Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

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roosterado

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Your totally open to your own assessment bob and I respect that... Do you know how your nic is made, there are quite a few chemicals involved including kerosene in some processes. Depending on the manufacturer. Then add in possible contaminates.

Really its just cellulose extruded. It's really clean as far as I can tell.

I expected backlash on this.. for many it may be a stop gap or a trial before trying ramie. I can tell you loose rayon works a lot better than hemp and cotton for me.

The nic hit is incredible. For the first time in months I actually put my zmax down for a while because it's kicking like a 24mg.. And it's clearly a nic buzz.
I am planing to try rayon. I agree that well saturated wicks don't burn. My only concern with rayon it this- does soaking it PG/VG dissolve[for lack of a better word] any any of the chemical residues left in a wicking material like rayon that has been manufactured with a chemical process? If it does then those dissolved chemicals would be part of the vapor. I mean we use Organic cotton because it has not been whitened with bleach and grown with pesticides,right?
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JeremyR

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There is no chemical residue on the rayon. It is Not chemically "treated" as Phil said. He got that from the nay Sayers. There is no chemical treatment done to the rayon fiber unless it's made into clothes or dyed.

The cellulose is extracted from the wood by a chemical process. Just like many other things.
 
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JeremyR

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i tried a rayon wick for the first time today. In comparison to cotton I have noticed that, wicking ≈ .4 ohm Tobh using 18650, that the vapor is a little cooler, and strong flavors are less intense (which I like). It definitely wicks better, and I have yet to get a dry tasting hit. Same in my kayfun. I can chain vape without getting the burt taste after a while like I did with cotton. Vapor density and volume seem to on par with cotton. I wicked it so that the rayon is densely packed in the coils. Thanks for the advice!

If flavors are slightly muted your using a little too dense in the coil... there is a sweet spot of not to tight and not too loose. This is when everything really pops and makes you say wow..
 

JeremyR

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Here's a theory type question for you folks. What would work better with Rayon? 28g, 2.3mm (3/32), 6/7 wraps for around 1.2ohm vs 26g, 2.3mm, 9/10 wraps for around 1.2ohm? So, fewer wrap thinner wire vs more wraps thicker wire. Running at around 12W.

I re-coiled 2 of my KFL's tonight with an angled build where I'm running the wick in an S-shape to the deck. It was a little kludgy to set the wicks, but I figured if Busardo can get away with his clunky wicks, then I should be fine for at least the rest of the evening with what I did. :)

Builds seem to be working well, but I was curious if I should build with 26g next.

Thoughts?

Really I don't think it matters.. it's the density in the coil that matters most. And secondly the density left in the area or channel that you feed juice from.

Of it's too tight it works ok but the flavors aren't as good and the coil will gunk. Too tight also adds kind of a dry harshness to the vape even though the rayon wicks enough not to burn
 
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rj134

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Here's a theory type question for you folks. What would work better with Rayon? 28g, 2.3mm (3/32), 6/7 wraps for around 1.2ohm vs 26g, 2.3mm, 9/10 wraps for around 1.2ohm? So, fewer wrap thinner wire vs more wraps thicker wire. Running at around 12W.

I re-coiled 2 of my KFL's tonight with an angled build where I'm running the wick in an S-shape to the deck. It was a little kludgy to set the wicks, but I figured if Busardo can get away with his clunky wicks, then I should be fine for at least the rest of the evening with what I did. :)

Builds seem to be working well, but I was curious if I should build with 26g next.

Thoughts?
FWIW: Whatever resistance I'm shooting for I'll adjust the gauge so that I get the desired ohms around 8 wraps. Works extremely well for me.

More wraps almost always results in too much coil mass i.e. annoyingly long ramp up/down times. Less wraps doesn't give enough surface area, which then leads to subpar flavor & vapor and a wick much more prone to burn due to all the heat being concentrated on such a small area.

Mind you I always build microcoils.
 

JeremyR

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For what its worth, I compared my boiled rayon to the un boiled rayon by feeling them between my fingers. I won't vape un boiled rayon anymore, but thought i'd share that the boiled rayon is much smoother and softer. The fibers slide across each other with little friction. The non boiled rayon has a very gritty feel to it with a lot of friction between fibers. No idea why this is but that's how they compare with regard to feeling and texture.

What you notice may be just the smoothness of the fibers as their basically nano fibers... Or it could be the nontoxic lubricants used in processing fibers into bales. Namely natural fatty acids that are completely safe.

Good notes Moon. Does the fibers move and spread apart in the water during the boiling? Or did you bring the water to a boil; take it off the heat and let the Rayon sit in it undisturbed? Since boiled water reaches 212 degrees, letting it sit for awhile should be sufficient in removing any type of dyes, chemicals, oils (Not that I taste any in Un Boiled Rayon. It tastes perfect straight out of the box, and into the coil.)

Is it easier to wick through the coils? I had to rebuild my first two builds earlier today because I had underestimated the amount to use. Kept getting 'Popping'. When I looked at the coils during the popping, it was obvious I didn't have enough Rayon because I could see a gap between the Coil and Rayon. The Rayon actually shrunk a little. But I used more Rayon on build #3, and the popping went away.

When it soaks in water it expands greatly to about double its size in width. Slowly bringing it to boil would do it.

You can tell if you have the correct density on the first hit.
 
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Blind Owl

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FWIW: Whatever resistance I'm shooting for I'll adjust the gauge so that I get the desired ohms around 8 wraps. Works extremely well for me.

More wraps almost always results in too much coil mass i.e. annoyingly long ramp up/down times. Less wraps doesn't give enough surface area, which then leads to subpar flavor & vapor and a wick much more prone to burn due to all the heat being concentrated on such a small area.

Mind you I always build microcoils.

To some extent @ least, coil mass seems to = thermal mass. I built a 'Clapton' coil (looks like a low-E guitar string) that came out at 1.2 ohms. The extra surface area may improve flavor, but the thing takes forever to warm up & cool down.

Best results I've had so far have been with triple-twisted 32 ga (I've made two so far, 1.6 & 1.8 ohms) which heat up & cool down much faster while providing more surface area than e.g. an 28 ga single coil with the same resistance. Worth trying, if you haven't already. Flavor is awesome with rayon wick.
 

rj134

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To some extent @ least, coil mass seems to = thermal mass. I built a 'Clapton' coil (looks like a low-E guitar string) that came out at 1.2 ohms. The extra surface area may improve flavor, but the thing takes forever to warm up & cool down.

Best results I've had so far have been with triple-twisted 32 ga (I've made two so far, 1.6 & 1.8 ohms) which heat up & cool down much faster while providing more surface area than e.g. an 28 ga single coil with the same resistance. Worth trying, if you haven't already. Flavor is awesome with rayon wick.
Yeah, I made 4 twisted 32g coils, two double, two triple twists on the Kayfun before I ran out of Kanthal. They were good but not enough an improvement to me over 28g to justify the hassle of making them.

Seems like no matter what build I try (and I tried a lot) I keep coming back to that good old 28g 8 wraps 1 ohm setup. Suberb vape, solid wicking, wrapped in 5 minutes, it just works.

Especially the rayon seems to like that coil the best on my Kayfun. No dry hits, flavor is off the charts.
 
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MikeE3

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I had an auto fire issue with a Stingray this past weekend. Tons of condensed juice running down the mod from the vapor leaking from the air hole in the Kayfun, entire mod burning hot. Same results as you. "Burned" juice tasted just fine and the wick wasn't black nor burnt.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

Must be something going around - I just had an auto-fire issue too. The switch screw in my Nemi-Clone loosened up and when I put it down it was firing - unknown to me. When i came back and picked it up - I couldn't touch it, it was so hot.

Let it cool down, took the atty apart (an R91) and looked at the wick. Wick looked fine, like new. Put it back together and started vaping on it. Very little 'vapor' was being produced. The chamber was actually flooded and I had to vape it awhile to burn up the excess juice and then it started working just fine.
 

JeremyR

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Just an aside about cotton and how people think if falls off a plant and into a bag they receive.

---

""So we put cotton next to our skin because it breathes, absorbs and offers comfort. Cotton also has a reputation for being pure, the best fabric for a children wear also.

However, most cotton goods sold today don't deserve that natural reputation. During cotton production and processing, lots of unnatural and highly hazardous chemicals are used.

Cotton is one of the most intensively sprayed field crops in the world - accounting for more than 10 percent of pesticide use and nearly 23 percent of agricultural insecticide sales worldwide. According to a Pesticide Action Network statistic, it takes about one fourth of a pound of chemicals just to make one cotton t-shirt, and two-thirds of a pound to make a pair of jeans.

According to Doug Murray, Ph.D., a professor of sociology at Colorado State University " The most hazardous available pesticides are used on cotton, of the available today," during his study on pesticide use on cotton overseas.""

Organic cotton processing, Organic Cotton Production, Volatile Organic Compound
 

Nick N

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I think I will succumb to the hype this weekend. How much longer until the local B&M start selling it for $8.99 per foot? I get pretty good flavor and vapor out of my Mega tank with 3mm single coil (1.8 ohm) and cotton yarn using a Vamo @ 15 watts. I can't imagine it being any better but for $15 I am willing to try it out.
 

JeremyR

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You can order a 40ft box off amazon for 13.00 shipped. Or 500ft box for 12.00 at Sally's. You can order rayon balls for 200 for 12 at delasco consumer catalog. Also springvalley melatonin 1 mg bottle for 4.00 at walmart. The bottle rayon can be rinsed and dryed if your concerned with pill filler dust. The pill is 99% safe filler less than 1% melatonin contained in the pill.
 
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Moonbogg

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I assume this is the CelluCotton (CCr) that you can get at Sally's?


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

Yes its the stuff everyone is using from sally's. I grabbed a 500ft box on my way home from work. Nice score for $13.00.


Good notes Moon. Does the fibers move and spread apart in the water during the boiling? Or did you bring the water to a boil; take it off the heat and let the Rayon sit in it undisturbed? Since boiled water reaches 212 degrees, letting it sit for awhile should be sufficient in removing any type of dyes, chemicals, oils (Not that I taste any in Un Boiled Rayon. It tastes perfect straight out of the box, and into the coil.)

Is it easier to wick through the coils? I had to rebuild my first two builds earlier today because I had underestimated the amount to use. Kept getting 'Popping'. When I looked at the coils during the popping, it was obvious I didn't have enough Rayon because I could see a gap between the Coil and Rayon. The Rayon actually shrunk a little. But I used more Rayon on build #3, and the popping went away.

I brought the filtered water (from refrigerator water filter) to a boil and just tossed the Rayon in there in a big heap, lol. I let it boil for a long time, maybe 20 minutes. Overkill probably. I removed the Rayon, and keeping it in the same pot (after draining water and gently straining) I stuck it in the oven and baked it dry at 180F. This just helped the drying process along. Rayon fibers weaken at over 300F from what I read, so 180 is fine.
Anyway, I baked it for only about 45 minutes and turned oven off and let it sit there for a day and dry out. The Rayon was a tangled mess from the boiling and I used a little piece, but just threw it away and tried again with less rayon. Tangling was way less and much better, but still not perfect.

I'll do it again, but this time i'll use some Kanthal and wrap little loops around the rayon every 3" or so. This should keep it all together nice and neat like a pony tail. I expect this to work really damn good, but the length of the pony tail still needs to be kept reasonably short or else tangling can still be expected. It needs to sit in the pot as a single line of rayon. It can't be overlapping itself or else the fibers will mix and get all tangled to hell.

The boiled and dried rayon is nice and soft and silky. Also, it ends up being more condensed and not so frizzy. Nice to work with IMO after boiling. Its easier to get a good dense portion through the coil.

Also, I don't know if its safe boiled or non boiled, and to be honest, I would not use the lack of taste as an indicator of safety. Many things are toxic and have no taste at all. That being said, I am comfortable enough to use it after boiling and it works great, as you know.

Side note: After inserting wick, I soaked the wick on one side of the coil and wanted to see if it would wick through the coil and make it to the other side. It didn't. I thought I had too much, creating a choke point in the coil. But I soaked the whole thing and started using it. Sure enough it wicks fine. I think this indicated clearly that wicking materials wick much better when already wet. Those are my thoughts at least and I think it would be interesting to do a Pbusardo-style wicking test with the wicks already wet.
 
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Dusty_D

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I know, I am going to Sally's to get it, if my Wife went for me it would be a $75 purchase. [emoji30]

I took my wife with me. She was so confused and bedazzled by all the products there that she didn't pick up anything.. ;)

I'm sure she'll go back there someday and spend half a day in there.
 

HolmanGT

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I took my wife with me. She was so confused and bedazzled by all the products there that she didn't pick up anything.. ;)

I'm sure she'll go back there someday and spend half a day in there.

Sending your wife to Sally's is almost as dangerous as sending one of us (Vapors) to a Grand Opening at a new B&M Vape Shop. :facepalm:

Also if your wife is a Vapor your "Dead Meat" !!!
 

Jerms

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Seems like no matter what build I try (and I tried a lot) I keep coming back to that good old 28g 8 wraps 1 ohm setup. Suberb vape, solid wicking, wrapped in 5 minutes, it just works.

Me too exactly; one coil 28ga Kanthal micro at 1 ohm, my perfect sweet spot on a mech.

I've experimented a little bit with alternate builds, though not nearly as much as many others. This simple single coil build is just so easy and gives great results, so I don't get the desire to experiment outside it often. I am impressed with triple twisted 31ga, which has been my only twisting experiment, so I've kept one dripper built with that.
 

nosmoke12

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Your best bet, twisted 30g. ;)

I use Steam Engine for all my Ohms, coil etc needs.

I've wanted to try a twisted coil but don't have a drill or anything make it twisted :unsure: and I usually get my kanthal from my local vape shop but I'm probably gonna get a big roll of A1 30gauge here soon, I like supporting the shop but 100ft for under $10 will probably last me several years.
 
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