PLEASE stop recommending RBAs and RDAs to beginners in the Newbie Forum

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SkoOtz.DC

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It is good to spell out acronyms sometimes, but it's easy to forget that people don't always know them. It's also very easy to Google them.

And there is a very handy link in the New Members Info section. I had that open on one monitor for constant reference the first couple days. But yeah, typing out acronyms in the NMF may be a good idea, even if talking to an experienced vaper, us newbies will surely read it and be grateful.
 
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Bosco

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I'm not sure about suggesting RBA's to newbies or not but people have GOT to stop saying "you'll blow yourself up" because it's really misleading. Firstly, batteries don't "blow up". There are some videos on Youtube that show intentional venting of IMR batteries. Every vaper should watch them. First off . .it takes a *long* time for the shorted battery to vent. Before it does it gets HOT and even swells up to twice it's normal size. It's not like you're going to build a coil with a short, press the button and then BAM . fade to black . . .

People always seem to refer to "that guy that blew his teeth out" . .well, that guy probably didn't have a short - or an RBA. The details are frustratingly scare but it pretty clear he was stacking batteries . .possibly CR123's . .and stacked CR123's are dangerous. If you want to tell new vapors to stay the hell away from stacked CR123's you will get no argument from me.

Many more issues seem to come from people's ego (or knock-off) batteries venting on the charger . .flying around the room and scorching the walls, etc. If you want to tell newbies to be real carefull about charging *any* battery and maybe to charge it in a fire-proof space . .you'll get no argument from me there, either.

The majority of other issues I have read about stem from a mech mod firing unbeknownst to it's owner .. ie . .fire button stuck down in pocket or mod fails causing it to fire constantly. If you want to tell newbies to make sure thier mech mods have lock-out rings and to always use them . .you'll get no argument from me.

And then there is the ever-popular "I put a bunch of Li-Ion batteries loose in my pocket with some change and they got really hot"! That, of course, is not an issue limited to RBA's but hey - I say we make sure and tell newbies not to be careless with loose batteries.

I read a lot . .as much as I can .. and while it's certainly not scientific I have never read a single report of a shorted coil causing a battery to fail during a vape and injuring somebody.

If *anybody* can provide a link to a news article or some sort of credible account of this happening I will be happy to re-assess.
 
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SkoOtz.DC

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Yep. That's the one I saw. I don't get what the point is. Does he want to vape, or does he want to smoke burned polyfill? And that's the BEST case scenario of what can happen.

He even says that it doesnt taste good and that it tastes burnt. I dont understand him at all, wackjob IMHO. But still, was a good chuckle, esp when he talked about scraping the plastic off the battery and the need for his "safety switch" :) facepalm
 

Tinkiegrrl

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I think he want to win a Darwin award but doesn't know it
yes.gif

It's be nice to keep that out of the gene pool....
 

SkoOtz.DC

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There are some videos on Youtube that show intentional venting of IMR batteries. Every vaper should watch them.

I looked, "IMR battery venting", "Intentional IMR Battery Venting Vent". Didnt find it, link please?

Please sir, I would like some more :)

And thank you for the informative post. While I keep reading everything I can find about battery safety in relation to PV's the perpetually paranoid part of me still feels there are gaps. I know I am safe in my operating ranges, but I yearn to know more.
 
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generic mutant

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I'm not sure about suggesting RBA's to newbies or not but people have GOT to stop saying "you'll blow yourself up" because it's really misleading. Firstly, batteries don't "blow up". There are some videos on Youtube that show intentional venting of IMR batteries. Every vaper should watch them. First off . .it takes a *long* time for the shorted battery to vent. Before it does it gets HOT and even swells up to twice it's normal size. It's not like you're going to build a coil with a short, press the button and then BAM . fade to black . . .
...

A lot of what you say is true, although I think it's also fair to say that when people say "blow themselves up" nobody is actually imagining a mushroom cloud.

What we'll get is somebody using a 0.5 amp battery they've fished out of their broken laptop (or a couple, stacked, if we're lucky), bonus points if the mod isn't properly vented, wrapping a phat quad coil for the clouds, and burning themselves severely or knocking their teeth out.

Law of averages, combined with law of depths of human stupidity.

No escaping it.
 

SkoOtz.DC

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What we'll get is somebody using a 0.5 amp battery they've fished out of their broken laptop (or a couple, stacked, if we're lucky), bonus points if the mod isn't properly vented, wrapping a phat quad coil for the clouds, and burning themselves severely or knocking their teeth out.

Law of averages, combined with law of depths of human stupidity. No escaping it.

Well, you sir are clearly glass half empty. haha :)

and you get bonus points for using phat in a sentence. Now where'd i leave my hammer pants?
 

RobinBanks

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Danger aside, I'm a fairly smart person and at first I was completely and utterly overwhelmed but the vast amount of information and options. Thank god my friend that introduced me to vaping sent me links to an evod/VV setup. I think if someone hadn't told me "just start here" I would still be trying to decide what to buy 5 months later.
 

Myrany

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I'm not sure about suggesting RBA's to newbies or not but people have GOT to stop saying "you'll blow yourself up" because it's really misleading. Firstly, batteries don't "blow up". There are some videos on Youtube that show intentional venting of IMR batteries. Every vaper should watch them. First off . .it takes a *long* time for the shorted battery to vent. Before it does it gets HOT and even swells up to twice it's normal size. It's not like you're going to build a coil with a short, press the button and then BAM . fade to black . . .

People always seem to refer to "that guy that blew his teeth out" . .well, that guy probably didn't have a short - or an RBA. The details are frustratingly scare but it pretty clear he was stacking batteries . .possibly CR123's . .and stacked CR123's are dangerous. If you want to tell new vapors to stay the hell away from stacked CR123's you will get no argument from me.

Many more issues seem to come from people's ego (or knock-off) batteries venting on the charger . .flying around the room and scorching the walls, etc. If you want to tell newbies to be real carefull about charging *any* battery and maybe to charge it in a fire-proof space . .you'll get no argument from me there, either.

The majority of other issues I have read about stem from a mech mod firing unbeknownst to it's owner .. ie . .fire button stuck down in pocket or mod fails causing it to fire constantly. If you want to tell newbies to make sure thier mech mods have lock-out rings and to always use them . .you'll get no argument from me.

And then there is the ever-popular "I put a bunch of Li-Ion batteries loose in my pocket with some change and they got really hot"! That, of course, is not an issue limited to RBA's but hey - I say we make sure and tell newbies not to be careless with loose batteries.

I read a lot . .as much as I can .. and while it's certainly not scientific I have never read a single report of a shorted coil causing a battery to fail during a vape and injuring somebody.

If *anybody* can provide a link to a news article or some sort of credible account of this happening I will be happy to re-assess.

I was not injured but that was more because I was paying attention and knew what to look for. I had an A7 RDA short itself (they are known for positive post shorts) and go from 1.7 ohms to .5 ohms. The only thing that saved my but was the heat spring collapsing in my REO. AND I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING.

So yeah it can happen.
 

generic mutant

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Danger aside, I'm a fairly smart person and at first I was completely and utterly overwhelmed but the vast amount of information and options. Thank god my friend that introduced me to vaping sent me links to an evod/VV setup. I think if someone hadn't told me "just start here" I would still be trying to decide what to buy 5 months later.

There's quite a good post on that 'analysis paralysis' here, also relevant to the whole thread in a way:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...advice-what-buy-newcomers-12.html#post2585264
 

Talyon

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Sorry, I was barely 2 weeks into my first mechanical mod when a supposively safe "protected" battery "blew up in flames".

View attachment 294896

Above is that battery. It vented rather violently in a pants pocket and ruined the pants, and would have started a fire in the building if I had not found it when I did. I was lucky that I wasn't wearing the pants when this occured. Lithium ion ICR batteries are a voltatile (as in FLAMABLE) chemistry. They vent flames and gas when they go into thermal runaway. If a mod doesn't have ventilation holes to release the gas buildup, the mod literally becomes a pipe bomb.

Although admittedly rare (thank goodness for that), the batteries that we use in our mods can burst into flames or explode. It won't seem so rare should it happen to you.

View attachment 294907 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/472990-hi-all-shaken-up-provari-aw-18490-battery-owner.html

View attachment 294912 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/427656-please-read.html

View attachment 294908 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/478891-warning-do-not-use-charger-batteries-come-vamo-18350-kit-pics.html

View attachment 294909 http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html

So u Normally Don't wear pants? WHew good thing.

Sorry it was there.

Was hoping u would pop in with those pics.
 

Baditude

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So u Normally Don't wear pants? WHew good thing.

Sorry it was there.

Was hoping u would pop in with those pics.
I used to change into scrubs when I worked at a hospital. The pants were in my locker.

The point of my posting those pics is to show that the batteries that we use daily can be dangerous if the proper precautions are not practiced. The point of this thread is that most New Members have no idea that batteries can be dangerous. Rebuildables can push batteries near or past their limits. Knowledge is key, and many members don't have the knowledge yet. Never assume a new member has the knowledge of safe battery practices.

We all use batteries in cell phones, laptops, boom boxes, etc and don't think about them pushing a battery (because they don't). Rebuildables on mechanical mods are an entirely different story. Education is the key. Unfortunately, not every new vaper takes the time to learn about battery safety or knows where to find the resources. As a community, we need to stress about battery safety and educate them to do their homework before attempting a rebuildable or using a mechanical mod. This is the reason that I wrote my blogs on battery safety and an information resource for rebuildable atomizers. Please feel free to link these blogs.

As it has been shown by multiple accounts in this thread, we can't depend upon the vape shops in providing this education.
 
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The thing is, for for people who are new to vaping and they dont have the patience to do the research, why would they have the patience to go into rba/rda's which require more "work" than the "screw on your protank and your good to vape"? it kind of comes with the territory. Most people willing to pick up the extra "inconvenience" of building their own coils, would be willing to do the necessary research.


*edit* actually I just realized the day and age in which we live in... where ...... who desire instant gratification and have ridiculously short attention spans are the majority.... I completely take back my previous statement...
 
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therussellv

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Thought I would weigh in with a comment from the grey hair crowd.
I did lurk a bit on this forum before I took the plunge, and while this is not rocket science, I happen to be an Einstein (former science teacher), and due to all of the jargon, acronyms, and advance info, I got nowhere. I did formulate a list of questions for my local b&m folks, and with a few things cleared up, came back here and dove in with both feet and now live on this forum.

That having been said, I do agree with the op that some common sense should be exercised, but more in the way of explaining yourselves in more plain and non technical language, so that neophytes can sift through the info and make up their mind on these things without the jargon blowing their heads off like a poorly vented mod.
;-)

Last stinkie Oct. 15, 2013
 

Dandreid

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Well, I want to say thank you for this thread and discussion. There is certainly a lot to think about. Obviously, someone who doesn't have the equipment and knowledge should not be building. I do think we all start at a certain level and there is most definitely a lot to learn. I have caught myself several times getting ready to say something that I realize I shouldn't say based on the original post. It's hard for me sometimes because I am very comfortable with electricity and batteries and the "tools of the trade". I'm very glad I read through this thread because not everyone has been building computers since the 80's and not everyone built a heathkit oscilloscope for home use back in middle school.

I think ultimately, we as a community need to hold ourselves to a level of responsibility in what we suggest to others. If someone shows that they have the knowledge and common sense to handle rebuilding, then I think it is fine to help them, but I also think that progression in vapor production and taste is important. If someone starts with a setup that is more than they can handle in either invested time, money, or vapor, it will turn them off or worse, get them hurt. If someone starts out and ends up smoking a few cigarettes, it isn't the end of the world. If they need to move on to something that produces more vapor/throat hit/taste, that is the natural progression of their vaping experience. I think more than anything, we need to as a community show support and help people work through the issues that they have. For the most part, I think ECF members do an absolutely wonderful job of supporting others.

Vaping is becoming much bigger and there are many more converting every day. Please don't forget that we all have to start somewhere, and that place is different for every person. I truly think that it is just prudent to find out where someone is at with their knowledge level and start there. It simply doesn't make sense to say this is where they will end up, so start there. Every piece of equipment I have has taught me something, from a cig-a-like to a protank to a vamo to an rsst and on and on.

I think we can all agree that if someone is ready to quit smoking, along with the tools comes support. Everyone needs to figure out where they want to be and what they need to not smoke. It that is an ego or a mech, they need to figure that out for themselves in a logical progression that keeps them safe and keeps them off the smokes. I've seen several posts where people have made a coil and posted a picture asking how many ohms it is. This is isn't safe and if we keep recommending advanced equipment to BEGINNERS, someone will eventually hurt themselves or others.

On a lighter note, to the person who said we should ask what happens when you piss on a live electric fence -- well, here is the story. When I was 5 or 6, I didn't notice a live wire running along the border of a neighbors property. This was in the woods and I really had to go. Well, with very unlucky aim, I found out that not only is it excruciatingly painful, you can't move and there is no way to stop until your bladder is 100% completely empty. The sound that comes out of your mouth after you are finished is just a pure exhale and nothing else. It truly does make you more observant of your surroundings.

Just my 2 cents
 

SkoOtz.DC

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*edit* actually I just realized the day and age in which we live in... where ...... who desire instant gratification and have ridiculously short attention spans are the majority.... I completely take back my previous statement...

You just described me to a tee and i can still build a coil without getting distracted by something shiny.
 

SkoOtz.DC

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I did formulate a list of questions for my local b&m folks,

The one thing I have learned, ECM is happy to answer any properly formulated question. Every question I have asked I'm sure has been asked and answered in one manner or another a hundred times or more somewhere here(probably more). But every time i asked i always got an articulate, educated answer that enabled me to progress with a hobby that I am ever more passionate about. Newbies (like me) reading this thread, ask away. Almost everyone here has your back.

EDIT: Do try and search a good bit for a recent enough answer to be accurate before asking though, its the polite thing to do.

I'm not being argumentative or marginalizing the assistance that B&M stores can offer. I am very happy you were able to ascertain the information you desired. I'm merely stating that I have yet to come across a question involving vaping i couldn't get a timely and accurate answer to on ECF.

And im not going to quote him because it is was long post, but i thought everything Dandried said was spot on. And i particularly enjoyed the story about him pissing on a live wire when he was a boy.
 
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