PG is safe

[gashin]

Got this off a previous post's links:

"
Health Information

The toxicology database for PG has been reviewed and agreed upon by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) SIAM15 process. The oral toxicity of PG is low. In one study, rats were provided with feed containing as much as 5% PG over a period of 104 weeks and they showed no apparent ill effects.16 Because of its low chronic oral toxicity, PG is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) for use as a direct food additive. Since 1942, it has been included in New and Non-Official Remedies as a proper ingredient for pharmaceutical products and it is listed in the United States Pharmacopoeia. It is also widely used and accepted as an ingredient in dental preparations.17 PG is not approved for use in cat food.
Prolonged PG contact is essentially non-irritating to the skin. Undiluted PG is minimally irritating to the eye, and can produce slight transient conjunctivitis (the eye recovers after the exposure is removed). Exposure to mists may cause eye irritation, as well as upper respiratory tract irritation.18 Inhalation of the PG vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of PG mists may be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. In general, Dow does not support or recommend the use of PG in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations.19
PG does not cause sensitization and shows no evidence of being a carcinogen or of being genotoxic.20"


Propylene Glycol

 

[MagusSteele]

It is

Dow does not support or recommend the use of PG in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely

That everyone wonders about. It is safe, BUT, on the outside, people are wondering about Inhaled.

 

[MagusSteele]

May as well Post these here too.

Propylene Glycol USP/EP (PG USP/EP)

Propylene Glycol

 

[mr_mitch]

im really not convinced that the "PG" gas is safe.
Apparently there are 2 piecs of research going on at the moment. I would like to know when the results are expected???
and do we think they will prove things one way or the other?

 

[Kate]

I've read that propylene glycol vapour can cause respiratory tract irritation and eye irritation, nothing else. If you aren't getting symptoms you are likely not sensitive to it. When metabolised by our bodies the pg turns into lactic acid. This is something our bodies are used to producing and dealing with naturally. I don't know how easy it would be to overdose, I usually dilute my eliquid with vegetable glycerine.

 

[mr_mitch]

I've read that propylene glycol vapour can cause respiratory tract irritation and eye irritation, nothing else. If you aren't getting symptoms you are likely not sensitive to it. When metabolised by our bodies the pg turns into lactic acid. This is something our bodies are used to producing and dealing with naturally. I don't know how easy it would be to overdose, I usually dilute my eliquid with vegetable glycerine.

since starting esmoking (which has only been a day - and only 1 carts worth) ive been experiencing cold-like symptoms.

It could, obviously just be a cold. but, bit of a coincidence if it is!

 

[Kate]

It is good to be aware that you might have a sensitivity to pg or other ingredients in eliquid.

I'd suggest trying a non-pg juice from Johnsons Creek or mixing your own juice with a main base of vg. If you still have symptoms it might be that you really do have a cold.

 

[mr_mitch]

It is good to be aware that you might have a sensitivity to pg or other ingredients in eliquid.

I'd suggest trying a non-pg juice from Johnsons Creek or mixing your own juice with a main base of vg. If you still have symptoms it might be that you really do have a cold.

thanks. at the moment im back on marlboro light, and ill see if the cold-like symptoms dissapear.

If I was to get a non-pg liqud, what would it contain? the vegtable version? ive heard this has its negative effects too. its so confusing, isnt it! I wish I just knew if it was safe, one way or the other!

 

[Kate]

I know what you mean, I wish we could prove it's safe. All we have is anecdotal evidence a couple of lab reports and half a clinical trial. The problem is that we're doing something that people don't usually do, we are vapourising stuff to deliberately breathe in. Fog machines are the nearest to the technology and liquids we use I think and there's hardly any studies about them either. As time goes on we'll get more of an idea of the health issues, that's why it's important for us to keep each other informed about possible adverse reactions. If there are any problems we should be alert to them as soon as possible.

To be honest I think esmoking is a million times safer than smoking cigarettes. We know from clinical evidence that cigs definitely cause cancer and a multitude of other health problems. So far, as far as I know, with esmoking we have only discovered some sensitivity issues that can be avoided with a different type of eliquid. Analysis of components of eliquid put it in the probably harmless category. Nicotine might be harmful in large doses, I don't know much about that. Chances are that there are no carcinogens, there is no tar, blah, blah, you know the score with the sales talk.

Vegetable glycerine metabolises to glucose, again a substance our bodies are used to dealing with and thought to be harmless. However, apparently if vg gets too hot it changes to a substance which is a carcinogen. We all have to make up our own minds, based on available evidence, about whether this is a real risk with esmoking. Do our atomisers get hot enough? The only professional report I've seen about this says that Supersmoker atomisers do not. All atomisers are different so that doesn't conclusively prove anything. To me it's an acceptable risk, I know that there are many carcinogens in cigs, even if there is one in vapour I think it's a lower risk. As far as I know there are no other concerns about vg, it doesn't dry the throat or anything. Many of us use it in diy juice.

I don't know for sure what produces the vapour in Johnson Creek non-pg eliquid but chances are it's vg and maybe some alcohol.

 

[karenwest1961]

Who on this board has been using the e-cig longest? I've been 4 1/2 months, so I know it's not me. Rach has been since December. Not sure how long T-Bob has. Nobody has up and dropped dead yet...or turned into a zombie. So we'll keep an eye on that.

 

[Tumbleweed4829]

I started just smoking e-cigs 5 days ago and everyday have felt like I'm coming down with something but never actually getting sick other than feeling achy all over and a sore throat off and on. Today I actually got through the whole day with out a sore throat. I have been debating about stoping and just going back to real cigs but honestly I already can't stand being near someone smoking and I really do not want to start stinking again; that is my main motivation but tired of feeling tired and achy. I know we don't know how these e-cigs are affecting us and we're hoping they are not as bad as real cigs but we really have no idea. We're really just hoping for the best in all reality.

 

[MagusSteele]

Not E-Cigs, but I have been exposed to PG most of my adult life. About 25years.

 

[leaford]

Again, for the first few days e-smoking, it's perfectly normal to get a sore throat. There's an adjustment period while you get used to it. The achy feeling may be the extra lactic acid in your system; the PG breaks down to lactic acid, a fatigue poison normally produced by your body during muscle exertion. Again, once your system adjusts to it, it should ease up.It's normal. We've all been there.

 

[TropicalBob]

I'll echo Leaford's comments. I've e-smoked since January and the initial problems disappeared in a week or two. If for some reason propylene glycol disagrees with you, switch to vegetable glycerine-based liquid (offered by Johnson Creek).

 

[mr_mitch]

which is considered to be safer to smoke. propylene glycol, or vegetable glycerine?

has anyone got a link where you buy vg cartridges in the uk? I don't really feel confident to make my own liquid thingys yet. And I wont be able to make my own if it involves using a syringe.

 

[Kate]

We don't know which is safer Mitch, you'll have to make your own mind up about that. Both are probably pretty safe.

At the moment the only way to be sure of getting vegetable glycerine eliquid is to make your own. You don't have to use a syringe, you can mix in a bottle and use an eye dropper to drip onto your atomiser or cartridges - Beta Pipette Drop Bottles At Herbalists London - Baldwins. You can also soak your cartridges in an egg cup with eliquid in it to refill.

Johnson Creek make a non-propylene glycol eliquid which is likely to use veg glycerine. Smokester will have some in stock soon - Electronic Cigarette | Free Yourself... | e-cigs Liquid Some people are having problems with this juice, it's been clogging atomisers.

 

[pillbox38]

Lots of differing views on PG, the guy who ran the analysis for us recommends looking at using a different substance such as Glycerol.... SEE BELOW....


"All three nicotine solutions do appear to contain large amounts of propylene glycol aerosol forming solvent. Different suppliers of this chemical appear to offer differing hazard ratings on their respective MSDS’s. Some indicate no ill effects from inhalation which is fine, while others indicate CNS and spleen health issues may exist from prolonged inhalation of the chemical.

Researching the chemical profile for propylene glycol1 indicates that although there would appear to be ‘no current recognized health hazards’, the chemical is ‘suspected to be a respiratory toxicant’.
If Propylene Glycol subsequently becomes ‘recognized as a respiratory toxicant’ following the launch of the product in Europe, then ‘Pillbox 38’ should be looking for an even safer alternative such as Glycerol.

Only the MED nicotine solution contained traces of Triacetin, a noted cigarette additive with no identifiable risks.

6. Conclusion
On balance, the nicotine solution cartridges appears to offer a much safer alternative to the traditional cigarette. Apart from the required toxic Nicotine, the samples tested appear to be fairly clean and free from other potentially toxic chemicals.

Using this type of nicotine solution, the artificial smoke generated by an Electronic Cigarette would not appear to contain the toxic cocktail of toxic carcinogenic compounds found in traditional tobacco smoke. Some 600+ chemicals have been identified in traditional smoke tobacco, of which many are carcinogenic.

The primary aerosol forming solvent (Propylene Glycol) used in the preparation of the nicotine solution is listed as a ‘suspected respiratory toxicant’.

‘The Electronic Cigarette Co (UK) Ltd’ should look at changing the aerosol forming solvent from the suspected respiratory toxicant ‘Propylene Glycol’, to an even safer solvent such as Glycerol.


7. Recommendations
a) ‘The Electronic Cigarette Co (UK) Ltd’ should take a Proactive look at replacing the Propylene Glycol component completely with an alternative such as Glycerol, in the event that the solvent becomes added to the list of respiratory toxicants in the foreseeable future


8. References
• www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles; The Pollution Information
• Reference to 100 fatal poisonings in Panama resulting from a Chinese factory falsifying records in order to export the cheaper but toxic Diethylene Glycol as the more expensive Glycerol.





Analysts Name: Mike Ellicott
Function: Senior Applications Scientist
Signature: (hard copy only)________________


End of Report"

 

[jigtg]

Lots of differing views on PG, the guy who ran the analysis for us recommends looking at using a different substance such as Glycerol.... SEE BELOW....


"All three nicotine solutions do appear to contain large amounts of propylene glycol aerosol forming solvent. Different suppliers of this chemical appear to offer differing hazard ratings on their respective MSDS’s. Some indicate no ill effects from inhalation which is fine, while others indicate CNS and spleen health issues may exist from prolonged inhalation of the chemical.

Researching the chemical profile for propylene glycol1 indicates that although there would appear to be ‘no current recognized health hazards’, the chemical is ‘suspected to be a respiratory toxicant’.
If Propylene Glycol subsequently becomes ‘recognized as a respiratory toxicant’ following the launch of the product in Europe, then ‘Pillbox 38’ should be looking for an even safer alternative such as Glycerol.

Only the MED nicotine solution contained traces of Triacetin, a noted cigarette additive with no identifiable risks.

6. Conclusion
On balance, the nicotine solution cartridges appears to offer a much safer alternative to the traditional cigarette. Apart from the required toxic Nicotine, the samples tested appear to be fairly clean and free from other potentially toxic chemicals.

Using this type of nicotine solution, the artificial smoke generated by an Electronic Cigarette would not appear to contain the toxic cocktail of toxic carcinogenic compounds found in traditional tobacco smoke. Some 600+ chemicals have been identified in traditional smoke tobacco, of which many are carcinogenic.

The primary aerosol forming solvent (Propylene Glycol) used in the preparation of the nicotine solution is listed as a ‘suspected respiratory toxicant’.

‘The Electronic Cigarette Co (UK) Ltd’ should look at changing the aerosol forming solvent from the suspected respiratory toxicant ‘Propylene Glycol’, to an even safer solvent such as Glycerol.


7. Recommendations
a) ‘The Electronic Cigarette Co (UK) Ltd’ should take a Proactive look at replacing the Propylene Glycol component completely with an alternative such as Glycerol, in the event that the solvent becomes added to the list of respiratory toxicants in the foreseeable future


8. References
• www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles; The Pollution Information
• Reference to 100 fatal poisonings in Panama resulting from a Chinese factory falsifying records in order to export the cheaper but toxic Diethylene Glycol as the more expensive Glycerol.





Analysts Name: Mike Ellicott
Function: Senior Applications Scientist
Signature: (hard copy only)________________


End of Report"

Did they use gas chromatography or what? Before or after heating?

 

[pillbox38]

Good question...I have no idea...

 

[leaford]

Yes, the full report, which Pill posted in another thread, specified GC testing.