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Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

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Dusty_D

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Still trying to figure out the exact amount of rayon to use in my KFL's. I've pretty much got it to where I want it, but experimenting with a bit more or a bit less, different layouts etc to see if it makes a difference one way or other.

The KFL is pretty finicky about how much is just right. Fine tuning the wick in the KFL seems to require a bit more finesse. A little too much and it starts to taste off. A little too little and it starts to taste off too.. :facepalm:

Drippers are almost too easy and will work with pretty much any amount I load in them.
 

Heavyrocker

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Still trying to figure out the exact amount of rayon to use in my KFL's. I've pretty much got it to where I want it, but experimenting with a bit more or a bit less, different layouts etc to see if it makes a difference one way or other.

The KFL is pretty finicky about how much is just right. Fine tuning the wick in the KFL seems to require a bit more finesse. A little too much and it starts to taste off. A little too little and it starts to taste off too.. :facepalm:

Drippers are almost too easy and will work with pretty much any amount I load in them.

Never got around to vaping rayon in my KFL yet,just my Trident and just did my Kraken 5min ago and all is great.I found out if its too ''tight'' in the Kraken you will ''taste'' the rayon.Ive got dual vertical wicks at .8 ohms 28 ga.Wicks really fast after i did a ''snug'' loose fit.The taste of my Hanseng RY4 taste sweet and beautiful....FINALLY.Im also finding im getting really good TH and better nic hit than cotton.Rayon is killer.I seem to be vaping less also,i may have too lower my noc to 3mg and even use less flavouring.
 
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Dusty_D

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Never got around to vaping rayon in my KFL yet,just my Trident and just did my Kraken 5min ago and all is great.I found out if its too ''tight'' in the Kraken you will ''taste'' the rayon.Ive got dual vertical wicks at .8 ohms 28 ga.Wicks really fast after i did a ''snug'' loose fit.The taste of my Hanseng RY4 taste sweet and beautiful....FINALLY.Im also finding im getting really good TH and better nic hit than cotton.Rayon is killer.I seem to be vaping less also,i may have too lower my noc to 3mg and even use less flavouring.

On the ones I've got it working right, I'm loving it. Can't say that I'm vaping less, but I have noticed that my KFL tanks seem to be emptying out a lot quicker than they did with cotton. I'm guessing this goes towards proving the wicking ability of Rayon.

Now, if I can only get a 100% solid process in place with it, I'd be golden.

Hey.. just noticed you're in Toronto too. Going to Vapecan next weekend?
 

Heavyrocker

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On the ones I've got it working right, I'm loving it. Can't say that I'm vaping less, but I have noticed that my KFL tanks seem to be emptying out a lot quicker than they did with cotton. I'm guessing this goes towards proving the wicking ability of Rayon.

Now, if I can only get a 100% solid process in place with it, I'd be golden.

Hey.. just noticed you're in Toronto too. Going to Vapecan next weekend?

Thanks for mentioning Vapecan,wasnt aware it was this weekend,i just may take a dart over,opps...next weekend.
 

sky4it

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Rayon is a semi-synthetic fiber produced from polymers.

I do know a few things about Rayon. It is used in Shammy's, the ones you seen on TV. I believe that type is viscose Rayon which is the most common type made today. Although those shammy's are wound different, there are also different methods of making Rayon. I am well aware that Rayon is super absorbent, holding 10 times its own weight in liquid. And then some. You can also dry a one of these Shammy's after several uses and it looks and feels like cardboard.

Viscose Rayon is also flammable. Since it is flammable it also can - will go airborn. Which means it will be transferred into your lungs.

There is no way I am ever going to put Rayon in my lungs.

There are different kinds of Rayon but the most common is viscose. In making viscose Rayon, a chemical called carbon disulfide is used. At high levels carbon disulfide could be life threatening.

There also is no way of knowing wether the liver can process the chemicals and polymers in your body, from Rayon. IMO, it should not be used in wicking for safety reasons. Lyocell, another kind of Rayon, is made with some man made fibers. With Lyocell, " soap or silicone or other agent" is added to the product. Again, liver and blood functions beg questions. And there is no question Rayon was not designed to be consumed by the body.
From Jeremy in post 51 "Tencel - is lyocell , a new rayon produced with out environmental impact - or the stuff that doesn't matter that the rayon fear mongers talk about." Because Jeremy thinks so? The quote above is from Wikepidea which indicates man made fibers are in it, silicone and other "agent." No thanks. Silicone inflammatory hazards are well known, and "other agent" means you do not know what chemicals are processed. And even if Jeremy soft sells the agent used to treat RAyon, I am not going to trust my lungs to Jeremy.

Trees are involved in Rayon products and they are part of it. But this does not make it safe. Some nutritionists caution against certain types of tree extracts. You can buy a cocktail of stuff at a health food store and kill yourself. Tree bark, IMO, is especially unsafe. Some of the supplements even contain compounds which are used in cancer treatments. And I would stay away from anything that has bark or pulp wood involved. Some well known nutritionists even warn against certain types of compounds. I highly doubt any nutritionist worth there salt would recommend or even consider the idea of vaping rayon airborne. But TREES AT THIS POINT ARE A MUTE POINT. I think this stuff is unsafe.

If someone wants more vape and flavor there is a solution without Rayon and the risks. Buy an Aqua or a Fogger. For 25-30 bucks, it might save your life vs Rayon.

The sense of timing of this stuff is awful. With the FDA pondering cracking down, dont people realize that the tobacco industry has for years been under scrutiny by the FDA and others for what they have inside the cigarette filter? And that wasnt for burning cellose it was for using it as a filter. If this thread doesnt get shredded you could wreck us all, including your own health. If you end up with arteriosclerosis of your veins, dont blame me you have been warned. When a product like Rayon can dry like cardboard, when it enters your lungs it will go into your blood. If the liver cannot metabolize it, then excrete it, your stuck with it, in your body for the rest of your life. <<<<< I would put it in caps but you aint listening anyway.

Its also well known that cellulose (pure cotton) is not digested but passes harmlessly along the digestive tract. The assumption is that it also passes harmlessly along the respiratory tract. But it never will be under re-view as a harmful substance because it already is the gateway in the tobacco industry. Likewise, it probably remains the least harmful of all known substances available for vaping. But the body can process cellulose, Rayon, IMO, your body can't process it. The other substance silica wick remains a very viable secondary option. Its because Silica doesn't burn so that amount of silica that goes airborne at best is negligible. True silica can burn, but only at high temperatures if you put a torch to it.


What's next, shoe laces or sponges for wicking? Sponge actually makes more sense at least it is a naturally occurring substance. But there is no way that you can recommend it for wicking.

BTW, I put a lot of time into this, writing this up and looking into it. If you want to put it in a trash can, its your body to wreck. Silicone is also in some Rayon, and particularly noted to be in Lyocell Rayon. The hazards of Silicone and inflammatory problems are well known. And even if the company that makes Rayon recovers mostly all of the chemicals used to process it, they havent recovered it all, and those chemicals are going to go right into your arteries.
 

Dusty_D

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Groan!!!!

Not worth a response.


On the contrary, I believe this is definitely worth a response. Yes, it has been answered before, but a refresher is always worth it.

I'll wait for the experts to present their case.
 

Aal_

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Still trying to figure out the exact amount of rayon to use in my KFL's. I've pretty much got it to where I want it, but experimenting with a bit more or a bit less, different layouts etc to see if it makes a difference one way or other.

The KFL is pretty finicky about how much is just right. Fine tuning the wick in the KFL seems to require a bit more finesse. A little too much and it starts to taste off. A little too little and it starts to taste off too.. :facepalm:

Drippers are almost too easy and will work with pretty much any amount I load in them.
Dusty having funky taste on too much rayon will go away with time. However funky taste with few rayon will lead to dry hits. I always prefer having more rayon than less unless of course it is choking and affecting wicking.
 

Aal_

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Rayon is a semi-synthetic fiber produced from polymers.

I do know a few things about Rayon. It is used in Shammy's, the ones you seen on TV. I believe that type is viscose Rayon which is the most common type made today. Although those shammy's are wound different, there are also different methods of making Rayon. I am well aware that Rayon is super absorbent, holding 10 times its own weight in liquid. And then some. You can also dry a one of these Shammy's after several uses and it looks and feels like cardboard.

Viscose Rayon is also flammable. Since it is flammable it also can - will go airborn. Which means it will be transferred into your lungs.

There is no way I am ever going to put Rayon in my lungs.

There are different kinds of Rayon but the most common is viscose. In making viscose Rayon, a chemical called carbon disulfide is used. At high levels carbon disulfide could be life threatening.

There also is no way of knowing wether the liver can process the chemicals and polymers in your body, from Rayon. IMO, it should not be used in wicking for safety reasons. Lyocell, another kind of Rayon, is made with some man made fibers. With Lyocell, " soap or silicone or other agent" is added to the product. Again, liver and blood functions beg questions. And there is no question Rayon was not designed to be consumed by the body.
From Jeremy in post 51 "Tencel - is lyocell , a new rayon produced with out environmental impact - or the stuff that doesn't matter that the rayon fear mongers talk about." Because Jeremy thinks so? The quote above is from Wikepidea which indicates man made fibers are in it, silicone and other "agent." No thanks. Silicone inflammatory hazards are well known, and "other agent" means you do not know what chemicals are processed. And even if Jeremy soft sells the agent used to treat RAyon, I am not going to trust my lungs to Jeremy.

Trees are involved in Rayon products and they are part of it. But this does not make it safe. Some nutritionists caution against certain types of tree extracts. You can buy a cocktail of stuff at a health food store and kill yourself. Tree bark, IMO, is especially unsafe. Some of the supplements even contain compounds which are used in cancer treatments. And I would stay away from anything that has bark or pulp wood involved. Some well known nutritionists even warn against certain types of compounds. I highly doubt any nutritionist worth there salt would recommend or even consider the idea of vaping rayon airborne. But TREES AT THIS POINT ARE A MUTE POINT. I think this stuff is unsafe.

If someone wants more vape and flavor there is a solution without Rayon and the risks. Buy an Aqua or a Fogger. For 25-30 bucks, it might save your life vs Rayon.

The sense of timing of this stuff is awful. With the FDA pondering cracking down, dont people realize that the tobacco industry has for years been under scrutiny by the FDA and others for what they have inside the cigarette filter? And that wasnt for burning cellose it was for using it as a filter. If this thread doesnt get shredded you could wreck us all, including your own health. If you end up with arteriosclerosis of your veins, dont blame me you have been warned. When a product like Rayon can dry like cardboard, when it enters your lungs it will go into your blood. If the liver cannot metabolize it, then excrete it, your stuck with it, in your body for the rest of your life. <<<<< I would put it in caps but you aint listening anyway.

Its also well known that cellulose (pure cotton) is not digested but passes harmlessly along the digestive tract. The assumption is that it also passes harmlessly along the respiratory tract. But it never will be under re-view as a harmful substance because it already is the gateway in the tobacco industry. Likewise, it probably remains the least harmful of all known substances available for vaping. But the body can process cellulose, Rayon, IMO, your body can't process it. The other substance silica wick remains a very viable secondary option. Its because Silica doesn't burn so that amount of silica that goes airborne at best is negligible. True silica can burn, but only at high temperatures if you put a torch to it.


What's next, shoe laces or sponges for wicking? Sponge actually makes more sense at least it is a naturally occurring substance. But there is no way that you can recommend it for wicking.

BTW, I put a lot of time into this, writing this up and looking into it. If you want to put it in a trash can, its your body to wreck. Silicone is also in some Rayon, and particularly noted to be in Lyocell Rayon. The hazards of Silicone and inflammatory problems are well known. And even if the company that makes Rayon recovers mostly all of the chemicals used to process it, they havent recovered it all, and those chemicals are going to go right into your arteries.
:pop: ..........
 
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gorman

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[CUT]Its also well known that cellulose (pure cotton) is not digested but passes harmlessly along the digestive tract. The assumption is that it also passes harmlessly along the respiratory tract. But it never will be under re-view as a harmful substance because it already is the gateway in the tobacco industry. Likewise, it probably remains the least harmful of all known substances available for vaping. But the body can process cellulose, Rayon, IMO, your body can't process it.[CUT]
Emphasis mine on the above. What you are saying actually reinforces the idea that rayon is safe to use. The finished product is pretty much pure cellulose. Probably purer than cotton can ever aspire to be. All production residues are thoroughly cleansed away during the washing process. If there is residues that you deem harmful, I'm all ears for solid proof of their existence.

Coming into a 4,000+ posts thread, concerning a new wicking material, and deluding yourself to bring something new to the table without a single verified source for your claims, well... it speaks for itself.

Cheers.
 

gorman

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Back on topic I'm curious: all references to improved and cleaner taste of your juices... is this compared to cotton/wick? Because while I'm definitely appreciating its performance, a properly set genesis type, with mesh, still gives me the better taste (subjective, I know). Just curious, I repeat.
 

suspectK

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Back on topic I'm curious: all references to improved and cleaner taste of your juices... is this compared to cotton/wick? Because while I'm definitely appreciating its performance, a properly set genesis type, with mesh, still gives me the better taste (subjective, I know). Just curious, I repeat.

I agree with you, and I still prefer rolled cotton over rayon. I can't get use to that, dry/dusty feeling when I inhale..even with 0-mg/mL and an extremely broad range of flavors.. I'm trying to like it, I really am...:/

But before I came to this thread today, I was reading a "RAYON WILL MAKE YOUR HANDS AND FEET FALL OFF, AND IT WILL ABSORB YOUR SOUL(that's actually what increases throat hit..you vaping your soul)" thread, and then I come in here, and I see someone else stirring up the same argument...at least the guy that made his own thread had some videos and links(that I didn't look at, duh).
 

Dusty_D

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Back on topic I'm curious: all references to improved and cleaner taste of your juices... is this compared to cotton/wick? Because while I'm definitely appreciating its performance, a properly set genesis type, with mesh, still gives me the better taste (subjective, I know). Just curious, I repeat.

Personally I never got past the slightly metallic taste with mesh wick, which is why I still have around 5 A4 sized sheets of it somewhere in my vape closet. :)

Sucks being a picky taster sometimes. I wish I could be like some of my vape buddies who can vape through a gunked up coil for days up until crud starts to make it's way back into the juice tank. Ugh! Shudder!!
 

Marc411

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Dusty, if you don't mind me asking what are you doing with your build.

I have four and I am also trying to find the build that gives good flavor time after time. Some times I hit it, think I am doing the same thing and don't get the same results. I'm about 99% sure I am not getting the same density of rayon or cotton in my wick.
 

Dusty_D

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Dusty, if you don't mind me asking what are you doing with your build.

I have four and I am also trying to find the build that gives good flavor time after time. Some times I hit it, think I am doing the same thing and don't get the same results. I'm about 99% sure I am not getting the same density of rayon or cotton in my wick.


Similar to the pic below but with Rayon. 28g, 7/8 wrap around 3/32 (2.3mm) drillbit, approximately 1.3 - 1.4 ohms.

i-qdZgd9q-L.jpg


The only difference is with the rayon being so fluffy in the tails, I cut the top of the bow-tie towards the deck at an angle.
 
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