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Possible legal ramifications for Canadian retailers selling nic based juice?

Discussion in 'Canada Forum' started by johnnytwofingers, Mar 31, 2013.

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  1. johnnytwofingers

    johnnytwofingers Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Vancouver, Canada
    Is there any precedent out there for the possible legal ramifications of retailers selling nic based juice in Canada? I was wanting to pick up a bottle of juice the other day and popped into in a tobacco shop hoping they might have some, but no luck. I was talking with the owner for a bit and said he should carry it, but he said he was too nervous about the legal issues.

    Is there any actual instances of actions taken against retailers? I know there are several vape shops in Canada operating out in the open, but to my knowledge nothing more than a warning (please don't sell nicotine juice) letter from Health Canada has ever been sent. Is it possible that they could get their business license &/or tobacco license pulled? Or does Health Canada not actually have any legal power other than to stop the import of juice at the border?

    Curious if anyone knows the low down on all this.
     
  2. Esharp

    Esharp Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 7, 2012
    London, Ontario
  3. johnnytwofingers

    johnnytwofingers Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Vancouver, Canada
  4. Projectguy

    Projectguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2012
    Oakville, ON
    THe fact that ECTA has not published a sticky on this forum outline what the laws are and what our rights are is a disgrace. Nor will I accept the argument that they are an "industry organization" not a consumer organization is nonsense.
     
  5. Vapoor eyes er

    Vapoor eyes er ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2011
    Toronto, Ont.
    I read of one instance where the threat of pulling their tobacco license influenced one tobacco shop owner. My neighborhood shop wanted to sell and he was told the same by inspectors.
     
  6. Projectguy

    Projectguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2012
    Oakville, ON
    Ok so ESharp gave us the link to the VPLive which featured Cindy, owner of Rainbow Vaper this is what she has posted on the legal page of her site;

    Legalities

    Some may consider this as only applying to vendors but it applies to all of us.

    I have been given permission to reproduce Rainbow Vapor's legal here. I strongly urge you to read and become conversant with this information you want to fight back here is a way.

    Know the law.

     
  7. johnnytwofingers

    johnnytwofingers Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Vancouver, Canada
    1. Can you remember when this happened?

    2. Do you know if this was regarding selling nicotine juice specifically, or ecig hardware in general?

    You know, the whole Health Canada stance on this is disingenuous at best. They're allowing SmokeNV and others to sell ecigs without nicotine in retail stores, but nicotine content is disallowed.

    If there's any unknown danger lurking within ecigs, it sure as hell isn't the nicotine. An organization whose mandate is supposed to protect the health of the citizens having this stance on the subject is a joke and they should be ashamed of themselves.
     
  8. Esharp

    Esharp Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 7, 2012
    London, Ontario


    HC position is that nicotine is a drug. That argument has failed in other countries around the world, but HC still holds on to that line. Obviously they don't have a problem with the nicotine free set-ups, so IMO then don't have a problem with vaping, just the nicotine.

    Other dangers, well there is a debate there. We really don't know what the long term effects of vaping are (20, 30yrs), the product is still fairly new. There is concerns that have been raised regarding silica wicks and recently I read an article that was measuring nano particles of metal in the vapor (most likely coming from the heated coil or atty). I wonder how many nano particles of metal are coming out of a cars exhaust. IMHO, I look at it as harm reduction. Although I'm in the process of changing all my wicks to cotton. There is nothing in this world that comes without risk, even e-cigs. Research continues, and products are getting better. We may be guinea pigs, but I feel allot better than when I smoked. So I'm back to "Harm Reduction".
     
  9. Projectguy

    Projectguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2012
    Oakville, ON
    Did you not read below?????????

    And I subscribed to that thread and send a bunch of it to one of my clients (inventor) and he sent it to a buddy metals Phd at MIT who laughed and responded "never not at those temps the mesh would collapse at the temps required to generate CrVI" he add "people with a little knowledge can come to erroneous conclusions which become urban myths"
     
  10. Esharp

    Esharp Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 7, 2012
    London, Ontario
    That's good to know Projectguy - I mentioned it because it was posted as a thread here at EFC, someone had posted the link to the study regarding nano particles of metal in the vapor. Funny thing about the study, it was comparing metal particles in vapor and smoke, my question was, how would there be metal in tobacco? Regardless it did not sway my opinion on vaping. Nano particles are parts per billion, at least the best I can tell. The allowable limit of mercury in fish that is deemed to be safe is one part per million, and mercury is a nasty one. So if nano particles are truly parts per billion, then it should not raise any alarm bells. Thanks for your leg work, as you are saying that our metal parts of vape gear would not reach those heat limits anyways.
     
  11. Donovan69

    Donovan69 Senior Member ECF Veteran

  12. BuzzKilla

    BuzzKilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 4, 2010
    Etobicoke, Ontario
  13. Projectguy

    Projectguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 9, 2012
    Oakville, ON
    Hey Buzz the VPLive is good but what Cindy has on her legal page hits the nail. It should be spread around.
     
  14. BuzzKilla

    BuzzKilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 4, 2010
    Etobicoke, Ontario
    im not dismissing that at all, i just dont think my boss would appreciqte me watching videos, while working....

    he cant her me read from down he hall :evil:
     
  15. johnnytwofingers

    johnnytwofingers Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Vancouver, Canada
    You are correct about their stance, but it's a silly stance to take. By allowing no-nic ecigs, but banning ones with nic, they are acting as if nicotine is the unknown in the equation, when the fact of the matter is, people have been consuming nicotine in cigarettes for decades, whereas the genuinely new aspect, the electronic cigarette and the inhalation of PG/VG/etc is deemed allowable. It's madness!

    Actually, it just makes it blatantly clear....it is not the health aspect that is important in this ruling, it is the addiction aspect. They (the government) are at risk of losing control of a multi-billion dollar per year source of revenue, and they're trying to figure out how to re-harness it without having any logical argument.
     
  16. Esharp

    Esharp Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 7, 2012
    London, Ontario

    That about sums it up....... and I'm sure BP has given HC their two cents worth as well, they also stand to lose a whack of coin........ kinda hard to sell gum and patches that don't work especially when they are now trying to compete with e-cigs that do work!
     
  17. tatt2edone

    tatt2edone Full Member

    Apr 3, 2013
    London, Ontario
    +1000000 to all the amazing contributions to this thread...I read the legals and I have to say that they have won my vote 100%, that was a great informative section.
     
  18. Watchmaker

    Watchmaker Full Member

    Jan 9, 2013
    Vancouver
    I've always been under the impression that when starting an organization that's under watch from any regulatory body, the first thing you do is establish the legal rights and framework you'll be operating under. How can you have trade when your product is being confiscated or refused at the border?
     
  19. longtimesmok

    longtimesmok Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2012
    montreal
    the ECTA is nothing and is crumbling day by day, they started with 10 and now down to 6 as i got wind that yet another vendor has left since they realized it is a useless group. i knew this from when they first came out, to bad all the people buy into the propaganda they put out, give them to end 2013 they will not exist.
     
  20. johnnytwofingers

    johnnytwofingers Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 24, 2012
    Vancouver, Canada
    Well that's not good to hear....do you have any details on who was in and now left?
     
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