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Pretty Please Help w/Nic Salt (losing my mind!)

Discussion in '"Where can I get a .......?"' started by Persephone33, Jun 11, 2019 at 5:13 AM.

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  1. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    Hi all!!!
    So I’m exhausted by researching online about nic salts to no avail. Literally making me nuts! Let me preface this by saying I’m like a week new to vaping & there’s so much I need to learn. It took me so long to switch from disposable ecigs because the term “box mod” made me think that ppl were assembling/building/modifying the tanks to their specific need. I didn’t trust myself to do all that. So now...Here’s my thing- I do enjoy the clean refreshing simple fruit blends (not candy or cereal flavors, nothing too sweet). I also like a high nic level (apparently) because I just ran through a 30ml bottle of 12% nic in 3 days because that’s the highest I could get!! Several websites are offering 0,3,6 & very few offer 12%. I’d say about 80% of the ejuice I’d like to buy tops out at 6%. Since I’ve been getting ripped off for 3 yrs using the Vuse Solo cartridges & recently discovered they are freaking 48% nic, my tolerance is pretty high. Please explain to me how nic salts work. Is it a high nic% liquid/oil that I can add to my tasty low nic ejuice & get what the satisfying nicotine level w/o a harsh cowboy killer throat hit? That’s what I’m hoping. A decent throat hit is welcome, but no pain please, lol. Thanks so much for reading this & thankyou even more if you take time to throw some knowledge my way. Vape
     
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  2. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Have you looked at eightvape? They have all kinds of nic salts, not sure about the nic strength tho. You may want to look into some of the places that sell nic and nic salts in many strengths. If you buy a bottle of nic salts and want to know how much to put in go the the DIY forums for help here.

    DIY E-Liquid

    You can start your own thread or ask on one that's open. Many knowledgeable people willing to assist you.

    You can buy the nic bases at severals DIY shops. Ecigexpress and Nicotine River come to mind. Be sure to read all the info they provide.

    Hope this helps.


    :)
     
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  3. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    The percent thing is throwing me here. Do you mean 12mg/ml?

    % and mg/ml are not even close to the same.

    Pure unprotonated nic is a bit over 1000mg/ml so 100mg/ml is around 10% strength. That’s crazy strong. Cough yourself crosseyed strong. I usually vape 6mg/ml in DL which is less than 1%.

    There has been a thing where JUUL has attempted to confuse the strength issue by making up their own system based on percents, but they don’t sell bottled juice and no one else uses it that I know of.

    There ARE a lot of flavors which are only sold at a max of 6mg/ml. Different area have different laws about vaping and some places put a maximum on juice strength so nationally sold brands frequently adhere to the weakest standard. 6mg/ml is not useful for most MTL vapers. Especially for new ones who are just trying to quit, unless they vape big puffer DL attys that run through a lot of juice.

    Perhaps the best thing to do is take pix of the labels of a few of these juices so we can get the strength issue worked out and go from there.
     
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  4. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    To avoid confusion later on, I'll note that you've got nicotine percentage confused with mg/ml. (Don't worry - you're certainly not the first to make that mistake.) 100% nicotine is 1,000 mg/ml, so 48% nicotine would be 480 mg/ml, which might well be a lethal dose. Your cartridges are really 48 mg/ml or 4.8%, and the common concentrations of freebase (not nic salt) nicotine are 3 mg/ml, 6 mg/ml and 12 mg/ml.

    On to nic salts...

    Nicotine for vaping is available as:
    • Freebase nicotine
    • Nic salts (there are several different types of nic salts, but I don't think you need to worry about that right now)
    Freebase nicotine has enough throat hit to make it more-or-less unvapeable in high concentrations in most existing devices, so someone came up with the idea of converting it into nic salts to reduce the throat hit. Nic salts are just a different chemical form of nicotine with less throat hit.

    About how to get it, I think your best bet is to find a vendor that sells juices that come in high-strength nic salt versions. I'm only familiar with Canadian juice vendors so I can't help you there, but I can assure you that they do exist.

    It is possible to buy 100 mg/ml nic salts and add it to juice you get elsewhere, but it looks like you'd have to add an awful lot to get the concentrations you're looking for and that would dilute it too much. For example, if you had 30 ml of 6 mg/ml juice, you'd need to add about 24 ml of nic base (the 100 mg/ml salt nic) to get to 48 mg/ml.

    On the other hand, you may not need to go that high. Pod mods are really low powered compared to box mods, so they go through juice comparatively slowly. That's why the concentration needs to be so high with them. When switching to a non-pod mod, it's perfectly normal to start going through a lot more juice. While you're not satisfied with 12 mg/ml, you'll probably find that 18 mg/ml or 24 mg/ml is suitable and you don't need to go all the way up to 48 mg/ml. It's probably not a bad idea to get some nic salt base and experiment with adding it to the juice you have to see what concentration works with your new device.

    Good luck!
     
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  5. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I would contend that they’re completely different chemicals that have nicotine in them and may or may not have other various effects because of this, none of which have been studied. Turning nic into a nic salt effectively makes a nicotine based designer drug. It is perhaps splitting hairs though
    I’m not a fan of salts but that could work. Another thought would be perhaps to ask the guy at the vape shop if he has any 18mg or 24mg juices. A third idea may be to find a juice flavor you like, go online and contact the manufacturer to see if they sell the juice in a higher concentration and if you can buy it online. Just because your vape shop doesn’t carry it doesn’t mean it’s not made.
     
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  6. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    Dude!!! Thank you soooooo much. You are a true gentleman to have read my long post & taken the time to give me the lessen I needed in nic salts. Thanks for getting me straightened out on the percentages too. You are the 1st person that has corrected me!

    I think I’ll be going with your idea of getting some nic salts to add to what I already have. Right on! You have pretty much made my day. I thought I was just gonna have several wasted bottles of 6ml but I feel better now. I also agree with you,,, I don’t need to go up nearly as high as I thought. I’ll let ya know how it goes.
    Have a great night...Vape
     
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  7. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    ummm bomb. In the process of making 'freebase nic' used by tobacco companies and what we can buy in DIY shops is the same process where they attempt to remove all of the elements to help purify the nicotine. One of those 'elements' is actually salt. So by adding salt back into the freebase depends on which process they use(as there are several different methods and chemicals) Can't say which one would be the better one as I don't care for nic salts myself so I do not use personally. (tried it--no thanks) So while I do not totally disagree with your statement, just wanted to let you know that its not entirely a 'new designer drug' so to speak. Effective---seems to be. Necessary---not at all.

    But to add a high nic content to already mixed ejuice is going to really dilute the ejuice. OP would be better off in making her own unless she find that they flavoring is way too strong. Then it may be ok.??

    jmho

    :)
     
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  8. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Yeah, it is. Are there various “nic salts” in tobacco? Sure. Trace levels. Also they’re random and there are a bunch of them. These are pure and of only one type. Chewing raw coca leaves is a common practice in several Central American nations and isn’t that different from drinking coffee. Purify those leaves into :censored: though and you have jail time. This is not to say the one is necessarily as dangerous as the other. The problem with nic “salts” is we know basically zero about them. They MAY be ok. They also may not be though.


    Part of the confusion is the word “salt” this was an intentional marketing move by JUUL. Their science stuff still refers to “salts” as protonated nicotine.
    What everyone generally thinks of when they hear “salt” is table salt. NaCl. A salt is technically anything that is an acid and a base mixed together. You can make a salt out of just about any tow chemicals as long as one is an acid and the other is a base. There are even plutonium salts. Very very dangerous btw.
     
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  9. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    Since we're getting technical, I'll clarify that salts are formed by mixing an acid and a base, but mixing an acid and a base doesn't necessarily form a salt. Nonetheless, I acknowledge that your primary point is absolutely correct: 'salts' aren't just table salt and some of them are exceedingly dangerous.

    @Persephone33, it's worth highlighting @bombastinator's point: we really don't know much of anything about nic salts. We don't know very much about freebase nicotine either, but what we do know there seems to indicate that it's not terribly harmful (barring some circulatory disorders). There isn't enough information about nic salts to say the same for them. If you can get by with freebase nicotine, that's definitely your best option. But if it comes down to nic salts vs. cigarettes, I'd opt for the nic salts.

    ETA: I appreciate your thanks, but I assure you that I'm no gentleman. I've got the wrong equipment.;)
     
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  10. GOMuniEsq

    GOMuniEsq Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 25, 2012
    Alberta, Canada
    The term 'nicotine salts' gets a lot of hate from people who think it sounds like a buzzword. Probably because 'salts' has mystique that makes it popular in marketing. I find it hilarious that the term is actually highly accurate and true to the chemistry, it's just that lay-folk are hindered by their own remedial understanding of the word 'salt'.

    You can count on @bombastinator and others to chime in at every opportunity to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt, but as far as the user is concerned regular nic and nic salts are about the same. They have the same viscosity and are used in the same amounts. You can sub one for the other in recipes. Nic salts just have a much milder flavor which is important for high-strength liquids beyond 24mg or so.

    The practical upshot is that when you need to buy juice, low-strength liquids aimed at the sub-ohm market usually have regular nic, and high-strength liquids aimed at the pod market have nic salts, and it doesn't really matter which one you end up with as long as you buy the right strength for your application.
     
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  11. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    If I may interject an opinion,

    Don't worry or be concerned with the nic salts/protonated nic versus free base nic thing at all.

    Nic salt / protonated nicotine is smoother, less harsh, decreases throat hit, which makes vaping higher nic mg/ml liquids possible without the harshness / throat hit sometimes peppery taste in comparison to free base nic of an equal mg/ml.
    In equal nic mg/ml there really is no difference in 'potency' / effect on your body/system.

    Just find a nic mg/ml level that suits your individual preference best.

    The Vuse solo is an underpowered inefficient poor representation of what vaping can be. When getting away from this type of setup going to a more 'advanced' setup there will be a slight learning curve and will take some experimentation on your part.
    It does for everyone.

    Using a regulated power device/'mod' like your Aspire nx75 and a decent delivery device/'tank' there are so many options in power output, settings, airflow, vapor temperature (cool warm hot) various delivery devices/tanks (Dtl/Mtl) etc,,, and most importantly all are dozens of steps above the vuse solo in efficiently vaporizing and delivering the nicotine in the liquid to your body/system.
    Meaning more than likely you will need no where near the nic mg/ml your vuse had when using a much better setup.

    The tobacco super tank even using the .5Ω head is more designed for a Dtl inhale, using a Mtl inhale will cause harsh, hot maybe dryish hits.
    Not unusual for folks to buy & try a tank designed for Mtl even when their 'kit' comes with a tank designed for Dtl.
    It is all a matter of personal preferences.
     
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  12. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Bite me. You wanna call me out? How ‘bout I call you out in return?
    You can be counted on to push the vladdin RE and nic salts at every opportunity even when they’re a poor choice, and you get mad when I or anyone else says you’re wrong. You especially didn’t like that I pointed out I had a vladdin that had an automatic switch that flat out failed because it got filled with liquid. You push the products you push and you don’t seem to care about either the end results or the means vey much.
    Many of your cointerclaims make no sense at all. That one about coconuts was particularly incomprehensible for instance. When stopped by facts you seem to rely on supposition and undercutting. I’m sorry you don’t like that I’m Leary of nic salts. I actually do hope nic salts turn out to be harmless. They have significant advantages. I’m not sorry about the vladdin thing though. It had problems. Not insurmountable problems but problems. You seem to want to declare some kind of war over this. I’m only interested in telling the truth. No one is paying me anything.
     
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  13. GOMuniEsq

    GOMuniEsq Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 25, 2012
    Alberta, Canada
    @bombastinator Yes, I did call you out because I sincerely believe that spreading unsubstantiated doubts is the greater evil. That your vocal insistence on the matter represents the same sort of thinking that society is using to restrict and ban vaping in many places. I see it as counterproductive to the cause so I oppose it when I see it.

    I am not seeking a hostile relationship with you. You're a prolific goodposter who writes intelligently and in earnest, worthy of much respect. I believe it's feasible to have opposing views without being at war. I won't address each of your barbs except to mention that I am a fan of deadpan humor and light trolling, and that some of my jokes fall flat.

    We are both fans of forthright expression, feelings be damned, so it's no surprise that we butt heads occasionally.

    The way I see it, the truth is not absolute. Perception is reality. The key is to shape perception to make our truths a reality, and the best way to accomplish that is a united front.
     
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  14. bombastinator

    bombastinator Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    the lack of substantiation is the entire problem. People have been doing publicly available research on unprotonated nic since the 60’s. We have a pretty good idea on what it is and how it works. There is one (1) company that has data on the questions about protonated nic and they’re releasing absolutely none of it. If they even bothered to do any. There was a very small bit released only because there was a class action lawsuit, and that data was somewhat disturbing. It implies the possibility of really hefty enhanced addiction issues. “Implied” and “possible” are not definites. For one thing JUUL won that lawsuit. I have yet to find out on what basis they won it though. Was it no merit? Or was it a legal technicality that sunk the suit but also produced no finding of fact? I just don’t know.
    It becomes a question of where your personal limit is for acceptable info is. Mine is lower than some, but it’s not zero, and info on protonated nic still stands literally at zero. We know near nothing about the stuff, and what very very little is known isn’t very good.
    That not enough is known about it? I suppose there is a point there. I don’t think a binary response is necessary or good though. I have looked at a lot of the information produced and a lot of the stuff being bandied about IS FUD. Popcorn Lung in particular has absolutely no basis in fact. It is purest marketing BS. There are also a lot of very very questionable studies out there.
    My view is that each thing has to the looked at individually and either accepted or rejected. You can’t treat it all as a single bundle, because to make a bundle of truth false you have to add only one false thing and to make a bundle of falsehood true you need to add only one true thing. I believe the bundles should be separated out and the truth and falsehood put where they belong.
    The problem with “salts” is JUUL introduced a certain amount of falsehood into the mix from the start with its marketing department. “Nic salt” is not a thing. It is a marketing invention. It was shown from the data wrested from JUUL during the lawsuit that JUUL’s own people didn’t even use the term, instead referring to protonated nicotine.
    This does NOT mean that salts are automatically dangerous. It means that people are very carefully choosing not to look, and that bothers me.
    depends on the cause in question. My cause is to keep smokers from dying. It dovetails with that cause very well IMHO
    I accord you the same. I also empathize with the last one as well. I also have this issue.
    true.
    I disagree there. Perception is perception, and reality is reality. I strive to perceive reality. As a result the news is not always good.
     
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  15. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    Thanks for all of your advice & suggestions. I’ll def follow that link. Btw-thanks for hippin me up to Heather’s Heavenly Vapes! I pretty much threw $17 bucks in the garbage only 30min before we chatted & I immediately ordered two bottles of 24mg & 18mgnic level yummy ejuice ;) from HHV. Before that, I used this 40% off discount code to purchase two 30ml bottles of ejuice that will be a wimpy 6mg nic level. (Maybe I can sell it???) I’m never doing that again!! I was thinking that I could buy some high level salt nic & just add it to the 6mg stuff, but I’ve since discovered that things aren’t that easy. So, hope you have a fun weekend & I appreciate ya! Vape
     
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  16. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    So I feel like a big dummy. Ok, not a gentlemen...but rather a very cool chic ^_^
    I also appreciate the real talk about nic salts. Sometimes it’s nice for someone to have your back when it comes to potentially dangerous chemicals. Everyone has been very kind & has refrained from treating me like an idiot because I am new to all of the science behind vaping. I appreciate that more than some of you probably think. Really though, it seems as if the only way to gain knowledge about vaping is by grabbing it here & there. And sometimes I even get contradictory info. I thought I knew what kind of coils to get (.2 rather than .5) because I like a low wattage(25-35) cool vape. I don’t care as much about super giant plumes of clouds as I do a sufficient throat hit w/o a sore throat. I know that the ohm number can make a difference in in the type of vape experience I have also considering my preferred settings as a variable as well. Whew!!!....yea. :vapor:
     
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  17. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    Hi...um, I just want to apologize that it appears that the thread I started about needing info on salt has caused some bad vibes between some members. I hope everything ends up A-OK..... Vape Luv!
     
  18. ChelsB

    ChelsB Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 12, 2016
    California
    What’s the code for 40% off?
     
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  19. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    @Topwater Elvis You are so right!! And on the subject of MTL/DTL...can you believe I do both?! I know, I hear that most do one or the other. I do whatever I’m in the mood for actually & especially if the fruity flavor gets overwhelming-then I’ll go to DTL. Don’t get me wrong, I love the clean tasting REFRESHING fruit flavors, but not the candy based stuff, or cereals, or deserts. I just can’t see myself smoking(Oops! Bad habit, I mean vaping of course) some tirimisu flavor or chocolate icecream even though those are 2 foods I am addicted to. However I think that the coffee type of vape I ordered might be awesome. Plus I need to just get some more tobacco flavored stuff. If you like vaping good quality tobacco on occasion, I highly recommend
    Burley Tobacco Blend E-Juice - Forte | Black Note. I paid $23 for 30ml but I swear it was worth every penny. Ok, now I’m totally off topic, but eh... I like chatting with you. Here’s a random challenge question for ya, lol. Will just any sum ohm tank “fit” & work w/my Aspire NX75? I’m asking because I kinda wanna buy a cheap tank for tobacco flavors only & keep using my Supertank for tasty flavors & whatever. I just find it weird that I haven’t seen anything about compatible tanks/mods. Eventually I want one that holds more than 5ml. But it’ll be a while on that as I just got sacked at my job. I binge watched 80s slasher flicks yesterday til I passed out around 3am. I swear I filled my tank AT LEAST 8 times. I think part of that is the extremely low nic level (6mg), but damn! That’s a lot. So I’m slightly sad that I have these delicious new coffee beans that I’m about to grind & try out BUT I hate to say this but I sorta miss my Vuse because as good as this fruit blend I have is...it’s just a no-go w/my coffee. You know how it goes. Coffee & cigs man....:smokie:, my favorite things- but haven’t had a real cig in my mouth in at least 3 years. So my Vuse & coffee worked out great together (especially if it was a cartridge on the fresh side). I’m out of that delicious nectar from Black Note that I told ya about. There’s a tobacco outlet like 11mi away....certainly not a vape shop but they have some little bottles of high nic tobacco flavor ejuice. I think I’m gonna go. It’ll probably be 2 wks b4 I get my order from HHV. Yup, I’m getting whiny so I’ll shut up now, lol.
    Have a great Saturday! Talk soon/answer all of my questions when you get bored...if ya want :thumb:, Vape on!!
     
  20. Persephone33

    Persephone33 Full Member

    Jun 8, 2019
    Louisville, KY
    I should’ve included that, my bad. It was the first time I visited The SMOK TFV12 Prince Sub-Ohm Tank - Auto Pink (or perhaps after I signed up)....they gave me a wheel to spin w/tons of options & I was pretty shocked that I actually won a pretty decent one. I really think that the deal was that I was looking around & the “become a member today & get a chance to win savings to use today”...something like that. If you have time-check it out. I’ll tell you-none of their juice goes above 6mg.
    I hope it works out for you!
     

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