Petar K Method with a hybrid Wick

[48lowes]

EDO
I was starting to catch on the the genesis tilt, then I was showing my son in law the insides of the beast, put it back together and then it didn't work. I just put it aside till today. What did surprise me was the voltage, I was expecting to be kicking things up to 4.0v or more, instead I'm vaping at 3.0 - 3.5 range. I know this can change with different juices, devices, etc. Back to the genesis tilt, my wick was short and it seemed that the lower the juice in the tank was I'd get dry hits. I pretty much made sure I kept the tank with the juice favoring the wick side. I think I'll try a little more wick material to see if it feeds better.

 

[EDO]

48lowes...the fact that you are vaping it at a lower voltage compared to other set ups .....means you set it up correctly! Regarding your next build make the wick so it is longer and only 2mm above the bottom of the tank....make it more solid...start off with around 35mm of mesh instead pf the 10 mm that petar k uses. You don't want to use more mesh than you need to vape comfortably though, since the more solid the wick the more it acts as a heat sink.

 

[bail804]

EDO,
Have you checked out the "The Next Big thing.... Porous Ceramic Wicks" thread? Start on page 22. Scubabatdan found a locally available product to make a wick. I just made one of these wicks myself (very easy) and it is amazing how well it works. Check it out.

 

[EDO]

Bail804, Yeah I originally saw it but I noticed that he was getting dry hits very quickly when he did burns in the first video he posted and I lost all interest. Can you do the petar K method with it so that you can you slide out the wick in order to glow the coils and clean the ceramic wick? If so then it will be an excellent solution for the longer term.... not just the set up. Remember you can just wrap the hybrid wick as well in the traditional way very easily and get great results initially but you won't be able to use it more than a couple of days....because the cotton and coil will be all gunky. Ceramic gets gunky quickly as well.

How tough is the the ceramic wick you made? Can it easily break with lateral movement....ie if taking the cap off and you knock it, will it break? IF you can answer these questions for me I will appreciate it....since I will trust your word more than some of the others in the forum. Thanks for the heads up...I will check it out.

 

[bail804]

EDO,
I don't think its too fragile with normal handling. I did drop one on my tile floor and it did not survive. Don't think it will brake from a tap from the cap. I would imagine the thicker the wick the better. You can't use the Peter K method for making the coil. However; Scubabatdan came up with an easy method for wrapping the coil. You can wrap it simular to the Peter K on the wick its self. Then place the wick and coil into place, attach the neg leg, pull the coil tight, and then attach the pos leg. Once the wick is made it is a very quick and easy set-up. I have only run about two tanks through it, but there is no gunking on the coil or wick...yet. I am using a 50/50 clearish juice. I will run some Boba's through it tomorrow and see how it does. It wont be as servicable as the hybrid wick thats for sure. I never found a roll of cotton, so I was busting up a cotton ball, and getting the cotton right was a bit of a pain. Some have reported that they are vaping horizontal without drying up. I have not been able to reproduce this, but I have never vaped that way before. Holding it in a normal position, I do not get any dry hits. Wick seems to keep up just fine. Performace wise there probably isn't any difference between this and a properly set up hybrid wick. For me, although I never did it except the one time on purpose, I am weary about burning the cotton. I know this is just in my head. I know alot of people are using cotton. Like I said I only ever burned the cotton when I tried to burn it, but that thought is alway in the back of my head. With enough time, I am sure that will fade.

 

[EDO]

Bail804, Thanks for the reply....I appreciate it. I did check it out. Well what he suggested is one of the traditional way of wrapping coils....it won't work very well for most people using SS mesh. But it will work great with the hybrid wick or the ceramic wick. When you have an non conducting wick it doesn't matter what method you use to wrap it. The only reason I mentioned the peter K method with the hybrid wick is b/c I wanted people to set it up so that they can use it more than a few days. It sounds like the ceramic wick set up is only going to work for a few days before you have to take it apart and redo the coil....but that is an assumption on my part...let me know how it goes for you.

I am surprised that you are so concerned about inhaling burned cotton...but not afraid of inhaling whatever it is they used to bind the silica stones.

Edit: I forgot to mention....silica dust is highly carcinogenic....it is like asbestos. Probably you won't inhale any in finished product, but make sure you wear a quality mask when making the wicks. I would buy the finished product when it comes out and not make my own.

 

[bail804]

EDO,
I know what you mean about the cotton...like I said...it's all in my head. I am enjoying some AV Flue Cured on a hybrid wick as I type this. It really is a great and easy set up and vapes really well.

Safety first for sure. I wet the stone, used a mask, and also set up a fan blowing from the side, across my grinding and out the garage door. I dont want to get any dust from an unknow source in my lungs. I placed a call to petsmart and they are supposed to be sending me info on the material. After I blazed it with a tourch for several minutes and watched it turn cherry red all the way through without changing the material, I felt pretty safe using it.

I think the appeal of the ceramics is simplification. Even with the Hybrid set up, the whole SS wick idea is a pain. You have to navigate the 325, 400, 500, 635 issues. Then you have to decide between solid or straw, loose or tight, oxidized or not. If you ozidize, do you jack frost or wait till after the roll? Drip and burn juice? Peter K or free hand the coil? Its all very complicated. Weather or not the ceramics end up being the answer for the ultimate wick will soon be decided. I have hope, but probably not. It is very brittle. Everone is so optimistic right now, but soon the negatives will start to show. Everything has its +'s and -'s.

So for now I will continue to use both, as I find pleasure in both. The Hybrid is easy to set-up, but the cotton has to be changed out as it does get funky with time. The ceramic wick is simple, no debate, no complicated decisions to make, but it is brittle, as I have now broken two of them.

I didn't mean to turn your thread into debating the merits of the the two. The Hybrid set up is truely a great set-up. It simplifies the original idea, making it easy, reliable, and serviceable. Most importantly...it works. Thats what we are looking for. Something that works. For giving me a way to use the Genesis Atty that does work, I am most greatful. Thanks for starting this thread and sharing your knowledge.

 

[EDO]

Ok...cool.... for a minute I thought you were doing things like Dan showed in the video...it seems he got all that dust all over his work bench...which is not safe at all IMHO. I am such a klutz...that I know the ceramic most likely will never work out for me....I would be breaking the wicks left and right. It seems that we can't catch a break in terms of a truly ideal wick. But I will try it out when they get mass produced.

About servicing the cotton....you can always slide out the wick...take a small piece of paper towel and simply roll the wick in the paper towel between your fingers....it gets most of the gunk out of the cotton. I do this every two days..Personally I like some gunk in the cotton... it gives a richer vape. I change the cotton only once a week.

 

[bail804]

Cool. I will try that when it starts getting a little funky. It may be just my taste buds...but it seems to me when the cotton starts getting gunky, The flavor starts to diminish. Kind of like how a carto does. I never had any luck dripping...at all. Never could get the hang of it. Burnt or flooded...rarely anything in between. So I have spent the last 2 years using carto tanks. Which is strange, because most people dont like the "filler" taste, but I dont get that from them...or at least I don't reconize it. Tried just about every new tanks style that has come down the pike.. Nothing worked for me as good as a tanked carto. The thing I hate about the carto is the flavor goes away so quickly for me. I read about people using them for weeks and weeks and I am lucky to get a few days before I have to chuck one. I have also had concerns about burning the filler. Tha'ts the appeal of the Genesis for me. No More filler to gunk up the taste!!! I guess that is another reason I have an adversion to the cotton. My hopes were to get far far away from any type of filler material. I have been using this Hybrid for a few days...maybe a week now. I do inspect the cotton each time I change it. So far, I have not come across any signs of it being burnt...which is a good thing.

 

[gdeal]

EDO - I dont know if you trust my word...lol but I just put together a setup with a ceramic wick. I used the same precautions as bail804. Using a wet sanding technique removed all dust and actually made the process much easier. I also used the Petar K coil method. (It is by far the best method to form a coil) The only difference that I used was to release the tension after forming the coil. I release the top positive connection, then inserted the wick and re-tighten. I do not think that I will have any more difficulty with removing the ceramic wick than a ss mesh wick. It is is still early with ceramic, so I can not say it is better than what you are saying here. Its just different. The ceramic is not that durable, but is not fragile. I created a 2.3 mm wick. I shorten it by snapping a bit off the top. It reminded me of when you break off a piece of candy candy cane. So I would not toss it around...

BTW if cotton had the durability of of SS mesh, it would be all that I use for a wick. I dont think anything can provide the taste/vape that cotton does. In fact the best vape I ever had was on a Vivi nova with cotton. The issue was that it only lasted for one tank and then I was back to to re-wicking/recoiling.

Sorry to take you thread OT. All good stuff.

 

[bail804]

Now I will say this. The flavor out of the Genesis set up is better than ANYTHING I have used before. It may well be the carto was muting the flavor and the filler was covering up some of the taste. But the Genesis is in a leage of its own for taste...at least for me. Of cource thats when you figure out all the variables and get the set-up the juice you are using requires.

 

[EDO]

Gdeal...I'll take your word for it...because from reading some of your posts including the one above, Ican tell you know what a well set up genny is supposed to taste like. The fact that you think the petar K method is "by far the best method" to set up a genny using ss mesh means you can taste the difference. All the problems with using SS mesh stems from the fact that it conducts electricity....no amount of oxidation will change that fact. If oxidation was the solution we wouldn't see all these posts about how to set up a Genny properly. If you have a wick that doesn't conduct electricity and it wicks well while being durable....then you will have foolproof wick and all these posts about how to set up a genny will disappear. So the ceramic wick might be the answer. I just have been down this road so many times before where people hype up a wick or filler material then you end up seeing it doesn't work out as people expected. Even the ss mesh was supposed to the be all and end all ....but as we know it is full of problems. So I am being cautiously optimistic about the ceramic wick....but I can't help to think that in a few short weeks, when these are mass produced, we will see a whole new set of posts regarding problems with the ceramic wick.

The fact that you love cotton wicks and the Petar K method...leads me to the conclusion that you might like what I am suggesting here. The reason I started using a hybrid wick wasn't because I was having problems with ss mesh...it was because I saw so many people having problems setting up a genny. I wanted to see if there was a easier way...a more foolproof way that I can recommend to people. To my surprise not only is it easier to set up a hybrid wick but it also is more stable because there are no micro shorts when you have a cotton insulation (Micro shorts actually move your coil gradually and this lead to instability after vaping on the coil for a while). Once you set up a hybrid wick you really never have to adjust the coils again. But the real kicker for me was that it actually tastes better than ss mesh wick. I don't know what the cotton does but it is a richer vape. SO if you have more than one genny, set one of them up using the hybrid wick and do a side by side test with the ceramic wick..let me know what you think. I'll take your word for it.

 

[48lowes]

My best advise to you is to use the 32g wire... 4 wraps to start off with...it works on all setups. Later on you can experiment. Let me know how it works out for you.

Sometimes I just don't pay attention. I will start over and go the 4 wraps of 32g. Also I'll wrap about 35mm of mesh wick.
I have been busy trying this and that with varying success. In short I tried the 35mm of mesh rolled up like a straw. I have a hard time to get the initial capillary action, I finally took my syringe/filler and opened up the fill hole pushed air till it comes out of the wick. Things were going good, flavor like you could almost swear it was wet. Well then I set it on it's side, I forgot to reinstall the fill screw and drained ½ tank into the mouthpiece. After that the tank was ½ full and I'd put the screw back in. I could in no way get it to wick as it's supposed to screw in or out. So I pulled it apart and and tightened up the wick so there was no hole in the middle. The dry hits I was getting scorched the cotton and left a black space on the wick material. I inverted the wick made it a hybrid and wrapped a new coil at 2Ω. I left out the fill screw and primed with my syringe, back to vape haven, put the screw back in and within 3 hits it's a dry hit again. Pull the screw prime it up and back to good vape, until the tank was about ½ full and then I could no longer get it to wick. My 2Ω coil with 30g was too long and took higher voltage to get that to work. Oh and the juice left in the tank had turned much darker, which I remember reading in some other posts. So I'm going to try #500 screen at 35mm wide wrapped with 4 turns of 32g, I also think I won't use the straw method.

 

[EDO]

48lowes....oh man....I just assume people know this stuff... I forget to give the little details that are so important. I just assume people know you have to line up the air hole and the wick. I assume people know to leave the fill screw out...always. I assume people know to always set their gennys upright. I assume people know that you have to do the genesis tilt if you have a straw like wick. I assume people know that a more solid wick will actually wick....meaning it has capillary action while a straw like wick is exactly that...a straw... and you have to tilt at least 90 degrees for each vape (You have to tilt more when the juice is running low). I assume people know that the wick should be in the 6 oclock position when vaping. All these assumptions make me a bad instructor.

Normally, I would assume that you know how to roll a wick...but I won't do that.... so I will give you a detailed instruction on making the wick solid. You make the first roll as small as possible with your fingers (no pin needed)...you have to go back and forth a few times to do this. after this you only roll the wick in one direction....think of it as you are trying to roll up a tiny springy Persian rug....you don't go back and forth...you roll in one direction....while not letting up on the tension at any point while rolling.....if you let go of the tension it will unravel. If it does...no biggy start over. Once you roll the wick all the way....apply more pressure and keep rolling and rolling between your fingers to set the wick. Now you want to size it. If you roll in the same direction as you initially rolled it...it will tighten the wick and make it narrower and if you roll back it will make the wick a little looser and thicker. SOme poeple like to torch their mesh a little first...it makes rolling them a little easier.

I assume you saw that Bail804 had similar problems. IF you are trying to make a 2 ohm coil, the best and most responsive coil will be the 32awg. I gave him detail instructions as to why (check a few post up). It is not intuitive and people who have been using gennys for a while now still haven't figured it out....and keep recommending the 30g wire and the 28g wire to people in every situation. For example the 28g wire will only work effectively for people who have a mechanical mod. I only use the 30g wire when I want a mellower vape...how's that for counter intuitive?....using a lower resistance wire for a mellower vape.

If you have more problems let me know.

 

[tuckandroll]

Ok....so I have been taking my time with my first ginny. I bought a agaT and to this point have sanded the lid to line up the air hole, I have 325, 400, 500 mesh on hand and 3 gauges of kanthol. I have spent the rest of the time watching videos on youtube and reading to avoid the frustration of the trial and error.....Kinda the reason for ecf right..not that I mind helping out if I knew what I was talking about.....ask me a question about cartos, dcts I got you....so I do greatly appreciate all the info though I cant say I have a definitive answer to how to start my set up yet....I actually saw a video of someone using a solid wick inside of a straw wick. He swears by it. Prolly my first attempt will be this method...best of both worlds if you think about it logically, but I have learned in the vaping world logically is not always the right way. BTW, i have to stick with the higher ohms due to the fact both my mods are zmax v2s. But I do appreciate everything. Especially the tip on the washers on the pos post. I will be sure to send pics and give feedback when I get this venture underway, I am new to ecf and therefore am not on here much with info but I love the info that is available to use and cannot wait to return the favor for my fellow vapers.

 

[EDO]

tuckandroll.... your welcome.

I am sorry but I don't get the logic of straw/solid combo wick at all....could you post the video link?

Anyway..... my recommendations....for your first build...keep it simple....use about 50mm of the 500 mesh and roll it the way I described above. Use kanthal32... 4 wraps. Don't mess with the 30g and the 28g wire....unless you like being frustrated.

If you try and try and can't get a decent initial set up check out the first link in the OP. Good luck.

 

[XfooYen]

tuckandroll.... your welcome.

I am sorry but I don't get the logic of straw/solid combo wick at all....could you post the video link?

Anyway..... my recommendations....for your first build...keep it simple....use about 50mm of the 500 mesh and roll it the way I described above. Use kanthal32... 4 wraps. Don't mess with the 30g and the 28g wire....unless you like being frustrated.

If you try and try and can't get a decent initial set up check out the first link in the OP. Good luck.

I think he's talking about having a silica or cotton wick in the center of the ss wick.

 

[EDO]

Xfooyen, you could be right. However, I have heard of a solid wick referring to a solid ss mesh wick.... never heard of a solid cotton/silica wick.

 

[48lowes]

48lowes....oh man....I just assume people know this stuff... I forget to give the little details that are so important. I just assume people know you have to line up the air hole and the wick. I assume people know to leave the fill screw out...always. I assume people know to always set their gennys upright. I assume people know that you have to do the genesis tilt if you have a straw like wick. I assume people know that a more solid wick will actually wick....meaning it has capillary action while a straw like wick is exactly that...a straw... and you have to tilt at least 90 degrees for each vape (You have to tilt more when the juice is running low). I assume people know that the wick should be in the 6 oclock position when vaping. All these assumptions make me a bad instructor.

I've read and read, all over ECF, it's putting these things together that an immeasurable help. So it just turns out that this will have to be my at home vape, no biggie. I've already lost the other screw so I won't have that problem again in the near future. I went with #500 screen and 28g kanthol. I haven't tried it yet cause I switched back to the dct to ease my frustrations. At a low voltage it's amazing how good the dct tastes, vapes clouds too.

Taking the time to explain things to people new to these rebuildable's makes you a very good and very patient instructor. My thanks for your efforts. I'll be back with how I make out probably tomorrow. It's good to see a few more people getting on board this thread, I believe it to be the fastest and easiest methods to mastering the gennys.

I believe I saw the same video tuckandroll did. It was the straw wick and then another wick rolled solid that just fit into the straw. It's on U-tube, I couldn't tell you how I stumbled upon it. Both wicks made from stainless screen.

 

[carcen5]

EDO...brilliant idea of hybrid wick for us new comers to the ss mesh and thank you for sharing. I've found Pk best (for me) making coils, but as easy as that method may be, the frustration of building a perfect coil (mine 1.8ohm, 32kan) , only to watch it fluctuate the ohms after inserting the wick was just kind of a let down. I've gotten a stable coil now, after much trial, error and understanding of mesh/wire interaction. It's one thing to read about it, it's another thing to do and learn from it.

I'm going happily yank my stable wick and give this method a try, have #500 mesh and will try a solid wick, wich I have not done before. I'm using a cobra clone; and have been pleased with my results so far, at least not enough to force me to abandon the genesis. But I kno I'm far from "sweet spot".
Apologies in advance for asking or forcing to repeat yourself, but you never once touch the mesh with a flame? In my brief experience, I've never over-oxidized, but light torch using "jack frost" method, roll and fit, and then I do one or two "juice burns" before inserting wick.(I do end up oxidizing top of wick, but that's different story). I will not do any of this, strictly following your hybrid wick, as it seems to address all the problems I'm having with my wick/coil method.