Mine are red and my lid closes fine .. every now and then my lid does crack open a little only when I'm pushing the feeder button but that's because I'm a GIRL and I cant push my feeder button like you can because I have finger nails, and because my fingers arent very strong enough for me to push with just the tip of my finger like I think you big boys do, I have to use the side of my thumb to push. So your lid probably wouldnt crack open ever whereas mine does once in a while. That said I've never tried a smaller 18650 to see if my lid cracks open with a smaller one, but with me using the side of my thumb I think it would happen even if there was a tiny battery in there. Wish Fono would make a GIRLY feeder button version. I bought my 3000 mah ones at Madvapes, 9.99 each.
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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Mine are red and my lid closes fine .. every now and then my lid does crack open a little only when I'm pushing the feeder button but that's because I'm a GIRL and I cant push my feeder button like you can because I have finger nails, and because my fingers arent very strong enough for me to push with just the tip of my finger like I think you big boys do, I have to use the side of my thumb to push. So your lid probably wouldnt crack open ever whereas mine does once in a while. That said I've never tried a smaller 18650 to see if my lid cracks open with a smaller one, but with me using the side of my thumb I think it would happen even if there was a tiny battery in there. Wish Fono would make a GIRLY feeder button version. I bought my 3000 mah ones at Madvapes, 9.99 each.
use two hands!
Seriously... once the bottle is broken in, you can even use the knuckle of your thumb if you tilt it up before you press it.... just some light pressure on the bottle will get the juice moving ... it just gets easier every day (although my juice bottle is a bit deformed)....
Agree with most of your comments and add that the eGo is PWM and comes in closer to 3.2V RMS as per oscilliscope readings taken by Scottbee a while back...
- however the observation is not a result of exceeding the current rating of the battery.... If you go back to where we made the observations, we're not comparing the Phidias to the eGo - the context was vs other 3.7V mods ... several of us have taken the same 18650's (or in my case 17670 AND RCR123a's) out of other mods and run them against the Phidias. In my case vs a V3 which has no wiring, no mosfets, and resistance is not measurable in 1/10 of an ohm... switching the same atty between the two, the Phid is much hotter and was burning juice with 1.5 Ohm attys at 3.7V as well as with 3.5 Ohm attys at 6V where on the V3 it was fine. I think it has more to do with a standard/closed atty connector on the Phid restricting the air flow (similar to the cone on an eGo) vs many of the other 3.7V mods that have raised/open connectors with deep wells allowing more open air flow..... either way, for whatever reason, many of us have observed a hotter or more efficient vape with the phid compared to using the same batteries and atties as on other devices.
I agree that heavy wiring is a good thing and may contribute, but i don't think its the explaination ....
I wasn't in on this huge thread from the beginning since I've had my Phidias maybe a month and read it a week or so before purchasing. I'd always thought that the extreme difference in heat was comparisons to the smaller commercial mods like the eGo, etc. and not other 3.7V mods. Obviously my comments do apply to the eGo comparison but its surprising that there is so much difference vs. other mods.
I've always liked a cooler vape. I even prefer a traditional 901 battery with some juices vs. any 3.7V mod I own since its too hot for me. That said for the majority of juices the Phidias is the most pleasing mod I've used. It looks great, feels nice in the hand. Once I learned how to feed the atty its so nice to be able to have a PV that I can grab in the morning and just use all day long. No messing with extra batteries, no need to carry a bunch of extra cartridges or be dripping from a bottle or refilling cartomizers, nothing to have but the Phidias itself.
Re: copper wiring. No huge advantage to say copper over aluminum. Its the fact that he uses nice big heavy wire. Size does matter when you're trying to deliver 2A of current to a LR atomizer. The switch must have a nice big current rating also. So everything in the path from battery to atomizer is capable of moving all that current to where it needs to go.
Wonder if the switch is a limiting factor on other mods?
I've always liked a cooler vape. I even prefer a traditional 901 battery with some juices vs. any 3.7V mod I own since its too hot for me. That said for the majority of juices the Phidias is the most pleasing mod I've used. It looks great, feels nice in the hand. Once I learned how to feed the atty its so nice to be able to have a PV that I can grab in the morning and just use all day long. No messing with extra batteries, no need to carry a bunch of extra cartridges or be dripping from a bottle or refilling cartomizers, nothing to have but the Phidias itself.
Re: copper wiring. No huge advantage to say copper over aluminum. Its the fact that he uses nice big heavy wire. Size does matter when you're trying to deliver 2A of current to a LR atomizer. The switch must have a nice big current rating also. So everything in the path from battery to atomizer is capable of moving all that current to where it needs to go.
Wonder if the switch is a limiting factor on other mods?
Aluminum is considered a good conductor
Copper is a great conductor (better than Aluminum), Silver is better...
ADD: most of the better mods should be using copper wire and if they are not, I'd be surprised....
You mean what is the advantage of THICKER copper wiring....
Great question- You did it again... made me think - save this one ;-)
Short answer - at 2.5 Amps, the difference between 24 gage wire and THICKER 20 gage wire over 1 foot is .08 Voltage drop... that's right just shy of 8/100'ths of a volt - ....
Explanation:
.... to save $ most mass producers use the thinnest wire they can get away with... to make the circuit more efficient you want to use thicker gage wire.... Original Joye 510s were designed to push 3.2V into a 2.6 ohm atty (about 3.9 watts). They can get away with a thinner gage wire because they have to pump less power through it so 24 gage wire is fine for them. Logic would have you think that if you want to push more current, thicker wire is necessary- that's fine for generalization but not always the case.... it depends on the length of the wire, and weather or not you approach the capacity of the wire ...
Just like a pipe at a certain diameter can only move a certain amount of water at a certain pressure without bursting or slowing down the flow, wire can only move a certain amount of power (current at voltage) without restricting the flow of electrons ADD: significantly, at some point too much current will generate too much power(heat) and cause it to burn up... when a builder builds a house, they use pipe that's big enough to carry the water to its destination based on building standards and maintain a certain pressure without bursting - generally they use no bigger pipe than necessary because it costs more and adds no perceptable value - 1/2 inch pipe is pretty much standard to service your bathroom ....
Same idea with a mass produced circuit.... there are industry standards that recommend a certain gage of wire for a certain type of conductor at a given amount of current and a given length and a given voltage - wire has an inherint resistance that causes a voltage drop- the thinner the wire the greater the resistance.... the circuit has to be designed so that the voltage drop across the wire does not exceed the wires capacity and so that the circuitry at the far end of the wire is adequately powered to perform the task it is designed for... Distance is a factor, so is conductor type (i.e. copper vs Aluminum vs Gold or Silver)...
if you want to get the full detail, this will explain it in technical terms and there's a nice calculator there that tells you the voltage drop over coper and aluminum wire when you supply the wire gage, the length, the load current and gives you the voltage drop as a percentage of the input voltage.
American Wire Gage table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies
Punch line:
using 1 foot of wire (more than is in your phid), a 2.5 Amp load (LR atty at 3.7V)-
.. the voltage drop with 24 Ga wire is 0.132V and the drop with 20 Ga wire is 0.08V
-The same calculation with 3V input yields the same result because we're not getting to the wire's capacity for carrying power ....
Answer: the difference between 20 Ga and 24 Ga at 2.5 Amps ( approximately same as with an LR atty at 3.7V) is .08V -
Is 20 Ga better than 24 Ga - well it'll get you an extra .08V- so yes- is it causing your 2 ohm atty to feel like a 1.5 ohm atty at 3.7V- no way.
Technically I'd say its reasonably overdesigned...
ADD: If you're comparing to aluminum wire, the numbers double but still not significant enough:
Over 1 foot at 2.5 A, 24 Ga aluminum wire drops .257V, 20 Ga aluminum wire drops .102 V...
Compare 24 Ga Aluminum wire to 20 Ga copper wire and you're closer to .15V- arguably better but not significant enough- and that's for a foot of wire, 6 inches might be closer so half that.... you get the point though... Going from Aluminum to copper halfs the voltage drop and going from 24 Ga to 20 Ga halves it again.... but half of next to nothing is still next to nothing.....
bsoplinger-
your post came in before I could get this out... Good question on the switches- but similar situation with the switch- Fono used a switch that exceeds the requirements of the circuit- most switches in most of the high end mods do... rather than saying that switches in other mods contribute to a significant voltage drop, you'd be better off saying that Fono used the same approach and made double sure that it doesnt contribute...
I've given this alot of thought and the only explaination I can come up with is restricted air flow from the needle and the closed connector.
ADD - final note: If you are really sharp you might be asking why didn't I just take the resistance off the table and come up with .015 Ohms difference between the 2 wires over 1 foot? Answer, because we're interested in the power delivered by the atty which is the Voltage at the Atty squared divided by its resistance....
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Great stuff,
One thing I do not understand is this talk of a closed connector...
I use the same 510 connector threads everyone else does, plus I do not use just plain unsealed connectors because I think the stock hole is unsatisfactory / too small...
I take sealed connectors, disassemble them drill them out myself too a larger spec--tin the center poles while they are disassembled and them rebuild them as to limit heat from soldering.
Crazy amount of work? Yeah, but I'm after performance...
So I don't get this closed connector thing..
What am I missing?
Thanks
fono
One thing I do not understand is this talk of a closed connector...
I use the same 510 connector threads everyone else does, plus I do not use just plain unsealed connectors because I think the stock hole is unsatisfactory / too small...
I take sealed connectors, disassemble them drill them out myself too a larger spec--tin the center poles while they are disassembled and them rebuild them as to limit heat from soldering.
Crazy amount of work? Yeah, but I'm after performance...
So I don't get this closed connector thing..
What am I missing?
Thanks
fono
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re: closed connector. My guess is that a normal 510 in a normal situation has a hole of X diameter and can allow Y cfm of airflow. But the setup of the Phidias with the needle going through the hole makes it appear it is Xp diameter and has a Yp airflow; both of which are noticeably smaller than the norm. Small enough that it seems to be a closed connector with the only (or mostly) airflow through the 4 holes in the threads of the atomizer.
One thing I do know for sure. My Phidias produces a warmer vape than any other "3.7V" device I own.
One thing I do know for sure. My Phidias produces a warmer vape than any other "3.7V" device I own.
ok,
But all 510s that are not bottom feeders have totally sealed connectors---the other bottom feeders I would guess use standard unsealed connectors for the needle to pass through...
I drill mine out over-sized---I doubt anyone else bothers to do that (but I do not know) so how in the world can mine be considered to restrict air flow??
I'm scratching my head here---It's still a mystery to me...but Thanks bsoplinger
Regards
fono
O' I get it--non bottom feeders have unrestricted 510 atty bases---
See I was thinking Apples while Jimho was talking about oranges...
I'm an Apple man all the way now---bottom feeders rule...
and to be clear, the misunderstanding was caused because it is not about connectors at all
it's about needles in 510 atty bases---connectors have nothing to do with it
At least that's my current understanding---could be wrong though
time will tell..
Regards
fono
PS. the hole through the center pole of atty is sealed against the connectors center pole in non bottom feeders---
Sigh, I'm back to square one---
I don't get it....can't make sense of it---I just don't get it
I even regret asking now....live and learn...somethings are better left unquestioned
But all 510s that are not bottom feeders have totally sealed connectors---the other bottom feeders I would guess use standard unsealed connectors for the needle to pass through...
I drill mine out over-sized---I doubt anyone else bothers to do that (but I do not know) so how in the world can mine be considered to restrict air flow??
I'm scratching my head here---It's still a mystery to me...but Thanks bsoplinger
Regards
fono
O' I get it--non bottom feeders have unrestricted 510 atty bases---
See I was thinking Apples while Jimho was talking about oranges...
I'm an Apple man all the way now---bottom feeders rule...
and to be clear, the misunderstanding was caused because it is not about connectors at all
it's about needles in 510 atty bases---connectors have nothing to do with it
At least that's my current understanding---could be wrong though
time will tell..
Regards
fono
PS. the hole through the center pole of atty is sealed against the connectors center pole in non bottom feeders---
Sigh, I'm back to square one---
I don't get it....can't make sense of it---I just don't get it
I even regret asking now....live and learn...somethings are better left unquestioned
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Don't regret it- I never said it was bad, just different - many of the higher end mods have custom connectors with Juice wells exposing the vent holes... certainly the ones I'm used to using or investigated - The Prodigy V3 I can tell you for sure , the Aji'i is similar design - cant tell you about the Reos but the new ones definitely have a well so I'd think there's some elevation of the atty ... also look at the Portage the Precious, and I believe all the Percise (SuperT) mods.... I'm pretty sure that they all have juice wells with elevated attys.....
The standard connector only has the 4 small slits which definitely does not allow free flow through the atty - ... I'm going to try and get to a hardware store tomorrow and see if I can find a small brass washer to set inside the atty cup to see if that's what's going on ... if that makes a difference, I'd say its probably your answer...
Let us know how it works out Jimho
I cannot claim to understand, but please do keep brain storming...
Thanks
fono
I still regret asking...
After re-reading your post, I have to say---be careful adding length to the center post, that's exactly what's bad about the bad adapters---be careful... thanks
I cannot claim to understand, but please do keep brain storming...
Thanks
fono
I still regret asking...
After re-reading your post, I have to say---be careful adding length to the center post, that's exactly what's bad about the bad adapters---be careful... thanks
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Doots, I have had my phidias going on 2 weeks and run a gambit of juices thru. Using a straight pg or blended juice which I just recently tried I noticed that with a 510 I experienced no leakage, did however have a few leaks with a 306. dont know why it just seems like the 510 holds more juice. I am used to 100% vg juice and have had no leaks with either attys running ave juice's. there did seem to be a learning curve with when and how long to feed your atty. But after a while it started to click about what Fono kept saying, its not about pressure its about time. when i fed the atty directly from the top i was able to guage the flow and how much juice came out with one 5 second feed. after 5 or so seconds another push would be needed to flood your atty so It's almost impossible to do it with one push.
My sequence is fire till the taste starts to dry out then give one 5 second push and I have had no issues with leaks of any kind.
My sequence is fire till the taste starts to dry out then give one 5 second push and I have had no issues with leaks of any kind.
Are you worried about overtightening the atty and forcing the centerpost up causing a short? (I know about that potential - agree - need to be carefull)
waaaaa waaaaa .. I fried my Phidias today. I decided I should clean my atty, so I was doing a dry burn on it with my Phidias and my killer 18650 battery. The atty cleaned up great, vaped great for 1 minute and then everything came to a screeching halt and stopped working. Thought my battery may be dead, put in another battery .. nada. Put in another battery ... nada. Opened poor Phidias up and there it was, with all the heat my dry burn had created it melted one of the wire conections and there was the loose wire .. disconnected.
Reason #899 to buy your Phidias directly from Fono ... I emailed him, told him I had been a bad girl and asked him to shoot me. He emailed me back and said he misses his old friend and for me to send it back to him so they can visit a while, and he'll send it back to me after it has recuperated and gotten all better (and fixed by Fono of course!).
Moral of the story ... the next time I do a dry burn it will be on a cheapo 510 battery, NOT on my Phidias. Next moral of the story ... only buy directly from Fono because he loves and takes care of his customers (and his Phidias's).
Now I am Phidias-less. My Phi is already in the mail and enroute to have a reunion with his creator. Who's your Daddy?
Reason #899 to buy your Phidias directly from Fono ... I emailed him, told him I had been a bad girl and asked him to shoot me. He emailed me back and said he misses his old friend and for me to send it back to him so they can visit a while, and he'll send it back to me after it has recuperated and gotten all better (and fixed by Fono of course!).
Moral of the story ... the next time I do a dry burn it will be on a cheapo 510 battery, NOT on my Phidias. Next moral of the story ... only buy directly from Fono because he loves and takes care of his customers (and his Phidias's).
Now I am Phidias-less. My Phi is already in the mail and enroute to have a reunion with his creator. Who's your Daddy?
Silly rabbit... no way in H-E double hockey sticks that happened from a dry burn. your atty ain't hot enough to melt solder - the coil would fry before that happened.... Maybe from a shorted atty connector - by coincidence see my post above....
Sorry to hear- Damned right you bought it from the right place. He'll have it back to you in no time... be glad you used a protected battery- that 3000mAh is no joke.
Toss that atty....
Ohhhhhhh???? You mean maybe I didnt fry it with the dry burn? I did the dry burn with my 3000 mah 18650. Gosh I hope you're right because boy did that battery clean my atty up quick.
I had just put in an atty that was brand new, from a different vendor, not the ones I have been using. After I did my dry burn on my old reliable genuine Joye atty that has been vaping like crazy for a very long time, I decided to try this new atty I had bought last week. It was NOT a genuine Joye. After I had cleaned my regular atty I decided to try this new atty, so I set my newly cleaned old reliable atty aside, blew the heck outta this other atty, primed it with a few drops and started vaping. It vaped for about 5 minutes and then that is when everything came to a stop!
So .. it was the atty that did it you think? Have I learned another lesson here and will not use any attys that arent genuine joye attys?
Poor Fono .. he's getting his own personal PV back and I hope he doesnt faint (or puke) when he opens the package and looks at his "old friend", hope I didnt abuse and hurt his (mine) Phidias too much.
I miss it already, it was taken away in the mail truck 1 1/2 hrs ago .. sigh.
I think that's why he's so adamant about being careful with adapters. That same heavy gauge wiring and good switch allows plenty of current through. My guess is that the dry burn pretty much wore out the core enough so that it shorted. The damage you saw was from the short. And a bad adapter will short and cause just as much damage. But I'm sure yours will be repaired and on its way back to you quickly.
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