EU Prescribed Medicine in the UK

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Vosblod

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Apr 16, 2014
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Sorry if I am posting something already there but it occurs to me that if e-cigs will become medicated and prescribed by a Doctor then you cannot ban someone from taking their prescribed medicine?
Hence if a qualified practitioner, under the proposed new system, prescribes an e-cigarette I cannot be stopped from taking my medication in any public place. Well in fact anywhere at all - no one can tell you you cannot take your medicine.
 

jpargana

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Sorry if I am posting something already there but it occurs to me that if e-cigs will become medicated and prescribed by a Doctor then you cannot ban someone from taking their prescribed medicine?
Hence if a qualified practitioner, under the proposed new system, prescribes an e-cigarette I cannot be stopped from taking my medication in any public place. Well in fact anywhere at all - no one can tell you you cannot take your medicine.

"no one can tell you you cannot take your medicine"

From a stricly legal perspective, I guess not. But I can see many overly righteous people who will TRY to do just that.

You see, ANTZ's ideology is out there to get us. Even if the e-cig became a 'medication', it would still be seen as a 'want', not a 'need'. If someone started complaining about us vaping inside, trouble would start. Even if we presented the prescription for everyone to see, we would be still frowned upon and considered as 'cheaters': "Those inconsiderate people have found a 'legal' way of sidestepping those SMOKING bans (Nevermind the fact that it's not smoke...) WE had so much trouble to demand!". As if WE were the ones who ASKED for 'medical regulation' in the first place! I can see the next ANTZ's lie spread on the news: "Vapers DEMANDED for medical regulation on their e-cigs, so that they could have the 'RIGHT' to vape anywere they want! They are upsetting the children!".

Of course, less people would then believe the "no-one knows what's in there" lie, since the e-cig is 'now' a medicine and all that, but remember that smoking bans in places like beaches and parks, out in the open, are NOT based on real health concerns, but rather on ideology: protecting the 'childrun' from seeing the disgusting, depravated, decadent act of smoking...!

So, I can see many obnoxious people making life hard for us because we will be using something that THEY will not see as 'medicine' at all, but rather as a dirty trick we discovered to have things our own way. And 'our own way' is against the 'normalized', 'respecful' way... :(
 

Anjaffm

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Good one, jpargana :thumbs:
And yes, in the eyes of the ANTZ, we are not "sick". We are "depraved".
A certain (legal, medical) substitute substance for a highly illegal drug comes to mind. No, those people do not use that everywhere. And do not think for one moment that those who consider smokers - and vapers - the scum of the earth will not come up with that comparison.
 
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I think that e-cigs as a medicine could potentially be a very good thing, allowing doctors to prescribe e-cigs is not really a problem, it is a positive thing that would almost certainly introduce vast numbers of people to vaping and take them away from smoking. The problem is that the medical profession want to have control over everything regardless of whether in their own minds its with good intentions. So its not simply enough for them to be allowed to prescribe it, they want laws to be brought in that means that you can only get it from them and they control the dosage you're allowed to have. They arrogantly assume that they know more than everyone about everything and from this they infer that they have the right to decide what you do and don't put in your body.

I don't think that e-cigs will become officially medicinally regulated just yet and I think its best that it stays that way for a while until there are more vapers around to stop oppressive regulation and give the medical profession a chance to catch up. You only have to have a conversation with your doctor to realise that the vast majority of them know nothing about e-cigs apart from the fact that they exist.
 

jpargana

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Having a consumer product, that we use only to enjoy ourselves and to replace a much worse alternative, under the control of BP is the last thing we need right now.

You may start using NA-beer because you enjoy having a beer, but you want to cut down on alchool. That would be considered a personal, and wise decision. But how many 'nannying' doctors would actually advise you to drink NA-beer? Would they not tell you "Have a mineral water instead"? Now, suppose that you actually need a 'NA-beer prescription' to get one. Just because the good Dr is 'now' allowed to give you that prescription, it does not mean he feels inclined to do it. And, without that prescription, and if you really like beer, you would probably arrive at the pub and buy a more available, alchoolic, non-prescription beer, instead of the mineral water the doctor advised.

I remember some interview with a Portuguese doctor, some time ago... a rabid anti-e-cig one. She considered the selling of e-cigs as "a major stepback in the fight against tobacco", because e-cigs "keep the user hooked to the behavioral dependency of tobacco" (Nevermind that the "behaviour" will not kill us or make us sick), and because "the ultimate goal of the fight against tobacco is quitting cigarettes, not replacing them" (Nevermind the fact that if we replace ALL tobacco cigarettes by vaping, then, for all pratical purposes, we have quit cigarette use!!)

She even talked about some inhaler sold by Pharma years ago, that was actually very similar to the e-cig. It was having great success, but, it was supposed to be used for a short time, like, allegedly, all other NRT's. When doctors realized that people were using them long-term, like we do with our e-cigs, the product was taken off the market, because people "have not really quit smoking with those"... making lots of users to return to the patch and gum, and later to cigarettes...! On ther other hand, if someone is using the patch/gum for years, it is not seen as a 'problem', because there's no 'behaviour'...

It's this kind of 'nannying ideology over objective, verifiable health benefits on real people out there' that makes me mad.

I would surelly feel troubled if this kind of nannyism, of need for control, took over a personal, adult, and informed decision we made for ourselves, concerning our own lives.
 

Anjaffm

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Having a consumer product, that we use only to enjoy ourselves and to replace a much worse alternative, under the control of BP is the last thing we need right now.

You may start using NA-beer because you enjoy having a beer, but you want to cut down on alchool. That would be considered a personal, and wise decision. But how many 'nannying' doctors would actually advise you to drink NA-beer? Would they not tell you "Have a mineral water instead"? Now, suppose that you actually need a 'NA-beer prescription' to get one. Just because the good Dr is 'now' allowed to give you that prescription, it does not mean he feels inclined to do it. And, without that prescription, and if you really like beer, you would probably arrive at the pub and buy a more available, alchoolic, non-prescription beer, instead of the mineral water the doctor advised.

I remember some interview with a Portuguese doctor, some time ago... a rabid anti-e-cig one. She considered the selling of e-cigs as "a major stepback in the fight against tobacco", because e-cigs "keep the user hooked to the behavioral dependency of tobacco" (Nevermind that the "behaviour" will not kill us or make us sick), and because "the ultimate goal of the fight against tobacco is quitting cigarettes, not replacing them" (Nevermind the fact that if we replace ALL tobacco cigarettes by vaping, then, for all pratical purposes, we have quit cigarette use!!)

She even talked about some inhaler sold by Pharma years ago, that was actually very similar to the e-cig. It was having great success, but, it was supposed to be used for a short time, like, allegedly, all other NRT's. When doctors realized that people were using them long-term, like we do with our e-cigs, the product was taken off the market, because people "have not really quit smoking with those"... making lots of users to return to the patch and gum, and later to cigarettes...! On ther other hand, if someone is using the patch/gum for years, it is not seen as a 'problem', because there's no 'behaviour'...

It's this kind of 'nannying ideology over objective, verifiable health benefits on real people out there' that makes me mad.

I would surelly feel troubled if this kind of nannyism, of need for control, took over a personal, adult, and informed decision we made for ourselves, concerning our own lives.

excellent posting, thank you! :thumbs:
 

-mj01-

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If vaping became something that was prescribed, there'd surely be a class one would have to take with physician referral and a waiting period to get into the class. Then, a follow-up appointment - both of which fully equipped with a co-payment of some sort. Next, you'd have a formulary to deal with, as insurance companies would not cover every piece of equipment or every type/brand of juice. Of course, let's not forget about follow-up appointments (with co-payments) and the insistence that you reduce nicotine dosage and eventually stop vaping.

#nothanks
 

Sarin

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We might one day see doctors prescribing e-cigs as NRT but they will come under intense pressure from the pharma's who are losing profit. Drug reps are viscous about their targets and will use every underhand tactic to sell their products. Dare i say that some doctors are "persuaded" to prescribe certain brands of drugs - take "persuasion" how you will. How do i know this? Ex girlfriend used to be a rep for a very big pharma, she had no worries "persuading" doctors to use their products. Entertainment budget i think it was called ;)
 

Brainmelt

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Oct 1, 2013
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London
Unfortunately, if it does become classed as a medicine it will not be a prescription based medicine it'll be an 'over the counter' jobbie - like paracetamol. So they can still impose whatever other restrictions they feel like.

It is all a complete and utter nonsense anyway - nicotine is not a medicine. Yes it is a drug, but so is caffeine and you don't need to pop in to boots just to get a cup of coffee do you?

Just out of interest, does anyone know if they will class zero nic e-liquids/e-cigs as medicine also? If so, then this means that it is not the nicotine that is the medicine. So in theory it would make PG or VG the medicine - so does that mean all those cosmetics and the like will all be classed as medicines too? Curing the deadly dirty hair syndrome?? (theoretically like)
 

rolygate

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Currently, the UK is set for a two-tier system once the new EU TPD has been implemented, probably by 2016. There will be a consumer products group and a medical products group.

We don't know how the EU consumer product regulations will be transposed and implemented in the UK. The regs class ecigs as a 'tobacco product' and introduce many restrictions. Depending on how the regs are interpreted, 99.9% of current products could be eliminated along with most small businesses including shops, along with bans on advertising that might even be applied to community resources such as forums.

The reason behind the legislation is to protect tobacco cigarette sales, because so many people and organisations with power depend on the smoking economy and the immense funds it generates: the vast tax revenues, 15% of the pharmaceutical industry's overall income, the cigarette trade, the tobacco control industry; and government departments such as the Department of Health do what they are told by the pharmaceutical industry. Remember that you buy your cigarettes from the government: they are a greater than 90% stakeholder in tobacco sales. The tobacco industry is a very minor partner at somewhere around a 9% stakeholding. The government makes about three times the cost of EU membership from tobacco sales and the resulting savings on pensions etc.

Since the reason is to protect smoking, then we can expect that implementation of the EU regs will be as strict as possible, and in addition will become stricter over time. They see their achievable goal as removal of the independent ecig industry and giving the market to the giant cigarette firms, plus one or two large ecig firms. Under this scenario, which is what they are aiming for now (a total ban on ecigs failed), only minis sold by Big Tobacco and NJoy etc. will be left as a legal product.

As far as medicalisation goes in the UK, the MHRA lied and lied for several years in respect of the possible licensing of ecigs. When it came to the crunch and they had to license an ecig for medical use, they finally refused - after one firm (Intellicig) had spent 4 years and £2 million on the license application. The MHRA now admit that they will never license an ecig: all current ecigs are unlicensable and impossible to adapt for licensing, according to them. They now demand that a new type of 'ecig' is invented that has a metered dose.

There are a couple of firms in the running for this new type of license, but the likelihood is that the result will be similar to the current nicotine inhalers - they certainly won't be ecigs of any kind we would recognise. So in fact things have moved on somewhat from a situation where an ecig might have got an MA and was able to be prescribed or sold OTC; some devices will probably be available at some point but they certainly won't be anything that you or anyone else will want - just like the current inhalators, they will be useless for the purpose of attracting smokers. Smokers don't want a medical device, that's why they don't work. This of course is the design objective.

The MHRA are inveterate liars and always have been - I have experienced it, in detail, at first hand, so there is no possible way that anyone can convince me otherwise (or build any legal case for libel). Jeremy Mean is a professional liar, it's what he's paid to do. He has deliberately lied to me personally and there is no possible way to deny it.

The Department of Health are owned lock stock and barrel by the pharmaceutical industry, and you can regard Jeremy Hunt (Minister for Health) as pharma's man in government. He is prepared to kill millions of people in order to protect pharma profits - take a look at his personal war against ecigs, when Prof Britton has made it very clear that 5 million lives could be saved in the UK, just in those alive today, by a population-level switch to ecigs.

Therefore we can expect that the MHRA will never license any kind of device that is recognisable as an ecig, and that the Dept of Health will do their best to kill consumer ecigs in the UK. Only the major tobacco firms will be left with a legal ecig to sell - and you can probably expect that they won't do their utmost to ensure that ecig sales eliminate tobacco cigarette sales :))

That suits everyone (who counts). You are a citizen and you count less than the average worm. You are there to be exploited, taxed till the pips squeak, then die young from being forced to smoke. Please remember your place, and don't complain. If you complain then be aware you may suffer the consequences in the neo-Stalinist EU and its province the UK.

Some people think I go too far, or that I am wrong. Unfortunately I'm always, without exception, proved right.
 

jpargana

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(...)
You are a citizen and you count less than the average worm. You are there to be exploited, taxed till the pips squeak, then die young from being forced to smoke. Please remember your place, and don't complain. If you complain then be aware you may suffer the consequences in the neo-Stalinist EU and its province the UK.

(...)


That's it, in a nutshell. Unfortunately :(
 
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