Philip Morris VS. Freedom2Vape.com

[jazdale]

Hello Mr. Marlboro, my name is jazdale. I'd like to offer you a sample of an e-cig juice good enough to be called Marlboro.

Bah, why should I waste my time with you.

Because sir, as the world slowly turns from cigarettes to e-cigs, you'll lose profit and name brand recognition.
Imagine e-cig users going to their gas station to buy an ml or a carto of Marlboro brand.

So, what do you want.

Oh, 100k upfront and 1% of revenue for the recipe.

 

[jazdale]

Did i say 100k, I meant to say 1 million dollars

/end Dr. Evil finger near mouth gesture.

 

[mwa102464]

Dam, now if this is a case where does this leave Hok the man who invented the ecig and all these vendors selling the ecig itself?

 

[ShannonA]

If you actually read the letter it's pretty reasonable. That's how american copyright law works, and if you dont like it you can get out.


Shouldn't we be complaining about the need for F2V to advertise their products using coprwritten cigarette language?

I did read the letter and no it's not reasonable... if they didn't want them to use Marlboro... yes reasonable... the Marlboro man... still reasonable.... cowboy and anything western themed ? ( I read it days ago that wording may not be dead on) I have never seen the word cowboy on a Marlboro product or ad. Cowboy does not = Marlboro man just because Marlboro man is a cowboy. You can't really claim ownership over an entire culture. That's too vague if freedom2vape had the money to hang in and fight it I don't think Marlboro would win that battle (without pulling some strings) especially since e-liquid is not tobacco.

 

[mwa102464]

Hello Mr. Marlboro, my name is jazdale. I'd like to offer you a sample of an e-cig juice good enough to be called Marlboro.

Bah, why should I waste my time with you.

Because sir, as the world slowly turns from cigarettes to e-cigs, you'll lose profit and name brand recognition.
Imagine e-cig users going to their gas station to buy an ml or a carto of Marlboro brand.

So, what do you want.

Oh, 100k upfront and 1% of revenue for the recipe.

I would have to think that Phillip Morris has a prototype room of there own for ecigs & Eliquid all ready to roll out. I think they are just sitting back to see what the FDA does so they can leap forward, they surely have enough money, brains, and all together power to jump right into this ecig business if they want. There isn't an ecig company on the planet that can hang or dictate anything to these guys, there pockets and political connections ride way up high over everyone !

 

[firefox335]

You cannot copyright the English language. At best they could claim that the word "Cowboy" and the western imagery is a "Service Mark" (SM) which would mean that no other tobacco (or perhaps nicotine delivery business) could use those particular images.

A restaurant could not use the term "Big Mac" to describe a type of food they sell, but an auto body shop could use the term because they are from different industries. At least that's the way it was explained to me in college. But that was a few years ago.

One thing is certain. Phillip Morris is a dying dinosaur.

 

[jazdale]

I think they are just sitting back to see what the FDA does so they can leap forward

C'mon, They own the FDA. Why are analogs still legal?

BTW..you're probably right. Apparently, e-cigs haven't reached critical mass for BT.

 

[Stosh]

BT is between a rock and a hard place, (it's a good thing). If they promote e-cigs.....

"Hi. smoke Yourlboro, it's a 1000 times safer alternative to what we're selling you now"

What keeps regulators from saying, really? Then stop selling your current product now!!

 

[revolver]

One thing is certain. Phillip Morris is a dying dinosaur.

Oh! Yeah, about that... Think twice...
1. The 'marketing and business power' Big Tobacco has is not to be taken for granted... I dont think they will just dissapear... Even though there is a legal impediment for them to brand e-cigs, their lobby could solve this... And, if they dont, they could end up ahead of business all the same:
2. Check this link (it takes 20 secs to show...)
FastCompany.com | Where ideas and people meet.
'The future of Big Tobacco could be manufacturing batts' How ironic is that?

BTW: "Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?" Change your avatar's pic... Im to be the only HAL9,000... Heeee!

 

[revolver]

I would have to think that Phillip Morris has a prototype room of there own for ecigs & Eliquid all ready to roll out. I think they are just sitting back to see what the FDA does so they can leap forward, they surely have enough money, brains, and all together power to jump right into this ecig business if they want. There isn't an ecig company on the planet that can hang or dictate anything to these guys, there pockets and political connections ride way up high over everyone !

Sounds like that...!

 

[revolver]

C'mon, They own the FDA. Why are analogs still legal?

BTW..you're probably right. Apparently, e-cigs haven't reached critical mass for BT.

They own the FDA? Mmmm... I think its more of a 'friendship' type of thing...
Remember that taxes from tobacco translate into a 'mutual benefit' which maybe ends up being more of a benefit for the governments internationally, and if Big Tobacco could break free, then this could, maybe, even pay off for them...

 

[ShannonA]

Oh! Yeah, about that... Think twice...
1. The 'marketing and business power' Big Tobacco has is not to be taken for granted... I dont think they will just dissapear... Even though there is a legal impediment for them to brand e-cigs, their lobby could solve this... And, if they dont, they could end up ahead of business all the same:
2. Check this link (it takes 20 secs to show...)
FastCompany.com | Where ideas and people meet.
QUOTE]

Phillip Morris has other holdings besides their tobacco cos anyway. Marlboro and co going under might pinch, might even pinch alot but it won't take them out.

Also I think it's a little early to predict the demise of tobacco cigs.

 

[JudgeVape]

Smoking rates, after declining steadily for decades, have leveled off in the past 5 years and have even crept back up again. Slightly more than 1 in 5 Americans still smokes. So the industry still sells products regularly to 20% of Americans. A lot of industries would kill to have that kind of market penetration.

 

[ShannonA]

Smoking rates, after declining steadily for decades, have leveled off in the past 5 years and have even crept back up again. Slightly more than 1 in 5 Americans still smokes. So the industry still sells products regularly to 20% of Americans. A lot of industries would kill to have that kind of market penetration.

There's just a little irony there.

 

[ElectroDude]

This is the most ......ed thing I have ever heard. It seems that the land of freedom is controlled by some powerful people and companies.

 

[WomanOfHeart]

It's incredibly unreasonable for PM to think that they have the copyright on the word "cowboy" (especially since they didn't invent the word) or every picture of a cowboy hat. I don't think they can claim the rights to all things western anymore than Zuckerberg can claim rights to the word "Face."

 

[FlyingV]

Wait a minute. I have a close relative who is an actual cowboy (they do still exist). What about pictures of him? Does his image infringe on the copyright? I can't see how they can claim rights to cowboy type images.

 

[daisyd]

So if they lose the right to use cowboys on juice...what about cowgirls?

 

[jtpjc]

Just call the ejuice MWAH (Man With A Horse). Who could possibly object to that? Problem solved.

http://www.internetslang.com/MWAH.asp

 

[Katatonik]

It's not that the "cowboy" is copy righted. It's that the use of the cowboy and "western" themes a direct reference to the PM brands and the e-juice companies intend to capitalize on the PM icons. If a generic brand of coca cola used red and swirly letters and changed coca-cola to cola-coka, Coca-cola would have legitimate right to sue for TM infringement. If a boot company made a Harvey Davison logo for their boots, Harley Davidson could sue.

The deciding factor is if Freedom2vape can prove that their labeling does not take a direct reference to PM products in their sale of liquid with intent of manufacturing a replacement of that brand for profit. I think it's pretty obvious that they do make direct reference in order to capitalize on their branding.

It sounds dumb, but unfortunately it does make sense.