Petar K Method with a hybrid Wick

[bail804]

RiP Trippers "Wicking Tips For Stainless Steel Mesh" is the youtube vid I think you are talking about. Sorry, I don't know how to post links or I would have done it. He gives credit to MWA1024 for coming up with the idea. I searched it once and found the thread, but basically you make a straw type SS wick, then make a smaller soild SS wick that fits inside of that one.

EMO,
I have continued to use both wick set-ups, hybrid and stone. I have a question about the hybrid. I can't seem to get the wick out after it starts to gunk up without damaging the coil. I try to be careful, but I cant seem to get it out. Am I waiting too long? or am I using too much cotton? Or am I possible getting every thing a little too tight? Can you post a close up pic of your set-up so I can see how tight you have every thing?
Also, Have you tried to use cotton gauze wrap around the top of the wick? I had mentioned earlier, I can't seem to find a roll of cotton, so I have been busting up a cotton ball to wrap my wick. Have you tried using 1 or 2 wraps of cotton gauze around the SS wick? It seems like it might make for a "cleaner" wrap and make it eaiser to remove when it get gunked up. Didn't want to waste time and money if you had already tried it.

 

[48lowes]

EDO I rolled a solid wick. I've gotten the hybrid method down pretty well. I still cannot seem to get capillary action going. Even when I hold the wick down (6 o'clock) and tilted toward my mouth, I get a couple half decent hits then dry. I'm going to go try 50mm #500 mesh right now. Manwas I off on the #500 mesh, it was about 32mm.

 

[EDO]

I'm going happily yank my stable wick and give this method a try, have #500 mesh and will try a solid wick, wich I have not done before. I'm using a cobra clone; and have been pleased with my results so far, at least not enough to force me to abandon the genesis. But I kno I'm far from "sweet spot".
Apologies in advance for asking or forcing to repeat yourself, but you never once touch the mesh with a flame? In my brief experience, I've never over-oxidized, but light torch using "jack frost" method, roll and fit, and then I do one or two "juice burns" before inserting wick.(I do end up oxidizing top of wick, but that's different story). I will not do any of this, strictly following your hybrid wick, as it seems to address all the problems I'm having with my wick/coil method.

I always very lightly torch the mesh to clean it of residues left from the manufacturing process. I think one of my posts may have confused you....when I said I don't flame burn my wick in response to someone who mentioned that I should flame burn eliquid off of the wick....that meant I don't add eliquid to the wick and burn it off.

It is unfortunate that Petar used a crappy cheap ... lighter to flame his wick....many people think that was his trick in making the set up work. When I lightly torch my mesh....I don't get the carbon build up like we see in his video. And if any is there it is removed mostly with my fingers when I roll the wick.

BTW....you broke the first rule of Genesis set ups....don't yank a stable set up. It is the first and most
broken rule for Gennys.

Let me know how you new builds are going.

 

[EDO]

I have continued to use both wick set-ups, hybrid and stone. I have a question about the hybrid. I can't seem to get the wick out after it starts to gunk up without damaging the coil. I try to be careful, but I cant seem to get it out. Am I waiting too long? or am I using too much cotton? Or am I possible getting every thing a little too tight? Can you post a close up pic of your set-up so I can see how tight you have every thing?
Also, Have you tried to use cotton gauze wrap around the top of the wick? I had mentioned earlier, I can't seem to find a roll of cotton, so I have been busting up a cotton ball to wrap my wick. Have you tried using 1 or 2 wraps of cotton gauze around the SS wick? It seems like it might make for a "cleaner" wrap and make it easier to remove when it get gunked up. Didn't want to waste time and money if you had already tried it.

Hey bail804...Sorry...You can't post a link and I can't post a pic of my set up.lol I am not technologically advanced. I still have a flip phone for the love of god. When I come across pictures on the internet I can post those pictures here but I don't know how to post a picture of my own.

Are you using too much cotton? ... the fact that you asked the question... means you are using too much cotton. Basically it is the single thinnest layer of cotton going around the mesh...once. Coincidentally Yesterday I tried to see if any of the gauze we had at home was thin enough to use....none were even close. Just try to pull the thinnest layer of cotton and roll it around the mesh...I actually just use my fingers to pull and form the cotton before I roll it around the mesh. You might find a cotton swab helpful.

The trick to pulling a stuck SS wick or hybrid wick is to rotate it and slide it out at the same time. Now the real trick for a very stubbornly stuck wick is to try and rotate it in the direction of the wick that you originally rolled the wick. If you roll it in the opposite direction...you are widening the wick and trying to pull it out at the same time.....that is counter productive. If you roll the wick in the same way that you initially rolled it and try to slide it out...you are actually tightening the wick and making it thinner...so it will be easier to pull out. I hope this made sense to you.

How is the ceramic wick holding up? Give me a side by side comparison.

 

[EDO]

EDO I rolled a solid wick. I've gotten the hybrid method down pretty well. I still cannot seem to get capillary action going. Even when I hold the wick down (6 o'clock) and tilted toward my mouth, I get a couple half decent hits then dry. I'm going to go try 50mm #500 mesh right now. Manwas I off on the #500 mesh, it was about 32mm.

Try using more mesh...see if that helps. My cotton always looks wet and saturated. Are you sure your not using too much cotton? see my response to Bail. If you are not using too much cotton....Are you using decent cotton?....try a different cotton...sound to me you might not be using real cotton. If you are tilting and still getting dry hits....that is just odd.

 

[tuckandroll]

edo.....Wicking Tips For Stainless Steel Mesh - YouTube

 

[carcen5]

I always very lightly torch the mesh to clean it of residues left from the manufacturing process. I think one of my posts may have confused you....when I said I don't flame burn my wick in response to someone who mentioned that I should flame burn eliquid off of the wick....that meant I don't add eliquid to the wick and burn it off.

It is unfortunate that Petar used a crappy cheap ... lighter to flame his wick....many people think that was his trick in making the set up work. When I lightly torch my mesh....I don't get the carbon build up like we see in his video. And if any is there it is removed mostly with my fingers when I roll the wick.

BTW....you broke the first rule of Genesis set ups....don't yank a stable set up. It is the first and most
broken rule for Gennys.

Let me know how you new builds are going.

Thank you for the clarification as that makes sense and consistent with my experience trying the hybrid approach. I was actually confused if you implement the "e-liquid burn off", as for some reason it's stuck in my mind that this helps capilary action.

My first attempt at hybrid method was solid #500 mesh wick(cut enough length to make 2 wicks), easily slide through installed coil, I e-liquid burned 2 times, by no means charred, but prob expanded wick just enuf that when wrapped in cotton, slidding it thru coil pushed off all the cotton. Set aside in glass of vg for later use.

Ok...grabbed 2nd wick(had already cleaned with fire before rolling) and this time no more flame, very patiently wrapped even threads of cotton around coil area, this time i noticed coil wanted to "grab" the cotton as apposed to previous wick, fit snugly into coil position. Gave it min to make sure natuaral wicking had reached the top, checked the resistance(provari) and was stable 1.8 ohm. Slowly working the voltage up to break in coil check hotspots(there were none), ohm never changed. Awesome!

Now feeling pretty good about this, I dialed into my happy-watt vaping power(8-9 watts) and prepared for the worst, as this is when I'd get radical ohm flux or hot wire lead, short etc, pressed fire button...FINALLY!! The flavor was even spot on from the beginning

This is why I broke the cardinal rule of which you mentioned, and I agree, with many genesis setups I have read "when it's set up properly you'll know", and even though my previous wick was working fine, I just didn't have that "this is it" feeling. hope that makes sense and my actions are now in someway excusable) Now, I feel like I don't have a "project", but a pretty darn good atty
Haven't had the need to clean yet, but I don't foresee that being any issue.

Thanks again for the response and all the helpful tips, as I'm sure if can be frustrating at times for those with experience to deal with those that lack it. and this time I'm not going to break the cardinal rule...I hope my OCD won't get in the way either

 

[EDO]

edo.....Wicking Tips For Stainless Steel Mesh - YouTube

Thanks for the link....I suspected that you had been watching an old video. In terms of the gennys...the video is ancient. At that time everyone was making their wicks like Mike Zen...straw like. So a second wick inside the hollow wick made an improvement...I guess. later people started making solid wicks and saw that the wicking tremendously improved. After that it got ridiculous and people made their wicks ridiculously solid... they kept rolling it and oxidizing and rolling and oxidizing their wicks so that the wick was almost like a nail...this is actually counter productive.

The way I described how to roll a wick (a few posts up), is the best wicking wick you will get....a solid, tightly rolled, un-oxidized wick that is still flexible.

 

[EDO]

Carcen5....Hey glad it worked out. You did something that I didn't mention...another small thing that I should have mentioned. You let the cotton rest and get soaked before firing it up. Sometimes the first few hits you will kind of taste the cotton...in order to avoid that you can do a few burns before starting to vape. The few burns will actually break in the cotton and the coil and the first vape will be excellent.

I think everyone should try the hybrid wick at least once even if they want to set it up the traditional way....just to make sure that their SS wick builds are up to par...in terms of taste, vapor production, and throat hit. I used to do the "drill bit" method and thought my builds were very good...they were not comparable to my recent Petar K builds. With the hybrid wick even some one who just started out can replicate a perfectly set up genny. It is like training wheels.... one day you will have to get rid of the cotton and do a straight Petar K build. But at least you will know what it should perform like when you do set it up. However, I do feel that with certain tobacco juices the cotton adds to the vape...makes the vape mellower and richer....so until something better comes along I will definitely keep it in my arsenal.

 

[bail804]

EDO,
I think you are right and I am using too much cotton. I will increase the size of the wick a bit and see if I can reduce the amount of cotton. I get what you mean about which way to twist the wick when removing it. The coils will grab it one way and release it the other as well as the expansion of the SS wick. The expansion twisting of the coil is something you MUST understand when setting up a proper "fishwick". (I think that is the term that has been coined for it). I am still using both set-ups. I made a duplicate Hybrid SS set-up and a "fishwick" set-up. Using the same # of wraps, same volts, same juice. I can play the "shell game" with my AGA-Ts and really can't tell the difference in vape quality. I will continue to use both set-ups as they both are working really great. The ceramic set up has a longer 1/2 life. I have vaped about 6-8 tanks of Boba's thru it and it is still in no need of service. When I get the cotton layer down to the correct size, I suspect, or at lest hope, it will need service less often. But it only takes a few minutes to do, so no biggy either way.

 

[EDO]

Bail...Regarding the hybrid wick set up....roll back the wick a little to make it ticker and add the wisp of cotton and size it in a way that initially the hybrid wick just slides in very easily. Later when the cotton expands it will hold everything together nicely.

I am impressed with your results with the ceramic wick. Boba's is a very thick juice...right? Eight tanks is no joke...and it still going strong. Maybe this WILL be next big thing....I am impressed. I figured people would have to do a set up every couple of days but it seems like it might outlast the coil before you need to take it apart and torch the wick.

I am going to give you a little secret...try to use nichrome 34 or 32 with it. Nichrome is a nightmare to set up on a SS wick...unless it is a very seasoned/used up mesh. But if you have a seasoned wick then it is a dream. The easiest set up...with the absolute best taste....a lot better than kanthal. I suspect that it will work beautifully with these ceramic wicks. The only problem might be at the positive lead (what else is new)....if you set up your AgaT with the washers on the positive post it won't be a problem. I really hope you have some nichrome at home and can try it out. If you have some and have any trouble setting it up let me know.

 

[bail804]

EDO,
I do have some Nichrome that came with a Chid I purchased. Not sure what size it is though. I have been getting the best results using A1 30. What I like best, is lower res wire with more wraps. This might be why I dont seem to have a problem with the positive lead on the AGA-T. I have yet to get a hot spot. When it's time...like you said don't mess with a working genny....I will try the Nichrome.

 

[EDO]

Ok...hopefully you have Nichrome 32....very similar in resistance to the Kanthal 30. Even if they sent you Nichrome 34 you might like the vape more than your current set up. IMO Nichrome on a SS mesh is the best possible vape...but if there are any shorts in the wick it won't work. That is why on the ceramic I think it should be perfect. I am very curious regarding this...so when you try it out please let me know what you think.

 

[48lowes]

I don't get excited when things don't work exactly right for me in the e-cig world. I've got enough back ups now that I'm never at a loss for my next vape. So I've been trying different setups since my last post. Ive done a little reading on these ceramic wicks,the cutting edge and Scubadatdan is there as per usual. He sure has helped this industry move along with his constant tinkering and inventing. He has been a big help to me since I started,always willing to share and teach.

Well back to this stainless wick stuff, I'll wait awhile on the ceramics. I cut myself a 35mm X 35mm #500 stainless, torched it to take the newness off, rolled it tight and torched it again. Built a 4 wrap 32g kanthal coil 1.3 ohms as per Peter K, piece of cake. I'm vaping on my Z max as my gripper decided to act up. Now I find I'm going to have to do some searching around for juice I like cause everything tastes different now. I still have to use a little of the genesis tilt to keep a good feed. Really all I do is tilt to about
3 o'clock just a bit or I overpower, flood my coil. My thanks again for this thread. I'll be checking in for some more pointers every once in awhile.

 

[EDO]

48lowes...isn't 1.3ohms too close to the cut off of the Zmax? IF so add a wrap or else you might start getting error messages. I don't have a gripper but the low ohms might be the reason it wasn't working well on it. Did you set up with or with out the cotton?

I think I am going to wait on the ceramics as well...having read most of the posts lately....it seems it is not that easy to make. Most people snap them while grinding them down. Also the fish wicks as they like to call them only work well when they are about 1/8 inch tick. Almost no atty has a stock wick hole that would fit that. That involves too much modding for me....I rather wait for them to be commercially available.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Quick question on the Petar K method: how does it eliminate the conductivity of the mesh without the oxidizing step? I'm eager to try this method on my AGA-T2 (waiting on mesh and wire to be delivered) but I'm not sure I understand. The mesh should still contact the coil, correct?

I'm also eager to try this hybrid method. I was able to build one working wick and coil with the supplies that came with the AGA, but they gave me so little wire I'm stuck with my current coil (which does have a hot-spot at the top that I'm hoping to alleviate with the washer method described elsewhere -- picking up washers tonight).

Thanks!

 

[gdeal]

Quick question on the Petar K method: how does it eliminate the conductivity of the mesh without the oxidizing step? I'm eager to try this method on my AGA-T2 (waiting on mesh and wire to be delivered) but I'm not sure I understand. The mesh should still contact the coil, correct?

I'm also eager to try this hybrid method. I was able to build one working wick and coil with the supplies that came with the AGA, but they gave me so little wire I'm stuck with my current coil (which does have a hot-spot at the top that I'm hoping to alleviate with the washer method described elsewhere -- picking up washers tonight).

Thanks!

Yes the mesh comes in contact with the coil, but not like a traditional zen-style set-up which is wrapped a bit tighter.

EDO may have a different take on this but here is my 2c. Petar K skips the heavy oxidation process. (Torch red, quench, burn juice, etc...mix or match), but you will have some oxidation on the coil and mesh just from the normal set up process.

Electricity follows the path of least resistance, so when you set up Petar K style. your coil should have a bit of oxidation on it already. If you lightly clean your mesh with a torch, flame, etc. it will also have a bit of oxidation on it.

When you place your mesh into the coil, the key is to have minimal to no pressure between the coil and mesh material. This will minimize the amount of surface contact point and pressure between the two, so if you do have a short it will be a minor short. When you start to break in your coil/mesh wick, you start from the lower voltage and set in motion a self oxidation/insulation process which will resolve any minimal shorts.

This process builds upon itself to create the insulation needed to vape at higher power. With the hybrid method you are adding to the insulation by putting a bit of cotton on the mesh and accelerate that process or eliminate the need for it entirely.

You can re-use your wire and do this. While not optimal, it can be done. YMMV

 

[48lowes]

EDO this ohm thing is in my mind an iffy deal. I really don't know If these mods are that accurate. But my 1.3 ohm (as measured by the gripper) worked fine until I think the battery went low and then I couldn't turn it back on. It worked fine in my z max as well. I saw a review on utube about the zmax and how it measures RMS and should read true power???? I may have that screwed up but on an oscilloscope the wattage, voltage comes out different than what's on the led of the zmax.

I don't know how satisfied with the setup discussed in post#54. I don't seem to get that great a feed, nor do I get very much of noticeable "cloud of vapor". I also would like to know what the heck do you do with the syrup left in the bottom of the tank, that thick and dark leftover juice, you know what I mean.

Fish wick

That involves too much modding for me....I rather wait for them to be commercially available.

I'm with you on that still I do really appreciate the advances made by those willing to tinker.

 

[StaircaseWit]

Yes the mesh comes in contact with the coil, but not like a traditional zen-style set-up which is wrapped a bit tighter.

EDO may have a different take on this but here is my 2c. Petar K skips the heavy oxidation process. (Torch red, quench, burn juice, etc...mix or match), but you will have some oxidation on the coil and mesh just from the normal set up process.

Electricity follows the path of least resistance, so when you set up Petar K style. your coil should have a bit of oxidation on it already. If you lightly clean your mesh with a torch, flame, etc. it will also have a bit of oxidation on it.

When you place your mesh into the coil, the key is to have minimal to no pressure between the coil and mesh material. This will minimize the amount of surface contact point and pressure between the two, so if you do have a short it will be a minor short. When you start to break in your coil/mesh wick, you start from the lower voltage and set in motion a self oxidation/insulation process which will resolve any minimal shorts.

This process builds upon itself to create the insulation needed to vape at higher power. With the hybrid method you are adding to the insulation by putting a bit of cotton on the mesh and accelerate that process or eliminate the need for it entirely.

You can re-use your wire and do this. While not optimal, it can be done. YMMV

Okay, got it.

A couple follow-up questions if no one minds too much:

How do I keep my wick from slipping into the tank and contacting the bottom if the coil doesn't have a pretty good grip on it? Or is it "just tight enough" to not allow that? Sorry, I'd be trying all this myself if I had my mesh and wire, but for the time being I'm busy thought-experimenting. Is the non-oxidized wick not going to short when it touches the bottom of the tank (I'm talking on my AGA-T2 specifically).

So the cotton basically acts like the cigarette paper method, minus burning away the cotton -- it electrically insulates the coil from the mesh. Again, brilliant idea.

Thanks for the assistance. I can't wait to get this thing vaping away happily.

 

[EDO]

Gdeal...thanks there couldn't havebeen a better reply to StaircaseWit.

Staricase...when doing the peter K method.......you need to fit in you wick like he shows you in the video (maybe a tiny bit looser with a solid wick). In his video the wick is loose but it is just tight enough to offer some resistance, when trying to slip it out or in. Then you want to check your ohms and do some dry burns and check to see you have no hot spots and all coils are glowing evenly....then you fill the tank with liquid and do 5 x ten second burns. The build up of gunk on the coil will hold everything together nicely. Peter makes his wicks straw like...so he makes his wicks short and he tilts when vaping. If you make normal more solid wicks, you have to make the wick long so it almost will reach the bottom of the tank....and be a few mm above the top coil.