The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Petition

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by e-pipeman, Mar 5, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    I have just submitted a petition to 10, Downing Street online re: the use of e-cigs in public places. I fully expect that it will be knocked back, but when it is rejected it will be interesting to note what the reasons are for doing so. I must stress that this isn't online yet and has to go through an approval process first:

    "We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to confirm that
    the use of electronic cigarettes, pipes and personal vaporisers
    is allowed in public places.

    As electronic cigarettes and pipes do not involve the
    combustion of tobacco or present a risk of passive smoking to
    non-smokers this petition seeks confirmation that the use of
    such devices in public places is acceptable."

    I'll let you know what happens.
     
  2. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Perhaps you should have changed that to 'enclosed' public places.
     
  3. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    Let's see what their response is, Pete. It will be interesting if they say that they cannot run the petition as the product is still undergoing health tests, for example. "Public places" should cover both indoors and outdoors.
     
  4. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    To be honest I am not really sure we need a petition because the fact is it 'isn't' illegal to vape in public places at all.....it's only down to the owners or managers of the places to decide if they want to let us vape on their premises because we aren't breaking any of the tobacco laws at all.

    But I guess it will be interesting to see what they have to say.
     
  5. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    Indeed - but it's a grey area. As vapers we don't have the right to vape. We sit in an uneasy no-man's-land being neither illegal nor being able to vape as of right. Some clarification of our position would be helpful. Mainly I'm interested in Government response to the request as it may indicate the way in which they intend things to go.
     
  6. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    I agree it would be nice to have the government clarify that it is 'legal' to vape...but it certainly isn't against the law to vape anyway as the laws stand. It's only because of confusion that some people are saying no to vaping on their premises.
     
  7. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    They have the right to say "no" when we are on their premises. If someone sees a vaper he or she may feel that they're lighting up. The petition isn't really about that - it's asking for confirmation that it is acceptable to vape in public places from the Government's standpoint. As I understand it a landlord of a pub can stop you doing anything on his premises, whether it's legal or not. It's wholly in his discretion.
     
  8. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Yes they have always had the right to stop smokers from smoking but they never did it until it was made illegal.

    The government has made us all feel like kids now .....we have to ask for permission to do things even if they are legal.
     
  9. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    Yes-there was a time when grown-up people could indulge in grown-up pleasures without fear of reproach. Now that they've banned smoking they're on to alcohol and food...where will it all end?
     
  10. surbitonPete

    surbitonPete Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2009
    North Yorkshire UK
    Yes I thought it was great to become a grown man and no longer have to ask for anyone's permission to do anything......but now I feel just like a schoolboy who has to put his hand up and ask for permission to do anything at all.
     
  11. ApOsTle51

    ApOsTle51 Moved On ECF Veteran

    Aug 29, 2008
    UK
    nothing like ruffling a few feathers...be interested to see how this all pans out
     
  12. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    It all pans out like this:

    I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected.

    Your petition was classed as being in the following categories:

    * Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate
    channel

    Further information: We suggest you check with the Department
    of Health for further clarification: DH home : Department of Health


    Hmmm....something's afoot.......
     
  13. drlongjon
    This message by drlongjon has been removed from public view. Deleted by a moderator, Mar 5, 2009, Reason: Spam.
    Mar 5, 2009
  14. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    This is the recommendation of the World Health Organisation about this:

    "WHO TobReg strongly recommended that these class of products not be exempted from clean air laws that restriction restrict cigarette smoke exposure (see WHO FCTC, Article 8) until adequate evidence is provided to assure the regulatory authority that use of the product will not expose people to toxic emissions."
    *E-Cigtest, the ultimate electronic cigarettes review site and forum* Le site de la cigarette électronique - View Single Post - WHO - Marketers of electronic cigarettes should halt unproved therapy claims

    If the government are forced to make a decision this would be the most logical advice to take.
     
  15. strayling

    strayling Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 25, 2009
    Seattle, USA
    So if our personal vapourisers start to emit tobacco smoke then they'll be restricted. Glad that's all cleared up :-\
     
  16. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    "... these class of products not be exempted from clean air laws ..." - as is, no smoke necessary.
     
  17. strayling

    strayling Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 25, 2009
    Seattle, USA
    Yeah, it's weasel wording at its finest. The problem I have with their statement is that it assumes that PVs fall under the scope of existing restrictions on tobacco smoking devices and would need to be exempted. It's the second part of the sentence that defies common sense: "... clean air laws that restriction restrict cigarette smoke exposure" (I left the word fumble in the sentence alone because it doesn't seem to change the meaning).

    What I'm getting at is that if a device doesn't produce cigarette smoke then those particular restrictions cannot apply anyway. There are other clean air regulations which could apply, and I'm actually fine with that because I think the PVs will pass that with no trouble.

    I'm not being randomly nit-picky here - if PVs get put in the same class as tobacco smoke then there will be no need to actually test the vapour because it's been condemned out of the gate. The phrase, "give a dog a bad name and hang him" springs to mind.

    I don't think we've anything to fear from tests on the vapour produced by PVs but this looks awfully like a way for the regulators to save themselves the bother and simply ban them with no testing done. The burden of proving their innocence would then fall on PV manufacturers and that's just backwards and wrong.
     
  18. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    Yes, it's guilty until proved innocent.

    Second hand vapour might or might not be harmful ... we don't know yet so we're likely to be protected from the unknown.

    As Tropical Bob would point out, we could always stop smoking with an approved, clean NRT.
     
  19. strayling

    strayling Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 25, 2009
    Seattle, USA
    I use a vapouriser because I like playing with it, blowing steam rings, enjoying the taste of the flavours and - not least - the nicotine hit. I don't see anything to be ashamed of in any of those things so I'm not at all interested in some NRT designed to feed an addiction in the least enjoyable fashion. If seeking enjoyment makes some people think I'm a bad person then I'll happily accept the title (and try to avoid meeting them and their ilk).

    Hm. That sounded a bit angry, but I don't really mean it that way. It's more exasperation with the mindset that says if it's enjoyable it must be bad.
     
  20. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    I know the feeling.
     
  21. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    This mindset has been on the ascendant over the last 30 years. Where once priggishness would have been met with contempt it is now met with approval. We live in strange times.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice