Petition

[e-pipeman]

I have just submitted a petition to 10, Downing Street online re: the use of e-cigs in public places. I fully expect that it will be knocked back, but when it is rejected it will be interesting to note what the reasons are for doing so. I must stress that this isn't online yet and has to go through an approval process first:

"We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to confirm that
the use of electronic cigarettes, pipes and personal vaporisers
is allowed in public places.

As electronic cigarettes and pipes do not involve the
combustion of tobacco or present a risk of passive smoking to
non-smokers this petition seeks confirmation that the use of
such devices in public places is acceptable."

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[surbitonPete]

Perhaps you should have changed that to 'enclosed' public places.

 

[e-pipeman]

Let's see what their response is, Pete. It will be interesting if they say that they cannot run the petition as the product is still undergoing health tests, for example. "Public places" should cover both indoors and outdoors.

 

[surbitonPete]

Let's see what their response is, Pete. It will be interesting if they say that they cannot run the petition as the product is still undergoing health tests, for example. "Public places" should cover both indoors and outdoors.

To be honest I am not really sure we need a petition because the fact is it 'isn't' illegal to vape in public places at all.....it's only down to the owners or managers of the places to decide if they want to let us vape on their premises because we aren't breaking any of the tobacco laws at all.

But I guess it will be interesting to see what they have to say.

 

[e-pipeman]

Indeed - but it's a grey area. As vapers we don't have the right to vape. We sit in an uneasy no-man's-land being neither illegal nor being able to vape as of right. Some clarification of our position would be helpful. Mainly I'm interested in Government response to the request as it may indicate the way in which they intend things to go.

 

[surbitonPete]

Indeed - but it's a grey area. As vapers we don't have the right to vape. We sit in an uneasy no-man's-land being neither illegal nor being able to vape as of right. Some clarification of our position would be helpful. Mainly I'm interested in Government response to the request as it may indicate the way in which they intend things to go.

I agree it would be nice to have the government clarify that it is 'legal' to vape...but it certainly isn't against the law to vape anyway as the laws stand. It's only because of confusion that some people are saying no to vaping on their premises.

 

[e-pipeman]

They have the right to say "no" when we are on their premises. If someone sees a vaper he or she may feel that they're lighting up. The petition isn't really about that - it's asking for confirmation that it is acceptable to vape in public places from the Government's standpoint. As I understand it a landlord of a pub can stop you doing anything on his premises, whether it's legal or not. It's wholly in his discretion.

 

[surbitonPete]

They have the right to say "no" when we are on their premises. If someone sees a vaper he or she may feel that they're lighting up. The petition isn't really about that - it's asking for confirmation that it is acceptable to vape in public places from the Government's standpoint. As I understand it a landlord of a pub can stop you doing anything on his premises, whether it's legal or not. It's wholly in his discretion.

Yes they have always had the right to stop smokers from smoking but they never did it until it was made illegal.

The government has made us all feel like kids now .....we have to ask for permission to do things even if they are legal.

 

[e-pipeman]

Yes-there was a time when grown-up people could indulge in grown-up pleasures without fear of reproach. Now that they've banned smoking they're on to alcohol and food...where will it all end?

 

[surbitonPete]

Yes-there was a time when grown-up people could indulge in grown-up pleasures without fear of reproach. Now that they've banned smoking they're on to alcohol and food...where will it all end?

Yes I thought it was great to become a grown man and no longer have to ask for anyone's permission to do anything......but now I feel just like a schoolboy who has to put his hand up and ask for permission to do anything at all.

 

[ApOsTle51]

nothing like ruffling a few feathers...be interested to see how this all pans out

 

[e-pipeman]

It all pans out like this:

I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected.

Your petition was classed as being in the following categories:

* Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate
channel

Further information: We suggest you check with the Department
of Health for further clarification: DH home : Department of Health


Hmmm....something's afoot.......

 

[Kate]

This is the recommendation of the World Health Organisation about this:

"WHO TobReg strongly recommended that these class of products not be exempted from clean air laws that restriction restrict cigarette smoke exposure (see WHO FCTC, Article 8) until adequate evidence is provided to assure the regulatory authority that use of the product will not expose people to toxic emissions."
*E-Cigtest, the ultimate electronic cigarettes review site and forum* Le site de la cigarette électronique - View Single Post - WHO - Marketers of electronic cigarettes should halt unproved therapy claims

If the government are forced to make a decision this would be the most logical advice to take.

 

[strayling]

This is the recommendation of the World Health Organisation about this:

"WHO TobReg strongly recommended that these class of products not be exempted from clean air laws that restriction restrict cigarette smoke exposure (see WHO FCTC, Article 8) ...

So if our personal vapourisers start to emit tobacco smoke then they'll be restricted. Glad that's all cleared up :-\

 

[Kate]

"... these class of products not be exempted from clean air laws ..." - as is, no smoke necessary.

 

[strayling]

Yeah, it's weasel wording at its finest. The problem I have with their statement is that it assumes that PVs fall under the scope of existing restrictions on tobacco smoking devices and would need to be exempted. It's the second part of the sentence that defies common sense: "... clean air laws that restriction restrict cigarette smoke exposure" (I left the word fumble in the sentence alone because it doesn't seem to change the meaning).

What I'm getting at is that if a device doesn't produce cigarette smoke then those particular restrictions cannot apply anyway. There are other clean air regulations which could apply, and I'm actually fine with that because I think the PVs will pass that with no trouble.

I'm not being randomly nit-picky here - if PVs get put in the same class as tobacco smoke then there will be no need to actually test the vapour because it's been condemned out of the gate. The phrase, "give a dog a bad name and hang him" springs to mind.

I don't think we've anything to fear from tests on the vapour produced by PVs but this looks awfully like a way for the regulators to save themselves the bother and simply ban them with no testing done. The burden of proving their innocence would then fall on PV manufacturers and that's just backwards and wrong.

 

[Kate]

Yes, it's guilty until proved innocent.

Second hand vapour might or might not be harmful ... we don't know yet so we're likely to be protected from the unknown.

As Tropical Bob would point out, we could always stop smoking with an approved, clean NRT.

 

[strayling]

I use a vapouriser because I like playing with it, blowing steam rings, enjoying the taste of the flavours and - not least - the nicotine hit. I don't see anything to be ashamed of in any of those things so I'm not at all interested in some NRT designed to feed an addiction in the least enjoyable fashion. If seeking enjoyment makes some people think I'm a bad person then I'll happily accept the title (and try to avoid meeting them and their ilk).

Hm. That sounded a bit angry, but I don't really mean it that way. It's more exasperation with the mindset that says if it's enjoyable it must be bad.

 

[Kate]

... exasperation with the mindset that says if it's enjoyable it must be bad.

I know the feeling.

 

[e-pipeman]

It's more exasperation with the mindset that says if it's enjoyable it must be bad.

This mindset has been on the ascendant over the last 30 years. Where once priggishness would have been met with contempt it is now met with approval. We live in strange times.