Proposition: Handling Safety Concerns (without additional safety-based bans)

[Markgm]

Hi,
In response to various states calling for various bans, I have an idea as to how to handle the safety concern.

First off, I think that there are poisonings occurring. This will happen with children getting into eliquid bottles, or with negligence or incompetence handling eliquid, such that it spills on the skin (in significant quantity).

OK, so what does happen, normally, when there is a concern like this? Two things come to mind.
1) Warning labels
2) Child-proof safety caps

There are harmful chemicals in the house, and pharmaceuticals in the medicine cabinet.

While this may sound like more than what folks here might want to deal with, please consider... This could put the public's mind in a better mindset, and maybe better protected from off-balance fear-mongering. It reminds us of (common) medicine bottles.

What do you think?

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

I just looked at my juice bottles from 5 suppliers:

4 out of 5 have child proof caps on them. All 5 have warning labels.

 

[Markgm]

I just looked at my juice bottles from 5 suppliers:

4 out of 5 have child proof caps on them. All 5 have warning labels.

That's awesome.

 

[AndriaD]

The real problem in the "for the chiiiiildren" concerns is THE PARENTS. If they're stupid enough to leave a dangerous chemical where a child can easily get into it, they really don't deserve children, but they're causing a problem for vapers in general. I don't think there is a cure for stupidity, too many people seem to need it, so childproof caps are about the only way to address it. They're not foolproof, I'm sure there are talented kids who can operate them, but the same applies to drugs too, both prescription and OTC.

As for the "danger" of spilling it on yourself... it would need to be pretty high concentration, probably at least 36mg and up, to present any real danger, and even 36mg, if you washed it off right away, probably isn't that dangerous. The actual danger would be from those who use very high concentrations, like 100mg, for DIY ejuice making, but if they're advanced enough for that, they're probably smart enough to wear protective gear. If they're not, well... survival of the fittest and all that.

Andria

 

[Robmidi]

Bingo!

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

That's awesome.

It's also been pretty standard for some time now. Even without FDA requirements.

 

[catlady60]

What about allergen warnings, especially when it comes to PG? Many people are allergic to it and should know.

 

[Stosh]

I would like to see it offered as an option, the same as my prescription medicines (some quite hazardous). Anyone that has access or is ever near my eliquid or meds is lucky when on a good day, we can remember back as far as being 18 years old.....

 

[AndriaD]

What about allergen warnings, especially when it comes to PG? Many people are allergic to it and should know.

I think there should be a lot more info available on the potential side-effects of PG, especially in high doses, and/or long periods of time. It can do a lot more than just present allergen problems -- my swollen feet/ankles are an excellent case in point. I posted a thread asking about the swollen feet/ankles thing, and all anyone seemed capable of saying was "see your doctor." Well, BS on that; not all of us have the resources to be running to the doctor for every little thing, and even if I went, what would he do? He'd probably say "you're dehydrated -- drink more water." And charge me $75 for that little nugget of wisdom. Yeah swollen feet/ankles COULD be a sign of something more serious, but I saw the doc in January, and had ZERO health issues except my [chronic] asthma, so why would merely switching from cigarettes to vaping cause me to have some new and different health issue that could cause swollen feet/ankles?

As for other potential allergens, there should definitely be warnings -- if an ejuice has ANY TRACE of ANY nuts, coconut, or anything else that is commonly allergenic for some segment of the population.

Andria

 

[Markgm]

The real problem in the "for the chiiiiildren" concerns is THE PARENTS. If they're stupid enough to leave a dangerous chemical where a child can easily get into it, they really don't deserve children, but they're causing a problem for vapers in general. I don't think there is a cure for stupidity, too many people seem to need it, so childproof caps are about the only way to address it. They're not foolproof, I'm sure there are talented kids who can operate them, but the same applies to drugs too, both prescription and OTC.
...

Well, that's exactly it. Vaping went a billion dollars last year, so the cat is out of the bag. There will be many casual vapers - there will be many more, and the statistics will go their own way. I try not to take it personally, but these are good things to compare to - prescription med overdoses are ten times greater than anything on the black market, for example.

Have you noticed how the folks in the UK are promoting eCigs, while in America, there is a fear-mongering campaign? Crap, the USA is worse for its corporate effects on food, air, water, you name it, when you look. Now, the states are battling eCigs and electric cars, for fear of losing tax revenues. In some ways, the US is the most problematic society in the industrialized world. We're at war with Mammon (the biblical god of money). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-64ce_bqE&t=4045

 

[LDS714]

First off, I think that there are poisonings occurring.

How about having that one declared a 'non-issue' until it gets up to 10% of the poisonings from toothpaste?

 

[Markgm]

How about having that one declared a 'non-issue' until it gets up to 10% of the poisonings from toothpaste?

Thanks for the excellent point. Bear in mind, every tube of fluoride toothpaste says right on the back... "If swallowed, contact your local poison control center immediately". Alas, no child-proof cap there. LOL

 

[Markgm]

It's also been pretty standard for some time now. Even without FDA requirements.

I got some eLiquid from a (Chinese) company that doesn't do that. I'm not saying I'll continue to do that. I'm just getting my feet wet.

 

[sonicdsl]

Any vendor that isn't by now putting warnings on their labels and doesn't at least offer child-resistant caps is being irresponsible, IMO.

 

[AndriaD]

Now, the states are battling eCigs and electric cars, for fear of losing tax revenues. In some ways, the US is the most problematic society in the industrialized world. We're at war with Mammon (the biblical god of money). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-64ce_bqE&t=4045

That's kinda funny, actually... in GA, apparently our Senator Isakson is firmly on the side of vaping/harm reduction, and GA gives a HUMONGOUS tax credit ($5000 I think) to those with electric cars! Our gov is on TV constantly with his "GA's first for business" message, for all the tax credits for those opening new businesses in GA. And here I always thought of my home state as kinda backward; times surely are changing.

But please don't move here, unless you're aiming at one of the small towns. Metro Atlanta is is too large (7 counties, or has it already swelled to 9?) and overpopulated already!

Andria

 

[Markgm]

Any vendor that isn't by now putting warnings on their labels and doesn't at least offer child-resistant caps is being irresponsible, IMO.

Well, maybe this would be a good way to frame the topic and put people's minds in the right place.

 

[Steamix]

Childproof caps, warning labels. Reputable vendors have these already.
DIY folk like me take great care that our goodies are stashed in a safe place and out of harms way.

Under the kitchen sink, lots of stuff with misleading pics of juicy lemons and at least as dangerous as e-juices to a toddler on the prowl.

And every third post in sub-ohming threads here is about safety, safety and more safety.

Can't prevent people from going all-out in becoming the next jack... -of-the-month or even a candidate for this year's Darwin Award,
but I've managed to survive a fair number of years by applying plain ole common sense to potentially hazardous activities.

So please spare me the we're-oh-so-concerned about your well-being being uttered by the same people who stand idly by when another tenthousand jobs get axed...

You wanna screw around ? Be straight about it like the Italian gubmint. At leaast they had the guts to admit frankly that e-cigs were cutting into revenues from tabacco taxation and slapped a hefty tax on all things vaping.

I'm not getting younger and my patience with hypocrites is wearing thinner...

Rant over

 

[AndriaD]

I got some eLiquid from a (Chinese) company that doesn't do that. I'm not saying I'll continue to do that. I'm just getting my feet wet.

The ejuice I get from MyFreedomSmokes (about 90% of all I vape) doesn't have childproof caps, which I appreciate tremendously -- no kids in this house, and never will be; childproof just means "hard as hell to open and a huge PITA."

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Childproof caps, warning labels. Reputable vendors have these already.
DIY folk like me take great care that our goodies are stashed in a safe place and out of harms way.

Under the kitchen sink, lots of stuff with misleading pics of juicy lemons and at least as dangerous as e-juices to a toddler on the prowl.

And every third post in sub-ohming threads here is about safety, safety and more safety.

Can't prevent people from going all-out in becoming the next jack... -of-the-month or even a candidate for this year's Darwin Award,
but I've managed to survive a fair number of years by applying plain ole common sense to potentially hazardous activities.

So please spare me the we're-oh-so-concerned about your well-being being uttered by the same people who stand idly by when another tenthousand jobs get axed...

You wanna screw around ? Be straight about it like the Italian gubmint. At leaast they had the guts to admit frankly that e-cigs were cutting into revenues from tabacco taxation and slapped a hefty tax on all things vaping.

I'm not getting younger and my patience with hypocrites is wearing thinner...

Rant over

I wish there was a "love" button for this post! +1,000,000!!!

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

Hi,
In response to various states calling for various bans, I have an idea as to how to handle the safety concern.

First off, I think that there are poisonings occurring. This will happen with children getting into eLiquid bottles, or with negligence or incompetence handling eLiquid, such that it spills on the skin (in significant quantity).

OK, so what does happen, normally, when there is a concern like this? Two things come to mind.
1) Warning labels
2) Child-proof safety caps

There are harmful chemicals in the house, and pharmaceuticals in the medicine cabinet.

While this may sound like more than what folks here might want to deal with, please consider... This could put the public's mind in a better mindset, and maybe better protected from off-balance fear-mongering. It reminds us of (common) medicine bottles.

What do you think?

I have been Involved with an OEM who makes Plastic Containers. And have seen first hand Much of what goes on with regards to Warning Labels and Child-Resistant Caps. (There is No Such thing as a Child-Proof Cap. And the Industry NEVER Uses that Term for Legal Reasons)

95% of the Reason Warning Labels or Child-Resistant Caps are on a Product Container when there is No Regulatory Mandate is to Limit Liability in a Lawsuit. And has Nothing to do with Safety.

It would be Nice to Think that it is About Safety. But It Isn't. Because anyone in the Field will tell you that if a Child is Given Enough Time, they Can/Will open the Container.

Specs for Child-Resistant Cap are Written to say things like... "If 70% of Children 4 ~ 8 Years can Not Open the Container within 6 Minutes, the Cap is Deemed to be Child-Resistant."

Of Course, it is OK if <30% of the Children can Open it in Under 6 Minutes and then Swallow your Meds. Or if 100% of the Children Can Open it in 6 Minutes 10 Seconds. That's OK

And that is Why they are Called Child-Resistant and NOT Child-Proof.