these threads, the FDA is the all powerful, heartless, money-hungry, bought and paid for enemy. One does not reason with or persuade such types. Perhaps it is the tin foil hat posters which end up doing the most harm...

 

[zoiDman]

Reading through these threads, the FDA is the all powerful, heartless, money-hungry, bought and paid for enemy. One does not reason with or persuade such types. Perhaps it is the tin foil hat posters which end up doing the most harm...

People like to Demonize things sometimes. And there is No Such Thing as being 2/3 Demonic.

It kinda All or Nothing for Some People.

I think that there will be Many Good Things that Could come Out of FDA Regulations. Unfortunately, I don't have a Boat Load of Faith that the FDA will use a 100% Science Based Analysis of what e-Cigarette Use Is/Does.

So there is Also going to be Unneeded Restrictions in Some Areas. And some Agenda/BT Favored Restrictions Also.

 

[Jman8]

One things for sure, though - it's no way near as restrictive as the FDA regs will be. Sure, it might have some silly and arbitrary clauses about bottle sizes and whatnot, but there's no "grandfathering" substantial-equivalence, and there's nothing remotely similar to the PMTA requirement (although there are still requirements for pre-market registrations).

If there are requirements for pre-market registrations, then it is (remotely) similar to PMTA requirements.

Currently no one that I am aware of actually knows anything substantial about PMTA, and instead uses it as ultimate bogeyman for 'end of vaping as we know it.'

I recall numerous threads before (and after) EU decision on vaping as 'end of vaping.' One would think from rhetoric going into that and immediate aftermath that it would be literally impossible to obtain any vaping products in the EU at this point. If you are one of the lucky few that can get them, then that would be unbelievably surprising, based on those past threads.

As I said in one of my first posts on this thread, this debate comes down to a wait and see proposition. Yet, all of us are on board with fighting. Some, like myself, might want to fight in ways that are not always prim and proper, as our opposition is clearly using a dirty playbook to win some smaller battles, but at least we all agree on idea that fighting back can help. I say this because it is this resistance that can overcome at least some of our opposition's desire to decimate the market.

I don't see how vapers (at least some of them) can want 'reasonable regulations' that directly deal with eLiquid quality and safety, and not then see how that would 'end vaping as we know it.' Some vapers don't want this, but it is fair to say that for political gaming, some ANTZ don't want it, and just assume see vapers do themselves in (via dangerous products). Yet, unless we are trying to live in magical fairy land, I think everyone that knew anything about vaping since 2009, knew that regulations were inevitable, and most knew that ANTZ would be major influence on those.

Thus far, with regards to FDA regulations, ANTZ is upset at how tame the FDA regulations are. Not how they might be, but how they are. Yet, even with that in mind, our side (vaping enthusiasts) has a rather large faction that keeps standing on the street corner screaming at the top of their lungs "the end is near" and that vaping culture is all but dead.

That the genie will magically be put back in the model.
And that black market operators will magically say they want nothing to do with the billion dollars of revenue that are currently pouring into the vaping market.

 

[Jman8]

Reading through these threads, the FDA is the all powerful, heartless, money-hungry, bought and paid for enemy. One does not reason with or persuade such types. Perhaps it is the tin foil hat posters which end up doing the most harm...

If the FDA were as powerful as some here continue to claim, I'd be more concerned, probably a little worried. I would also see it utterly pointless to fight them unless there was a full house in congress or full branch of government that 100% supported vaping. As that doesn't actually exist, then I would think fighting FDA via letters would be utterly pointless if FDA is considered as powerful and biased as some make them out to be.

Though I'd like to hear the magical fairytale about how the band of vapers overcame the almighty FDA dragon, with their words. That would be a tale for the ages. Might make for a great movie.

 

[Stubby]

If there are requirements for pre-market registrations, then it is (remotely) similar to PMTA requirements.

Currently no one that I am aware of actually knows anything substantial about PMTA, and instead uses it as ultimate bogeyman for 'end of vaping as we know it.'

I recall numerous threads before (and after) EU decision on vaping as 'end of vaping.' One would think from rhetoric going into that and immediate aftermath that it would be literally impossible to obtain any vaping products in the EU at this point. If you are one of the lucky few that can get them, then that would be unbelievably surprising, based on those past threads.

You appear to not have a clue as to what went on in the EU. Read SmokeyJoe's full post instead of taking a few sentences and twisting it out of context. Pretty low level on your part and a long way from the truth of the matter. I am not at all an expert on the issue, but from what I do know, at this point I simply cannot take you seriously.

 

[potholerepairman]

No, that's not how I feel at all. If it was then I wouldn't have bothered keeping up with CASAA. As stated in the opening line of that post, I want people to have the same range and availability of options that I had when I started vaping.

I've given away all my hardware as I've upgraded it. I kept one VV ego style as a backup for awhile but past that everything I had when I started went to friends and family and a couple complete strangers that were interested. So, no, I'm not like that.

That post was directed towards the group of people that are withering without hope thinking there will be nothing left.

Believe you 100%, a click of the mouse is a pain, has been for me in the past and present,Never wanted to cause a stir, glad you got the issue of what it sounded like,Sorry to have to be the one to bring it up.

 

[stevegmu]

If the FDA were as powerful as some here continue to claim, I'd be more concerned, probably a little worried. I would also see it utterly pointless to fight them unless there was a full house in congress or full branch of government that 100% supported vaping. As that doesn't actually exist, then I would think fighting FDA via letters would be utterly pointless if FDA is considered as powerful and biased as some make them out to be.

Though I'd like to hear the magical fairytale about how the band of vapers overcame the almighty FDA dragon, with their words. That would be a tale for the ages. Might make for a great movie.

When nothing of significance happens, they will claim victory...

 

[Jman8]

When nothing of significance happens, they will claim victory...

In the meantime, it's ad hom attacks toward the unworried crowd.

 

[SeniorBoy]

A look into the future. What might happen!

Sure, a small percent of Vapers will in fact use the "Black Market" and forsake one of the negative implications in exchange for their own selfish and flawed thoughts: for new vapers who start with a cig-a-like which doesn't work and then are told your next step is the "Black Market" Sure, forget the millions in exchange for your very own solution. Sure, use this within your argument today to add what you perceive as some measure of credence to what is in fact a deeply flawed argument. BUT, before you deal with Vinnie in the back alley via cash you might want to start with this read published in 2012 with a timeline that starts in 1985!:

FDA SWAT-Raids against Farmers, Organic Supplements & Natural Medicines

"The US Food and Drug Administration has a long history of conducting armed, SWAT-style raids on farmers, cancer treatment pioneers, and dietary supplement manufacturers. This list, compiled by the editors of NaturalNews, reveals only some of the hundreds of armed FDA raids that have been conducted in the last twenty-five years.

What you see from this is a pattern of government-sponsored terrorism against innocent Americans and small business people; all done in the name of "protecting" the public from milk, walnuts, vitamins, plants or fruit extracts. The real reason behind all this, of course, is that the FDA has long waged a campaign of fear and intimidation against natural product providers for the sole purpose of destroying the natural products industry and thereby handing Big Pharma a monopoly over health treatment medicines."

SOURCE: America's Concerns: FDA SWAT-Raid against Farmers, Organic Supplements & Natural Medicines

See any similarities? Due I agree with everything in the above article? Nope but on many points it hits the mark.

Best of luck with the high quality and tightly regulated Juice from Vinne in the back alley. Don't forget to bring cash!

 

[Jman8]

A look into the future:

Sure, a small percent of Vapers will in fact use the "Black Market" and forsake one of the negative implications in exchange for their own selfish and flawed thoughts: for new vapers who start with a cig-a-like which doesn't work and then are told your next step is the "Black Market"

What percentage are you estimating would use the black market? I'm curious.

I use cigalike and have in my 2.5 years of vaping. You say they don't work. I find that inaccurate.

Sure, forget the millions in exchange for your very own solution. Sure, use this within your argument today to add what you perceive as some measure of credence to what is in fact a deeply flawed argument. BUT, before you deal with Vinnie in the back alley via cash

What is this deeply flawed logic you are referencing? You toss out claims, but don't support them with.... anything.

Of all the times I've chosen to use black market in my life, it was never in a back alley. Where did you come up with that sort of scenario?

Arguably product in a future black market will be safer than current product in an unregulated market of a budding industry.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I use cigalike and have in my 2.5 years of vaping. You say they don't work. I find that inaccurate.
...

In the Interest of Fairness, you should probably Also mention that you are a Dual-User.

 

[Kent C]

wiki: on alcohol prohibition, before and after

"After the prohibition was implemented alcohol continued to be consumed. However, how much compared to pre-Prohibition levels remains unclear. Studies examining the rates of cirrhosis deaths as a proxy for alcohol consumption estimated a decrease in consumption of 10–20%.[4][5][6] One study reviewing city-level drunkenness arrests came to a similar result.[7] And, yet another study examining "mortality, mental health and crime statistics" found that alcohol consumption fell, at first, to approximately 30 percent of its pre-Prohibition level; but, over the next several years, increased to about 60–70 percent of its pre-prohibition level"

"There was also the notorious and ever-present organized bootlegging. The country's scourge led to massive and widespread corruption of politicians and law enforcement agencies and helped finance powerful crime organizations. In addition to the murders of law enforcement officers there was an ever more common cause of death and disability caused by the bootleggers' illegal products."

Per Capita Consumption of Alcoholic Beverages (Gallons of Pure Alcohol) 1910-1929. (prohibition was from 1921-1933)

 

[WillyZee]

Best of luck with the high quality and tightly regulated Juice from Vinne in the back alley. Don't forget to bring cash!

Cash is King

and we all know that is ultimately what's at stake here.

 

[Jman8]

In the Interest of Fairness, you should probably Also mention that you are a Dual-User.

I am a dual user .... who has broken the addiction to smoking. How do I know this? Because I've gone cold turkey in my life for longer than any vaper has quit smoking via vaping.

So, cigalikes do work.

 

[zoiDman]

I am a dual user .... who has broken the addiction to smoking. How do I know this? Because I've gone cold turkey in my life for longer than any vaper has quit smoking via vaping.

So, cigalikes do work.

No Saying that Cigalike Are or Aren't Effective for the Average Person.

Just think that Including the fact that you are a Dual-User should be Mentioned. Because I am Sure that Many People do not know that you are. And will just Assume that you had Quit Cigarettes like Most of us here have.

 

[Kent C]

No Saying that Cigalike Are or Aren't Effective for the Average Person.

Just think that Including the fact that you are a Dual-User should be Mentioned. Because I am Sure that Many People do not know that you are. And will just Assume that you had Quit Cigarettes like Most of us here have.

Well he's mentioned being a dual user in about 70 posts since October 2013. But you are right - there are 'many people' who don't know that he is. However, it is not likely anyone here who has paid even the least amount of attention to his posts in these sub forums. One, because he mentions it quite a bit and two, you may have mentioned it more than he has.

 

[Jman8]

And will just Assume that you had Quit Cigarettes like Most of us here have.

My point is that cigalikes work to break the addiction from smoking. I choose to smoke. That doesn't take away from cigalikes working. That is THE POINT up for discussion. If you want to make it about quitting like an anti-nicotine zealot might, then we can discuss that, as I have plenty of experience on that end.

Let me know when you are up to the task.