Please encourage the use of child safety bottles only

[Kent C]

All for the option thing, I just want to make sure that I can opt out of it

But this is how these types include everyone. They'll say "Oh no, we Want you to have the choice, we just want the vendors to be 'responsible' - [their underlying assumption is that businessmen are the scum of the earth and they'd rip you off at any chance they got so they are going to force the dirty, polluting, scam artist who doesn't care about children or anyone but only for themselves - you see, they need _YOUR_ support in order to do this, so they'll say you don't need to do anything, let us handle it and you'll have the option to do what you want and then you end up paying double for everything because they force businesses to 'be responsible' for every one of their 'whims' on what _could_ be the least bit dangerous and you end up paying for their ideas.

They know that people who just want to be left alone won't take the time or effort to stop them when they go after someone else. In fact, they rely on it. And when you say anything contrary to "what they know is best", then you're one of those dirty, polluting, baby killing scum of the earth types. Don't fall for it.

 

[martha1014]

I think you comments were rude and unnecesary. The FDA regulations on safety was put into place for a very good reason. To protect people.

Regardless of what you think for suppliers to continue to sell eliquid they will have to follow these regulations.

I know people think the FDA is all bad because they are fighting electronic cigarettes for whatever reason but some regulations are passed for good reasons. Look at the tylenol scare. All over the counter medications require safety caps and are sealed. Why do you think they passed these regulations.

I for one would like my eliquid sealed with a safety cap on it for my safety and well as others.

My grandchildren come to vist me and I have to place all my eliquid in a safe place so I am assured they won't get into it. If you children are grown then most people have grandchildren to think about.

Don't you care enough to even consider this. We all need to have an open mind and at least be realistic.

 

[Kent C]

I think you comments were rude and unnecesary. .

I think yours are. And the insults started with how 'someone unnamed' "doesn't care about others" or the "community". Read some of other posts and see what you think. Ask me for help on a legitimate question about your ecig or where you can get the best deal or what are the best accessories to get. Then say how rude I am and how I don't care. I don't care for YOU or people like you. If that's what you mean then you're absolutely right.

You're just another 'collaborator' 'Loyalist' - you'd have been tarred and feathered at our Revolution because people back then knew exactly what a danger you were to the 'community' - they just left a place that was full of people like you. And that was obvious from your first post. Sorry I didn't give you the attention you deserve. And you deserve a Lot of attention. People should know exactly who and what you are.

 

[aa6660]

I just ordered a bottle from cignot, and guess what, it was in a child proof bottle! I think this is a good idea, if not for only perceptions. And guess what else, it wasn't even that hard to open!

With that being said, I do have a kid, and this is only a plus for me.

Love that company, but I will warn that both bottle caps that broke were our ones from cignot. Still in search of the best container and method to get the remaining juice out of those bottles.

 

[AngusATAT]

It's for the greater good!

Give an option, that would be fine. Don't make it mandatory. It's not mandatory for the patch, gum, or even Chantix (you can get it without the childproof containers). Why should nicotine juice be any different?

 

[kristin]

Look at all the posted comments on articles ....
[blah blah blah.... danger... blah, blah, blah.... children... blah, blah, blah... for the good of community.... blah, blah, blah.... I'm morally superior to you.....blah, blah, blah..... if we don't appease them.... blah, blah, blah..... I'm for freedom too, BUT.... blah, blah, blah, blah Blah!]

How convenient for you to ignore the rest of my post as it suits you. Typical hypocrite.

Is there nothing in this world you think should be regulated? All rules, laws and standards should just be thrown out the window? Everyone should fend for themselves? We should just get rid of the government & police while we're at it? How far do you wish to take this fantasy of your's?

Based on some of your comments, this is more than the topic at hand. You seem to have made it something personal. Now I'm a troll?

I think most people will see through your manipulations of my comments. Trying to make it seem like I'm trying to take away all of their freedoms and I'm somehow a wolf in sheeps clothing, weaseling my way into CASAA. On the contrary, all of my work thus far has been to assure that everyone on this forum and in the vaping community have the freedom to have access to effective, affordable and safer alternatives to smoking. If that means I have to be like a politician sometimes and put a spin on things to keep the non-vaping community from banning PVs, then so be it. I'll take the heat.

Insisting that because I feel minimal safety measures and/or restrictions are acceptable for one thing, means that I have some alterior motive or goal to try to erode all other the freedoms, is completely over dramatic. People who have seen me post here and help people and read my articles know that isn't me.

 

[Kent C]

GoG8trz:
I just ordered a bottle from cignot, and guess what, it was in a child proof bottle! I think this is a good idea, if not for only perceptions. And guess what else, it wasn't even that hard to open!

With that being said, I do have a kid, and this is only a plus for me.

Love that company, but I will warn that both bottle caps that broke were our ones from cignot. .

Does anyone else see the problem with the top quote??? like this part:

"it was in a child proof bottle!" followed by "it wasn't even that hard to open!"

Wait for it.....

IOW, they don't work, but as long as everyone 'feels good about it' and they had "good intentions" when they impose restrictions on vendors that makes the price rise for everyone, then all is well. Lol. Only look at how much they care for the community, not the damage done to it.

 

[AngusATAT]

I think it's natural that most folks will resist this.

Think about it, most of us are old smokers who've been pushed around for decades by others "for our own good". We finally break free, and then.... it's back!

Like I said... make it an option. If childproof bottles are more expensive to suppliers, then they should charge more for them to cover the cost... to the folks who actually order their juice with those bottles.

 

[Kent C]

Me:
[blah blah blah.... danger... blah, blah, blah.... children... blah, blah, blah... for the good of community.... blah, blah, blah.... I'm morally superior to you.....blah, blah, blah..... if we don't appease them.... blah, blah, blah..... I'm for freedom too, BUT.... blah, blah, blah, blah Blah!]

How convenient for you to ignore the rest of my post as it suits you. Typical hypocrite.

I didn't ignore it, I just interpretted it. Another personal insult, but don't bother between saying what a person does and what they are - you'd get really confused and there's latin involved.

Is there nothing in this world you think should be regulated? All rules, laws and standards should just be thrown out the window? Everyone should fend for themselves? We should just get rid of the government & police while we're at it? How far do you wish to take this fantasy of your's?

Protect and preserve individual rights to life liberty and property by violations foreign and domestic - sound familiar? Prosecute violations to the fullest extent of the law - even treasonous do gooders if they violate property rights.

And I'd take this fanatsy just as far as the founders intended. No further.

Based on some of your comments, this is more than the topic at hand. You seem to have made it something personal. Now I'm a troll?

Yep and now a psychiatrist as well. You talk about 'typical' - now comes psycholigizing. "It can't be that I'm wrong - he's a hater or crazy."

I think most people will see through your manipulations of my comments.

Projecting much. And you'd like to believe that but the fact of the matter is the most that have posted have been the 'hands off' type comments.

Trying to make it seem like I'm trying to take away all of their freedoms and I'm somehow a wolf in sheeps clothing, weaseling my way into CASAA. On the contrary, all of my work thus far has been to assure that everyone on this forum and in the vaping community have the freedom to have access to effective, affordable and safer alternatives to smoking. If that means I have to be like a politician sometimes and put a spin on things to keep the non-vaping community from banning PVs, then so be it. I'll take the heat.

Your not that good at taking the heat actually. In your first draft of the "article" you argued with everyone that pointed out all the misinformation and outright fabrications not to mention the spelling and grammar. Your responses were a lot like what we're seeing now - Personal attack and not taking responsibility for it, yet the 'final draft' incorporated all the help you got with little credit I might add. You really don't take the heat well at all. You can keep posting your excuses for meddling. But not much has changed other than attacking people who disagree with you along the way. Typical politician.

Insisting that because I feel minimal safety measures and/or restrictions are acceptable for one thing, means that I have some alterior motive or goal to try to erode all other the freedoms, is completely over dramatic.

Ever hear of a slippery slope? The point is - you use the same arguments on small things that they use on bigger things. Once you buy the premise they have you. You may as well just apply for a job at the FDA, so we can have someone who is actually an advocate not someone who thinks like the people that are trying to shut down the industry.

People who have seen me post here and help people and read my articles know that isn't me.

I've seen you post, I've seen you collect other people's ideas and put it into a faq, write and article that made no sense when you first wrote it and I've also seen you help people as well - and if anyone has been following I have gave you credit where it was due in those cases. If you want a link on those time I can provide them. But there are also people that have read you and know that this is you - you've been in appeasement mode since shortly after your original article. And frankly, I can only seeing it get worse as it becomes more apparent that you want sanctions from vendors rather than have individuals take personal responsibility for their own children and selves. That, btw, promotes irresponsibility because it gives people a false sense of security that everything is safe because the gov't says it is.

How do you think the anti-smoking thing got started? You tell school children to tell their moms, dads and grandparents that they love them and don't want to see them die. Then you use junk science to prove the second hand smoke not just smells bad but kills people.

Then they do what you're doing to me and others now - make anyone who disagrees with you or that continues to smoke look like some criminal who doesn't care about the community and every smoker that is reading this knows this is exactly how those 'small innocent steps' becomes an imposition into your liberty and your life.

 

[Kent C]

I think it's natural that most folks will resist this.

Think about it, most of us are old smokers who've been pushed around for decades by others "for our own good". We finally break free, and then.... it's back!

You nailed it right there. Don't they know we're sharper than that, in part because of the nicotine. lol. Or that we'd forget what we went through just a few short months ago?

Since she's psychologizing - let me take a stab at it. Doesn't it seem odd, like I mentioned in another thread, that on post 1 it's 'what ecig should I buy' and on post 9 it's 'We must do something about the f....ing FDA and big tobacco!!! Then on post 15 it's what we have to do to appease the 'powers that be'.

These people _need_ a cause in much the way a celebrity 'needs a cause' to detract attention for how much they're making doing stupid movies. (Or in this case how frickin' naive (I'm being nice here) they are.)

So a Tom Cruise takes up "environmentalism" while he's making a movie on gas gussling NASCAR cars! They are really hilarious if you don't get taken into their "dedication to the community" bit. It's as if their mother's weren't looking at them when they did a cannonball off the high board. God save us from these people. They make life miserable and if you are just having a good time vaping and helping people with actual vaping stuff they hop on you like your some kind of leper because you don't happen to agree with their appeasing your enemy! There should be an SNL skit on something like this. It really is hilarious if you don't have to prove to others how much you seriously care. sigh.... lol

 

[kristin]

Me:
[blah blah blah.... danger... blah, blah, blah.... children... blah, blah, blah... for the good of community.... blah, blah, blah.... I'm morally superior to you.....blah, blah, blah..... if we don't appease them.... blah, blah, blah..... I'm for freedom too, BUT.... blah, blah, blah, blah Blah!]

How convenient for you to ignore the rest of my post as it suits you. Typical hypocrite.

I didn't ignore it, I just interpretted it. Another personal insult, but don't bother between saying what a person does and what they are - you'd get really confused and there's latin involved.

Is there nothing in this world you think should be regulated? All rules, laws and standards should just be thrown out the window? Everyone should fend for themselves? We should just get rid of the government & police while we're at it? How far do you wish to take this fantasy of your's?

Protect and preserve individual rights to life liberty and property by violations foreign and domestic - sound familiar? Prosecute violations to the fullest extent of the law - even treasonous do gooders if they violate property rights.

And I'd take this fanatsy just as far as the founders intended. No further.

Based on some of your comments, this is more than the topic at hand. You seem to have made it something personal. Now I'm a troll?

Yep and now a psychiatrist as well. You talk about 'typical' - now comes psycholigizing. "It can't be that I'm wrong - he's a hater or crazy."

I think most people will see through your manipulations of my comments.

Projecting much. And you'd like to believe that but the fact of the matter is the most that have posted have been the 'hands off' type comments.

Trying to make it seem like I'm trying to take away all of their freedoms and I'm somehow a wolf in sheeps clothing, weaseling my way into CASAA. On the contrary, all of my work thus far has been to assure that everyone on this forum and in the vaping community have the freedom to have access to effective, affordable and safer alternatives to smoking. If that means I have to be like a politician sometimes and put a spin on things to keep the non-vaping community from banning PVs, then so be it. I'll take the heat.

Your not that good at taking the heat actually. In your first draft of the "article" you argued with everyone that pointed out all the misinformation and outright fabrications not to mention the spelling and grammar. Your responses were a lot like what we're seeing now - Personal attack and not taking responsibility for it, yet the 'final draft' incorporated all the help you got with little credit I might add. You really don't take the heat well at all. You can keep posting your excuses for meddling. But not much has changed other than attacking people who disagree with you along the way. Typical politician.

Insisting that because I feel minimal safety measures and/or restrictions are acceptable for one thing, means that I have some alterior motive or goal to try to erode all other the freedoms, is completely over dramatic.

Ever hear of a slippery slope? The point is - you use the same arguments on small things that they use on bigger things. Once you buy the premise they have you. You may as well just apply for a job at the FDA, so we can have someone who is actually an advocate not someone who thinks like the people that are trying to shut down the industry.

People who have seen me post here and help people and read my articles know that isn't me.

I've seen you post, I've seen you collect other people's ideas and put it into a faq, write and article that made no sense when you first wrote it and I've also seen you help people as well - and if anyone has been following I have gave you credit where it was due in those cases. If you want a link on those time I can provide them. But there are also people that have read you and know that this is you - you've been in appeasement mode since shortly after your original article. And frankly, I can only seeing it get worse as it becomes more apparent that you want sanctions from vendors rather than have individuals take personal responsibility for their own children and selves. That, btw, promotes irresponsibility because it gives people a false sense of security that everything is safe because the gov't says it is.

How do you think the anti-smoking thing got started? You tell school children to tell their moms, dads and grandparents that they love them and don't want to see them die. Then you use junk science to prove the second hand smoke not just smells bad but kills people.

Then they do what you're doing to me and others now - make anyone who disagrees with you or that continues to smoke look like some criminal who doesn't care about the community and every smoker that is reading this knows this is exactly how those 'small innocent steps' becomes an imposition into your liberty and your life.

I argued with people about the article? (I'm guessing you mean the first one.) I asked for feedback, discussed and debated and ultimately took a lot of the advice, but 99% of the article was my own. Just because I had some of my own opinions and convictions, that is a bad thing? And I'm not sure what you mean that it "made no sense" or that it was filled with misinformation and fabrications? I could have just published the article without any feedback or input from the vaping community, but I wanted to make sure people had input first. Anything that was pointed out that I had wrong, I changed. And I acknowledged many times thanks for all of the help I got - but I think people knew I was doing FOR them, as well.

I collected the FAQs because people were complaining that new members had no way to get them and kept asking the same questions over and over. You make it sound like I was trying to to take credit for other people's ideas and I don't think most people took it that way. It's not like I copied and pasted everything as my own ideas - I linked to the original posts.

Hypocrite:
1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

It is not an insult, it's what I believe you are being in this instance. My own opinion and it doesn't really affect you anyhow. I don't believe you would stand by your statements if you were on the other end of things. You don't care what iIbelieve, so what does it matter.

The irony of all of this, is that I agree with you to a certain extent. I don;t assume I'm right, but I have the right to argue my point until I feel I'm proven wrong. If I am, I will admit it. I just don't believe I am in this case.

You're right, it absolutely is a slippery slope. I just don't believe it's as slippery as you are making it out. or it is at least more controllable. I don't believe the founding fathers never meant that everyone should do as they wish. And they weren't exactly perfect in their creation - they forgot to include a large segment of the population in those "freedoms" they wrote about.

All I've ever done here is try to help. If I was misguided or wrong in some of those attempts, I apologize to everyone who feels that way. I have no alterior motives. I guess I'm wrong to want to try to protect people from others who wish them harm. You're right - it's not my job. But I can;t help but believe that the world would be much worse off if everyone took that attitude.

My only goal is what I stated earlier, to make sure PVs continue to be available. I didn't ask to serve on the CASAA board. As a matter of fact, I was hoping I didn't get voted in. There are a lot more qualified people than I to be there. If people think I should step down, I'll be happy to do so. And I'm not being dramatic or manipulative - I mean it.

 

[kristin]

Since she's psychologizing - let me take a stab at it. Doesn't it seem odd, like I mentioned in another thread, that on post 1 it's 'what ecig should I buy' and on post 9 it's 'We must do something about the f....ing FDA and big tobacco!!! Then on post 15 it's what we have to do to appease the 'powers that be'.

These people _need_ a cause in much the way a celebrity 'needs a cause' to detract attention for how much they're making doing stupid movies. (Or in this case how frickin' naive (I'm being nice here) they are.)

So a Tom Cruise takes up "environmentalism" while he's making a movie on gas gussling NASCAR cars! They are really hilarious if you don't get taken into their "dedication to the community" bit. It's as if their mother's weren't looking at them when they did a cannonball off the high board. God save us from these people. They make life miserable and if you are just having a good time vaping and helping people with actual vaping stuff they hop on you like your some kind of leper because you don't happen to agree with their appeasing your enemy! There should be an SNL skit on something like this. It really is hilarious if you don't have to prove to others how much you seriously care. sigh.... lol

Are you serious? I, like many, many members here, discovered e-cigs and then found out the FDA was about to ban them. That made me want to do something. I did a lot of reading before I started posting. It may appear "odd" if you're weren't privy to that, but I'm not the only one to join here and immediately start advocating, once I found out what was happening. Most people were just sitting on their hands, talking about mods and fillers and complaining that it was all about to go away. Forgive me because I wanted to DO something.

Appeasement? Sometimes you have to learn to play by the other side's rules in order to ultimately get what you want.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Are you serious? I, like many, many members here, discovered e-cigs and then found out the FDA was about to ban them. That made me want to do something. I did a lot of reading before I started posting. It may appear "odd" if you're weren't privy to that, but I'm not the only one to join here and immediately start advocating, once I found out what was happening. Most people were just sitting on their hands, talking about mods and fillers and complaining that it was all about to go away. Forgive me because I wanted to DO something.

Appeasement? Sometimes you have to learn to play by the other side's rules in order to ultimately get what you want.

Kristin----you need not have to justify your actions to anyone--they speak volumes on their own to your commitment to this "war" we are fighting. You have done so much for the Community and our members in such a short time that you need not bother with this nonsense.

Thanks for your continued efforts. Talk is cheap, acition is commitment.

Sun

 

[Heed]

Aaargh! I can't stands it no more!

Please stop with the misuse of "slippery slope". Slippery slopes are inherently weak argument forms. So, when you say something like "we are in danger of a slippery slope" you are in essence saying "we are in danger of being presented with an argument that holds no weight." Or, "we are in danger of this thing we fear happening not actually happening."

Slippery slope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Logicians all over will thank you. And I shall thank you.

I now return you to the weirdness that has become this thread.

 

[kristin]

I admit Kent is right on at least one point. I guess I can't take the heat.

I apologize if anyone felt I was plagerizing them, taking advantage, lying or misrepresenting them, being an attention wh*re or anything else. That was never my intention.

All I wanted was for my husband and I to quit smoking. I discovered vaping and fell in love. I just wanted to contribute and help in any way I could. Obviously, I was completely misguided, if this is what people actually think of me.

 

[AngusATAT]

I admit Kent is right on at least one point. I guess I can't take the heat.

I apologize if anyone felt I was plagerizing them, taking advantage, lying or misrepresenting them, being an attention wh*re or anything else. That was never my intention.

All I wanted was for my husband and I to quit smoking. I discovered vaping and fell in love. I just wanted to contribute and help in any way I could. Obviously, I was completely misguided, if this is what people actually think of me.

No, I don't think this is what people think of you at all. It seems to me that it's just one person. I sure don't think that way.

I may disagree with someone, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their views. Don't let one anonymous guy on the internet get you down. You know what they say about opinions.

 

[halfevildruid]

Let me first say I have only skimmed lightly through this thread after gettin in from doing some work. I am not going to get into a debate. After vaping for 6 months with 3 kids 2,6 and 8 I always use child-proof caps. If I order some and it does not have one I transfer it to a CPC container. It won't keep them out but my 2 older boys know to stay away, and my younger one is strangely attracted to them. I have a slight comfort in that if he gets one before I see him, it will at least take extra effort to try to get it open, allowing me more time to get there and take it away. My opinion is ALL nic juice should be childproofed, and if you don't want it that way, you can easily transfer it to non-CPC containers if needed!

 

[AngusATAT]

My opinion is ALL nic juice should be childproofed, and if you don't want it that way, you can easily transfer it to non-CPC containers if needed!

My opinion is ALL nic juice should be childproofed or not, and if you don't want it one way, you can easily order a different container if needed!

 

[halfevildruid]

My opinion is ALL nic juice should be non-childproofed, and if you don't want it that way, you can easily transfer it to CPC containers if needed!

(It was just easier to copy and tweak to suit my needs.)

LOL Great point! I guess it could come down to responsible adults doing what they need to according to their specific situation!

 

[Webby]

I just stumbled on this thread and I honestly don't see what all the heated debate is about. Whether or not childproof caps deter accidental overdoses, they (or the lack of them) is just another bullet in the arsenal of those who say we are an irresponsible lot.

If you are arthritic or elderly or have no young kids in your house, the option should be yours. But I don't see it as such a big deal to make it an industry standard to offer child proof caps AND regular ones - if ONLY to show the world that we aren't so asinine and elitist as to think the rest of the chemical and medical industry is wrong by making them SOP.

I buy pretty much any potentially toxic chemical cleaner or medicine and it comes with a child proof cap. If I want to transfer it to a another container, fine. But it shows the entire world recognizes that EVERY OTHER chemical is packaged that way - why should we be different?

"It's my right to buy products without safety caps" is a silly argument IMHO. The first time a kid gets ahold of gramma's e-liquid and overdoses we're screwed with bad press. It might never happen, but why take a chance? We have everything to lose and so little to gain here.