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Rayon Wick - Better Flow, Flavor, Longevity, and Nic Hit!! - Pt.2

Discussion in 'Wick and Wire' started by JeremyR, Oct 14, 2015.

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  1. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    This is a continuation of the ground breaking Rayon Wick - better flow, flavor, saturation, and nic hit!! thread.


    The Rayon revolution started here on ecf when I introduced its amazing properties and those first few users returned thier reviews. A lot of effort, by myself and many other members, was put in to educate the community about using Rayon as wick.. It was a place of insightful discussion, debate, joy, and excitement as Rayon became more and more popular.

    The original thread located - here - is full of information, pictures, tips, how to's, and 100s of raving reviews... There was a lot of good times and stories to be told.

    I couldn't begin to compile the vast amount of great posts made by other members... But the thread is archived on ecf so it will be viewable for many years to come. Please search the original thread for ideas and useful information; as about everything has been covered to some extent.

    The goal is to allow the opportunity for each person to try rayon wicking without fear. So they can decide for themselves if its the game changer we all know it was for us.

    Please ask any questions and we will do our best to answer or help.


    So this is where your wondering: what is rayon going to do for me?

    Rayon Wick

    - wicks better
    - lasts 10 times longer
    - delivers increased coil saturation
    - has a pure neutral taste
    - its good till the last drop

    - its sturdy, holds its shape, and stays put.
    - much more forgiving on density.
    - it releases juice freely to the coil
    - capable of higher power than other wicks
    - typically needs a bump in your normal power level to compensate for the saturation. A 3-5w bump.

    - instant action
    - very 'moldable' to fit specific needs.
    - increases nicotine hit
    - its extremely efficient (thin the tails)
    - the vapor produced is a more vaporized mist that provides higher absorption of nicotine and flavoring components. (Its estimated that a 20-30% increase occurs)

    - its high efficiency provides Ultra Clean vaporization for minimal if any gunking after 100s of mls (juice dependant)
    - highly resistant to burning when it has juice within reach
    - Rayon can speak to you, by showing any problems with discoloration.

    - rayon wick can last a long, long time
    - your coils can remain clean 4 - 10 times longer than other wicks. Eliminating the need for dry burning.

    - you can run the entire wick completely dry with rayon - before you even get a dry hit (when wicked correctly)
    - low maintenance
    - more freedom to just : vape on
    - makes vaping more enjoyable by an elimination of many common problems
    - With regular mods we have gone 100, 200, and nearly 300ml of juice on rayon with no maintenance!

    Is it safe?

    - safer than cotton
    - evidence shows vaping is safer with rayon

    OK let's talk about the safety question, as ridiculous as it is.. The fact is there was a vast amount of misconception as to what Rayon even is. Misinformation about Rayon, or cellucotton rayon, was quickly spread through the community and trickled down from the top as well.

    So what is it?

    Rayon Wick is pure cellulose, more pure than can be found in nature. Cellulose is the building block of plants throughout the world. You eat cellulose daily. Rayon has been around for 150 years. It has been highly studied.

    No one has been able to produce any scientific evidence or proof that there is anything, whatsoever, of concern in Rayon fiber.

    Its used by surgens, labs for testing biological samples because its purity doesn't contaminate the samples like cotton. Cellulose made by an identical viscose method is also used in Food products like sausage casings. Cellucotton / rayon has been used internally for many years thanks to Kimberly Clark. Rayon was used by doctors heavily in WW1. In all this time if there was something wrong with it we would know.

    Rayon from many different manufactures has been tested by oeko-tex, world leading textile safety tester, and it has been certified free from any harmful contaminates and even those that could be potentially harmful. The FTC defines rayon as pure cellulose.

    Rayon -


    Rayon Wick is safer than tap water. Water has vast magnitudes of more chemicals and contaminates in it than a piece of rayon wick.

    Rayon is basically the same as cigarette paper when it burns.. My wicking is unburnt after 300ml at high power so its not even a concern of burning.

    Cotton is not a pure cellulose its also the most chemically treated crop in the world. It contains protien components that make it taste bad and reduce wicking. However you can make rayon from cotton plants... and if you did; all the pesticides and protiens would be chemically seperated and the final product would be pure cellulose.

    Why is it safer to vape with than cotton?

    The proof is in the gunk. When juice overheats it gunks. Overheating juice has byproducts that could be unhealthy.

    Rayon and the way it works produces very little if any gunk. A fraction of that wich builds up with cotton.

    That means your coil stays saturated enough through out the vape that it doesn't overheat to the point of burning the juice.

    It is a wick that controls coil temperature in normal use by freely juicing the coil. Cotton absorbs and holds back juice from the coil rayon delivers freely at breakneck speed.


    Rayon Wick is a cellulose extracted by scientific method from plant material, trees mostly, and regenerated into pure cellulose fibers. Many things in life are chemically extracted. The components used to extract and reassemble the pure cellulose are not in the final fiber. The beauty of chemistry is knowing exactly how things are going to happen. Its no question, its scientific fact. As much as the earth is round.

    I have reviewed possibly hundreds of scientific documents and books, and I have found no cause for concern. Please post your questions or comments here or search the original thread, there are many links to scientific literature and chemistry books on the subject.


    Using Rayon Wick

    - Use more in the coil than you even think is possible to be able to work.

    - Use less in The tails than you even think is possible to be able to work.

    Rayon wick works much different than cotton. In many ways its opposite. Anything you know about wicking with cotton should be pushed aside. This is like learning a completely new wick, or like when you learned cotton the first time.. Some are lucky and get the density right away, many others will not! Its seems the less experience or luck you have had with cotton the faster you pick it up..

    So you've been vaping for years and consider yourself an expert... You have to be able to be humble and accept the fact that you don't know it all.. as your starting over again, but the benefits are much greater this time.

    So how dense does it need to be?

    - fairly snug to where you can hardly pull it through anymore without finagling. The coil should be pulling its so snug.

    - there is a distinct squeak type vibration that can be felt and heard while pulling the fiber through the coil when its getting tight enough. I usually shift it side to side to hear the squeak

    - it will look huge at first, but after it settles it should have shoulders just at or above the OD of the coil.

    - being able to run the rayon wick dry without tc is a sign your density is good.

    - using too much causes muted flavor and excess gunking, but amazingly vapes when super tight without burning the fiber like cotton.

    - there is a sweet spot where the flavor pops on the first vape perfectly. Thus is harder to achieve, its recommended to have a slight break-in of muted vapes to ensure you are dense enough.

    - its better to be too tight, than too loose. The longer the break-in period the more over density you've gone. Use a little less next time.

    You need a much tighter density than cotton. More than you think is even possible. Cotton expands but rayon fiber reduces. The reason is because its not a sponge like cotton its an extremely efficient transporter of juice. The juice clings to the outside of the rayon fibers and flows like water through a pipe. Its very fluffy to start and as its wetted down and used the fibers start to align and all the air pockets are expelled. After about 4ml any reducing should be done. Any dry hit from the start through the first day of use indicates a loose wick. You need to use more rayon wick.

    In starting to use rayon wicking it should take less than 6 attempts to get it right if you follow a trial and error method. During this time it is recommended to vape at the lower end of power for you. Because you may have the wick become loose in the coil and this will cause the coil to start to dry burn and produce a nasty dry hit from the coil. This taste is not the rayon it is the dry burning coil. Rayon tastes like cigarette paper when it burns.

    At anytime if you have a problem ALWAYS inspect the wick.

    check for full contact at the top edge of the coil
    - push on Wick to see if it exposes a gap at the edge of the coil
    - check coloring of both sides of Wick, color will show problems.
    - one darkened tail shows an imbalance in the wick. Even the system by trimming.
    - two dark Tails means the Tails are too thick
    - don't blame Rayon for user error

    On to the Tails -

    - thin the Tails
    - the tail begins where the wick bends.
    - A full density wick should only extend to the edge of the deck or chamber wall. The rest is tail and should be clipped down. Some have said it looks similar to a mullet.
    - Balance - you need the wick on both sides to be as even as reasonably possible.... Or one side will draw liquid to it and.. out of the coil after firing causing discoloration on one side.

    Another complex thing to understand is how this stuff seems to work. Its actions are nothing like cotton. In most attys where you would have a tail going down or to the side you need to thin the Tails substantially from 50 to 90+% of the thicknes - cut right before the bend..

    This goes against everything you know.. But do it!


    In most cases, when the wick is long enough, it won't work right if you don't thin!

    The part with the most rayon fiber will draw the most liquid. Tails are also free to expand and open up drawing more juice between the fibers. It will actually reduce the wick speed substantially if you don't thin Tails that are long enough.. If the tails are on a deck they will swell like a billow and draw juice to them and away from the coil.

    Full tails, or an imbalance, will cause draw back from the coil after the hit. Drawing already heated juice back and then forth in an ebb and flow movement before and after the vape.. This will refire the juice again and again causing caramelization, more gunking, and darkening than a proper Rayon Wick.

    Think of the rayon in the coil and main section as the heart of the system. Or like the trunk of a tree. Both of these things have a large central core. But the viens and roots that feed the core of the system are very much smaller than the heart itself.... The tree example fits best, your full wick in the coil is the tree trunk and the Tails are the roots. The big tree trunk doesn't do the work, small roots a fraction of its size sustain its life. Literally just a couple of rayon roots can supply ample juice to the coil, many of us use paper thin Tails on rda decks.

    Rayon has an innate ability it seems to keep its fibers evenly wet and protect itself from burning. But you don't want the Rayon wicking to keep an even saturation through to the Tails. You want to force it to heep the coil area the most saturated. This is done by trimming the tail density down considerably.

    Heres a recent build in a FEV v3 , in dripper mode or tank mode. no problem at 40w dripping. The deck will go dry before the coil does.

    Step by step
    Cellucotton rayon

    DM elbin viskose balls-

    How the vapor differs
    Here's a shot firing a coil with Rayon. Look at the unique firework type streamers that fly off the coil as it explodes vapor with superior saturation.

    • Like Like x 44
  2. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    Trouble shooting and tips-

    Build pics-



    Dual 28g titanium, think it was .34 ohm


    Another technique is the double insertion method that @Aal_ uses. It makes it easier to get plenty of density and especially helpful with flimsy wires like nickle.

    Double insertion method.-


    Not this!

    You don't want it to look like this after a tank, you'll have coil dry hits. The wick needs to be in full contact with the coil after its settles and comes together.



    So you got a dry hit for whatever reason, ran tank dry, ect... Now you have a burnt taste and would proceed to rewick. But with rayon 99% of the time it is only the coil that's burnt.

    How can the coil be burnt?

    Usually cotton will burn before the coil. Rayon will Wick to the coil till the last second then its holds just enough to protect the fiber from burning as long as possible. This allows the juice on the coil to overheat causing a burnt taste and burnt juice on the coil.

    But don't worry, the Rayon is still usable for possibly 100s of mls. You don't need to rewick.

    This is the only maintenance I do with a Rayon Wick. When I screw up and run it dry have some issue, or even a poor wicking job can be extended before you have to rewick.

    Get a napkin or whatever, roll the corner to a flat or pointed shape. Drip on the coil. Swipe the paper towel over the circumference of the coil lightly. You will see burnt juice absorbed off the coil to the napkin.


    Redrip and then its ready to go, flavor is clear if not right away, in a few vapes.

    The wick will keep going and going..


    I did a test, fired the coil at high voltage with a drying wick till it glowed and lit the little bit of remaining juice on fire. The wick was still in one piece afterwards. Try that with cotton.

    • Like Like x 19
  3. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    7.5v to 32g wire vaped for well over 100ml.
    This pic also shows minimum density, it could have been a little more.


    Longevity reports - 100, 200, & 300ml

    All these figures have been reached without temp control

    Link to search results

    100ml -[user][0]=113723&c[thread]=561226

    200ml -[user][0]=113723&c[thread]=561226

    300ml -[user][0]=113723&c[thread]=561226


    This is the real amount of carbon I had on my coil after 274ml. No gunking!

    Hangsen arabic tobacco at 3.3% the remainder straight vg 9mg nic... Single 28g at 35- 40w straight power in a FEV. As soon as it got hot enough the carbon layer lit like a fuse and burned itself without additional power.


    Good till the last drop!
    (Coined by @Tbev )

    Example of running Rayon Wick dry at 40w. NO temperature control other than the rayon.

    Its amazing how dry the wick will get before you even start to notice. It gets dry like new at the edges but its still vaping.

    Just this little amount of strands touching the deck were able to support 35-40w drilping and dry the deck.

    • Like Like x 20
  4. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    28g ss340, 3mm, .81 ohms, evic vt in ti mode offset to 300- 340°f in to mode


    More links on safety of rayon -

    Some concern of dioxin has been raise based on rumors concerning another product.. The fda has cleared this, Levels of dioxin in rayon they tested were at or below the detectable limit of .1-1 part per Trillion.

    More on scentific, and chemical process to create rayon

    Rayon post production-

    Search result for molecule-[user][0]=113723&c[thread]=561226

    Others -

    Many more in the original thread.



    Lots of trimming to remove material here's midway on a clt 32g.



    Look how dry it vapes to. See dry fibers on the deck without tc.


    • Like Like x 16
  5. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    My Videos -

    Most were uploaded off an iPhone 3, no sound just hands on... They are not great but you can see how its done. No video equipment, just whatever I could find to prop my phone.

    My YouTube channel -

    Wicking a FEV

    Listen for the squeak when installing the wick in this video you can hear it loudly.


    History and experience with Rayon early on.

    Marking some of my early posts about rayon wick on ecf.

    Initial early discussion about rayon here -

    Wick materials safe vs dangerous. Post 4752

    The op of this thread is some of my first builds with rayon.
    Vcore thread-

    mentioned in the micro coil thread. -

    mentioned in Dragon coil thread.
    • Like Like x 12
  6. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    Where can i get Rayon?

    There is a number of off beat sources we have found to obtain the fiber.

    At first it was pharmaceutical bottles. Then we found Sally's/ graham cellucotton Rayon and medical rayon balls from tidi & delascos. It can also be found in eastern Europe at DM labled elbin viskose, the balls are great. Kotex U is another source if your desperate. Each of these fibers is a different quality grade and coarseness. Thus slightly different densities may be needed.

    I am looking at sourcing the best quality Rayon and making it available so we don't have to hunt it down from various sources. Be on the lookout.

    But still, sallys cellucotton, the most basic rayon fiber is still Rayon, other forms are slightly better but its not a deal breaker. If you can get Sally's - its perfectly fine and good and works as intended. FF massacred it into a tangled mess, and they obviously don't understand the fiber by looking at their tutorial and examples....

    I rate quality of fiber in this order

    1- Pharmaceutical Rayon - the original Rayon Wick and still arguably the best.

    2 - DM/ elbin viskose balls & Tidi large balls

    3- Delascos medium medical balls / KU Rayon

    4- Sallys Graham cellucotton Rayon / FF

    Cellucotton does have a slight edge in ease of use.
    • Like Like x 15
  7. frashoola

    frashoola Senior Member Verified Member

    May 9, 2014
    Scranton, PA
    Looks like I picked a good time to go on ECF :)
    • Like Like x 4
  8. f1vefour

    f1vefour Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2013
    Thanks Jeremy, looking forward to part 2

    • Like Like x 4
  9. thayamax

    thayamax PIF MODERATOR Extraordinaire Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 7, 2013
    Detroit, MI
    This looks like a nice place. Thanks, @JeremyR , for all your hard work getting us all moved in.
    • Like Like x 8
  10. TrollDragon

    TrollDragon Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2014
    NS, Canada
    Many props for all the hard work @JeremyR, it's going to be an Excellent thread!
    • Like Like x 4
  11. Nick N

    Nick N Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2014
    Columbus, Ohio
    Another Rayonati checking in, I plan to post a build here on the Subtank Mini with the v2 RBA using the pancake wick method using rayon of course. A lot of people seem to think that because of the giant holes in the sleeve it will flood using this method, but it does not. 25-30 watts seems the sweet spot for this build.
    • Like Like x 5
  12. Mad Scientist

    Mad Scientist Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2013
    Smokestack, PA, USA
    Subscribed. Great opening post!
    • Like Like x 2
  13. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL
    More to come!

    All this was done on a basic smart phone.

    Everything from the first post of the original thread.
    Phones were - iphone3 , iphone 5 , and now Moto G.
    • Like Like x 11
  14. JeremyR

    JeremyR Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 29, 2012
    Oregon, IL

    Start dropping all good build pics, examples, and experience when you get a chance guys & gals!!

    Welcome back to all, and an invitation to everyone!

    Don't be afraid to post or say hi!

    • Like Like x 10
  15. Robert Stevens

    Robert Stevens Full Member

    Aug 28, 2015
    I have used rayon exclusively since discovering it. It really shines on a tc mod I think. The only time I use cotton is when I create a hybrid of the "scottish roll" which involves a rayon core that becomes the juice pipeline that feeds the cotton roll resevoir. Works great in some applications. Most often its just straight rayon though
    • Like Like x 4
  16. cindycated

    cindycated ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 19, 2011
    San Francisco, CA
    [​IMG] Nice digs, Jeremy! Great intro! :thumb:
    • Like Like x 5
  17. atroph

    atroph Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2014
    Chesapeake, VA
    Hello old friends! Glad to see we have a new home!
    ST Mini here:

    Stuffed the coil:


    Trimmed the top and left a little tail:


    Slightly juiced, stuck tails to deck:


    Installed barrel:


    Positioned wick so juice ports have clear flow:


    Been using this wick w/ ni200 wire at around 370 deg 40W pre-heat on the eVIC VT since September 20. Still going strong with about 60+ mL of 20% flavored blueberry custard and/or blueberry cheesecake. I look at the coil and it has a little crusting, but the wick underneath still shows semi-white. Will update with an after-shot once I get the urge to re-wick. I do use 10% DW (20PG Flavoring/10DW/70VG) to thin my juice down a tad and I think that it is doing the trick to keep my wick super saturated during the colder days.
    • Like Like x 8
  18. tw33k

    tw33k Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Great way to start the new thread :thumb:
    • Like Like x 5
  19. f1vefour

    f1vefour Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2013

    Sorry about your freshly broken Tmod tw33k, that's gotta suck.
    • Like Like x 3
  20. BrentMydland

    BrentMydland Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2014
    SE US
    Time to settle in and get comfy. Loving the new thread.
    • Like Like x 3

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