FDA Post-hearing reactions?

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beebopnjazz

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I'll second that for damn sure. I'm approaching age 61. I've seen this government slowly slip away from the control of the citizens. Now all politicians care about is funding for their next election campaign and that of their respective parties. Both R's & D's are equally guilty. D's want a nanny state. R's want a police state with the imposition of their vision of medieval morals. Both disgust me. Both serve their financial masters and their absolute lowest priority is the welfare of the nation and its citizens.

We Americans still at the very least give lip service to the Declaration of Independence. An excerpt of that document:

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.

I was a little girl in the 60's but I read a book - don't remember the title - that explained the platforms in the 60's and how far off course they've become over the decades; not including the past 2.

If the vaping issue had come up in the 60's or even the 70's I don't think it would look like this.

Personally, if BT gets to run this horse and pony show, I have no doubt they will find a way to add some of the same substances that enhanced the addictiveness of cigarettes. Not like they haven't lied before.....and I also think BT's relatively new involvement is throwing us under the bus in the public's collective eye. We are now associated with BT. :ohmy:

Understandably, the Sottera decision was better for us than vaping being part of BP.

Congress also directed the FDA to speed track and simplify tobacco harm reduction. Unfortunately it fell under medical/devices in the TCA. :(. Without new technology and congress stepping in to reclassify perhaps - I don't see this happening. I don't know if the FDA can request a new classification? (Or that they would)

The powers that be should remember - 20% of the population smokes (I think that's right) - 1/5 of the citizenry - that's a lot of votes! I don't think they would like their potential quit being removed from the marketplace!

With significant primary research in showing vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking, you'd think the FDA would only require that the ingredients are pharma grade nic and usp grade pg/VG along with food grade flavorings - and continue the research to make sure the flavorings aren't an issue (less sensitivities/allergies).

Vendor registration / spot checks maybe to ensure the proper grade of ingredients are being used, etc. One can wish.....but keep up the good fight along the way!
 

DaveP

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BeeBopnJazz wrote:
I was a little girl in the 60's but I read a book - don't remember the title - that explained the platforms in the 60's and how far off course they've become over the decades; not including the past 2.

If the vaping issue had come up in the 60's or even the 70's I don't think it would look like this.

I was on a plane smoking a cigarette after takeoff in the early 70s and I came across an article about a New Orleans law firm that was about to bring a lawsuit against the tobacco companies and initiate lobbying efforts to abolish smoking in America. I thought to myself, "Good luck! Those are rich companies with the backing of a couple hundred million smokers, most of whom don't want to quit."

The 60s were pretty much out of control by the end of the decade. There was rampant political power being wielded by old school good old boy politicians that were able to get away with back room deals. Those were the days before reporters gained the backing to openly go after corruption. Back room deals still go on every day, but there's a new set of rules in place. 80% of the non-smoking public is available for backing today and they are completely for anything that tears down the product they despise. The problem I see is that they just might tear down the vehicle (ecigs) that would allow smokers to quit easily.

Tobacco companies were doing the same things last decade with full knowledge of their actions, but so many people smoked there wasn't enough power in the ANTZ corner to garner support against them. The tobacco formulation has been designed to enhance addiction for longer than we know.
 
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Bill Godshall

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The most impactful thing vapers (who live in states of a Senate HELP Cmte member) can do in the next week is call or write your Senator (either in DC or at one of their state offices) expressing outrage at the comments made by Senator Harkin and CDC's Tim McAfee at yesterday's hearing, praising the statements made by Senators Alexander and Burr, telling the Senator how you quit smoking (or reduced cigarette consumption) by switching to vapor products, and urging the Senator to oppose the FDA's proposed deeming regulation because it would ban nearly all e-cig products now on the market and give the e-cig industry to Big Tobacco.

Letters and calls to Harkin, Alexander and Burr would also be very helpful (as Harkin needs to hear that he's dead wrong, while Alexander and Burr need to hear support for their statements, as we may need their help again if Harkin decides to keep pushing his agenda).

US Senate HELP Committee
U.S. Senate
http://www.help.senate.gov/

Democrats

Tom Harkin (IA) Chair
(202) 224-3254
Contact Tom

Barbara Mikulski (MD)
(202) 224-4654
Senator Barbara Mikulski: Contact My Offices

Patty Murray (WA)
(202) 224-2626
Contact Me - United States Senator Patty Murray

Bernard Sanders (VT)
(202) 224-5141
Contact - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Robert P. Casey, Jr (PA)
(202) 224-6324
Contact - U.S. Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania

Kay Hagen (NC)
(202) 224-6342
Kay Hagan | U.S. Senator for North Carolina

Al Franken (MN)
(202) 224-5641
Al Franken | Senator for Minnesota

Michael Bennet (CO)
(202) 224-5852
Michael Bennet - United States Senator for Colorado : Contact Michael

Sheldon Whitehouse (RI)
(202) 224-2921
Contact | United States Senator Sheldon Whitehouse

Tammy Baldwin (WI)
(202) 224-5653
Email Tammy | Contact | Tammy Baldwin | U.S. Senator for Wisconsin

Christopher Murphy (CT)
(202) 224-4041
Contact | U.S. Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut

Elizabeth Warren (MA)
(202) 224-4543
Email Elizabeth | Elizabeth Warren | U.S. Senator for Massachusetts

Republicans

Lamar Alexander (TN) Ranking Member
(202) 224-4944
E-mail Me - Contact - U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander

Michael Enzi (WY)
(202) 224-3424
E-mail Senator Enzi - Contact - United States Senator Mike Enzi

Richard Burr (NC)
(202) 224-3154
http://www.burr.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.ContactForm

Johnny Isakson (GA)
(202) 224-3643
E-mail Me - How Can I Help? - U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson

Rand Paul (KY)
(202) 224-4343
Contact Rand Paul | United States Senator

Orrin Hatch (UT)
(202) 224-5251
www.hatch.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/contact?p=Email-Orrin

Pat Roberts (KS)
(202) 224-4774
E-mail Pat - Contact - U.S. Senator Pat Roberts

Lisa Murkowski (AK)
(202) 224-6665
Contact - United States Senator Lisa Murkowski

Mark Kirk (IL)
(202) 224-2854
Contact Mark | Mark Kirk | Senator for Illinois

Tim Scott (SC)
(202) 224-6121
Email Me | Senator Tim Scott
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
5,171
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The most impactful thing vapers (who live in states of a Senate HELP Cmte member) can do in the next week is call or write your Senator (either in DC or at one of their state offices) expressing outrage at the comments made by Senator Harkin and CDC's Tim McAfee at yesterday's hearing, praising the statements made by Senators Alexander and Burr, telling the Senator how you quit smoking (or reduced cigarette consumption) by switching to vapor products, and urging the Senator to oppose the FDA's proposed deeming regulation because it would ban nearly all e-cig products now on the market and give the e-cig industry to Big Tobacco.

Letters and calls to Harkin, Alexander and Burr would also be very helpful (as Harkin needs to hear that he's dead wrong, while Alexander and Burr need to hear support for their statements, as we may need their help again if Harkin decides to keep pushing his agenda).

US Senate HELP Committee
U.S. Senate
US Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, & Pensions: Home

Democrats

Tom Harkin (IA) Chair
(202) 224-3254
Contact Tom

Barbara Mikulski (MD)
(202) 224-4654
Senator Barbara Mikulski: Contact My Offices

Patty Murray (WA)
(202) 224-2626
Contact Me - United States Senator Patty Murray

Bernard Sanders (VT)
(202) 224-5141
Contact - Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont

Robert P. Casey, Jr (PA)
(202) 224-6324
Contact - U.S. Senator Bob Casey of Pennsylvania

Kay Hagen (NC)
(202) 224-6342
Kay Hagan | U.S. Senator for North Carolina

Al Franken (MN)
(202) 224-5641
Al Franken | Senator for Minnesota

Michael Bennet (CO)
(202) 224-5852
Michael Bennet - United States Senator for Colorado : Contact Michael

Sheldon Whitehouse (RI)
(202) 224-2921
Contact | United States Senator Sheldon Whitehouse

Tammy Baldwin (WI)
(202) 224-5653
Email Tammy | Contact | Tammy Baldwin | U.S. Senator for Wisconsin

Christopher Murphy (CT)
(202) 224-4041
Contact | U.S. Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut

Elizabeth Warren (MA)
(202) 224-4543
Email Elizabeth | Elizabeth Warren | U.S. Senator for Massachusetts

Republicans

Lamar Alexander (TN) Ranking Member
(202) 224-4944
E-mail Me - Contact - U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander

Michael Enzi (WY)
(202) 224-3424
E-mail Senator Enzi - Contact - United States Senator Mike Enzi

Richard Burr (NC)
(202) 224-3154
http://www.burr.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.ContactForm

Johnny Isakson (GA)
(202) 224-3643
E-mail Me - How Can I Help? - U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson

Rand Paul (KY)
(202) 224-4343
Contact Rand Paul | United States Senator

Orrin Hatch (UT)
(202) 224-5251
Email Orrin - Contact - United States Senator Orrin Hatch

Pat Roberts (KS)
(202) 224-4774
E-mail Pat - Contact - U.S. Senator Pat Roberts

Lisa Murkowski (AK)
(202) 224-6665
Contact - United States Senator Lisa Murkowski

Mark Kirk (IL)
(202) 224-2854
Contact Mark | Mark Kirk | Senator for Illinois

Tim Scott (SC)
(202) 224-6121
Email Me | Senator Tim Scott
 

DeeLeeKay

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In the hearing yesterday Zeller flat out said:
We tried to regulate e-cigarettes out of existence but the courts (Scotta) wouldn't let us, we need to deem e-cigarettes to be tobacco products and we get to try again.

Option 3) seems viable....but waiting years on lawyers and appeals is looking for a "fairy godmother" to save us.

Not really that long. A well placed class action lawsuit would go a long way to getting this resolved. There appears to be about 20% of the population who need nicotine as a dietary supplement. How can they legislate a supplement that some people need?
 

Sirius

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I agree Bill -- I also think a good game plan would be for every vaper in every state, (Senate HELP Cmte member state or not) should write to their representativeness in both the house and senate. Actually sit down and pen a letter. (I know nobody much does that anymore, but it carries weight) and besides writing e-mail and call them too. I'm working on my letters atm. Have already called and e-mailed. Hey, it's a start to a game plan anyway. Anyone have better ideas please speak up?
 

Stosh

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Not really that long. A well placed class action lawsuit would go a long way to getting this resolved. There appears to be about 20% of the population who need nicotine as a dietary supplement. How can they legislate a supplement that some people need?

Fighting the FDA, who would have a bottomless pit of money for lawyers, 2-3 years would be the expected average. How many small vendors or manufacturers could wait that long without income?

How can they legislate / regulate cheese made overseas, how can they legislate / regulate laser pointers, how can they legislate / regulate sunscreen.....the list is endless.
 

pamdis

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Not really that long. A well placed class action lawsuit would go a long way to getting this resolved. There appears to be about 20% of the population who need nicotine as a dietary supplement. How can they legislate a supplement that some people need?

FDA already ruled it out as a dietary supplement in 2002. Don't know if the mfgs fought back, or just gave in. But I agree, a lawsuit will be necessary.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=20851

Although "Nicotine Water" is promoted by the manufacturer as a dietary supplement, this product does not meet the statutory definition of a dietary supplement. Under the Act, a "dietary supplement" does not include a product that contains an active ingredient that FDA has already approved for use in a drug. Because the nicotine and nicotine polacrilex in "Nicotine Water" are both active ingredients in FDA-approved drugs (such as Nicoderm CQ, Prostep, Habitrol, and Nicorette) "Nicotine Water" cannot be marketed as a dietary supplement.

In light of these determinations, FDA will notify manufacturers of "Nicotine Water" that this product cannot be marketed without new drug approval by the agency.
 

AgentAnia

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I agree Bill -- I also think a good game plan would be for every vaper in every state, (Senate HELP Cmte member state or not) should write to their representativeness in both the house and senate. Actually sit down and pen a letter. (I know nobody much does that anymore, but it carries weight) and besides writing e-mail and call them too. I'm working on my letters atm. Have already called and e-mailed. Hey, it's a start to a game plan anyway. Anyone have better ideas please speak up?

Bear in mind that because of post-9/11 security measures in place for congressional mail, physical letters to members of Congress can take up to 4 weeks to be delivered. Letters definitely have their place, just don't expect immediate feedback.
 

Sirius

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Bear in mind that because of post-9/11 security measures in place for congressional mail, physical letters to members of Congress can take up to 4 weeks to be delivered. Letters definitely have their place, just don't expect immediate feedback.

I'm sure I'm on their list..I've sent a ton of letters to the House and Senate in my conservative days. When I switched to the Libertarian Party I made it clear to the Repubs why I did that. The two parties are the same. Why doesn't anybody get that?
 

Bob Chill

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I sent a letter to Barbara Mikulski. It's long so if nobody here reads it I won't hold it against them. lol

Dear Senator Mikulski,

I am very concerned about the FDA's deeming regulations for the electronic cigarette industry. Myself and my wife are both responsible adults and have a family of 4 children. We both struggled for nearly a decade trying to quit smoking and we tried all the methods including cold turkey, nicotine replacement therapy, and even prescription drugs. None of these methods worked for more than a few months and it wasn't for lack of trying. The prescription medication attempt was a huge mistake. We've never been on any prescription drugs other than antibiotics and the side effects from the drugs were downright scary. I can't believe they are even allowed.

11 months ago my wife and I decided to try electronic cigarettes. It was an instant success and we both have not inhaled combustible tobacco smoke for almost a year and counting. We have both reduced our nicotine intake substantially since the beginning and our health has improved dramatically. I consider electronic cigarettes a modern health miracle that have the potential to save millions of Americans lives if the industry is allowed to flourish. We are not sure how long we will continue to use electronic cigarettes but that decision should be ours to make and not any branch of the Government.

The deeming regulations from the FDA has the potential to destroy the industry as we know it. As written, it can basically remove all the technology advancements that have been made since 2007. This technology has been paramount to the high success rate of getting Americans off of deadly tobacco smoke and replacing it with an exponentially less harmful alternative. Under the proposal, any accessory not on the market pre-2007 will require testing and approval. The cost of the approval process (and even the process itself) is extremely burdensome and will likely squash the majority of existing products and prevent new technology from entering the market. The proposed rules are backwards and poorly thought out. If the true goal of the American Government is to reduce the number of citizens using combustible tobacco products then the proposed rules MUST be changed.

It really makes no sense to me. All of the products operate the exact same way. Resistance wire heats a solution and turns it into vapor. A simple battery provides the power. Whether it's a small unit resembling a cigarette or a more advanced tank system, they are virtually identical in function. However, the more advanced systems are what makes the industry successful in keeping users from going to back to combustible tobacco products. The gas station disposable electronic cigarettes are not satisfying. They are not the answer and if the industry reverts back to old and poorly performing technology it will be at the expense of potentially millions of American lives.

Many of the regulations are being supported by misinformation and flat out lies from both regulators and the media. Nicotine does not cause cancer. Nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine. Studies (from places like NIH) have been done on the effects of nicotine that show no mortality, adverse health effects, or cancerous properties. The only thing that makes nicotine dangerous is delivering it through smoke that contains large quantities of toxic chemicals. The FDA has even approved nicotine replacement therapies for long term use.

Another key component to making electronic cigarettes satisfying enough to keep people from going back to combustible products are flavors. Users are trying to get away from the taste of tobacco and flavors provide just that. It's a completely baseless argument that the flavors are specifically used to market to children. If that was the case then flavored alcohol drinks should be banned immediately as well. Adults love flavors and we desire flavors. As a parent of 4 children, it is my responsibility to guide them through decisions and not the Government's.

The proposal also unjustly burdens the manufacturers of the e liquid because as written it would require each individual flavor to go through rigorous testing before being allowed on the market. This makes absolutely no sense. Virtually all e liquid is made from the same 4 ingredients: pharmaceutical grade propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and FDA approved flavors. All of the ingredients are already approved for consumption. It makes no sense to force them to be approved again for consumption when they already are. It's a redundant regulation that will have a large negative impact on the industry.

Age restrictions on the products is a must and I fully support that part of the proposal. I also support warning labels. However, supporting the other proposed regulations is basically saying I don't care about the life and health of people who are looking for an alternative to smoking that works. And will likely be proven to work exponentially better than all other methods combined if given the opportunity.

My wife and I are not alone in our success with quitting smoking by using electronic cigarettes. I have witnessed 9 close friends, coworkers, and family members quit smoking almost instantly by switching to electronic cigarettes. There are literally hundreds of thousands of others with similar stories but that gets no recognition whatsoever. It's called anecdotal evidence in the media and quickly dismissed. I see it as fact and have witnessed 10 people with my own eyes. And I have zero reason to doubt anyone else's story because the product simply works better than any other method. It's a fact that decision makers refuse to accept or even entertain and it greatly upsets me.

I respectfully ask your help in protecting the rights and freedoms of the citizens of this Country. They should be allowed open access to products with limited harm that work. Especially when it comes to products that assist in getting Americans off of cigarettes. Blocking or heavily restricting access to a product that is already proven to have far less toxins and magnitudes of reduced harm from cigarettes in incomprehensible to me. The advancements in technology must be protected. The variety of flavors must remain. The availability of bottled e liquid must not be hindered. Please help protect our freedom and health.

Respectfully,

Robert Chill
 

Stosh

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I sent a letter to Barbara Mikulski. It's long so if nobody here reads it I won't hold it against them. lol

Dear Senator Mikulski,

I am very concerned about the FDA's deeming regulations for the electronic cigarette industry. <snip>

Respectfully,

Robert Chill

Very nicely written, I plan to plagiarizer it making changes where necessary. (if you don't mind?)....:blush:
 

Bob Chill

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Very nicely written, I plan to plagiarizer it making changes where necessary. (if you don't mind?)....:blush:

Don't mind in any way.

I agree with Irwink but the only things I can do is be a pain in the .... with comments on articles, donate money to CASAA, and write letters to the Gov. I do all 3 and it makes me feel good. Even if my efforts are futile, I'm doing what I can.
 

Gato del Jugo

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Don't mind in any way.

I agree with Irwink but the only things I can do is be a pain in the .... with comments on articles, donate money to CASAA, and write letters to the Gov. I do all 3 and it makes me feel good. Even if my efforts are futile, I'm doing what I can.

And for those who've yet to do so, become a Supporting Member at ECF.. It's only 24 bucks for 1 year, people! (Or $40 if you want)..

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/payments.php

This is the place that has made a lot of this possible for all of us.. And how much per month did you used to spend on smokes??


ECF has a store with some cool gear, too.. :)

ECF Store
 

Sirius

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Good luck with the polite letters to corrupt politicians who serve only their own personal interests as part of a broken and corrupt system. The time has long passed for citizens of this country to take back what was once their government by any means necessary.

That's what I'm talking about. Both parties are corrupt as hell..Fire 'um all and start all over. Vote Libertarian! Get the government out of our lives!
 

Sirius

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