Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[JeremyR]

post 4485 sky4it - Rayon is a semi-synthetic fiber produced from polymers.

It's a natural organic polymer man. Really. They exist.

Polymer doesn't mean plastic. That's a misnomer

Cellulose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Cellulose is the most abundant organic polymer on Earth."

Sorry to quote wiki but that's what people think is the best source of data. They may actually believe it.

 

[JeremyR]

May have found that post you were talking about awesome.

Pretty good read and they love it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_...my_coils_after_vaping_30ml_using_rayon_wicks/

I did notice one person said they got a machine oil taste. I'm speculating here. As long as thier atty was clean it could have been a batch that was made with a little bit of excess processing lubricant. The lubricant is a very safe natural fatty acid that is harmless. This is where possibly the Sally's could have an ocassional issue. they may not care if a little too much lubricant gets on a few pieces. Pull 20 feet out and toss it. Then try it. A washing would remove this as well.

Medical pharmacuitical rayon is held to higher standards of usp certification and they would be much more careful in making sure the product is consistent.

 

[WideO]

From that same page:

"Humans can digest cellulose to some extent,[9][10] but it mainly acts as a hydrophilic bulking agent for feces and is often referred to as a "dietary fiber".

OMG, it contains poop!

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah it's plant fibers.

 

[JeremyR]

Apart from my random spurts, I remain more of a super long time lurker and silent admirer in this thread. But man I gotta rant.

I don't care or mind if people don't wanna try rayon. It's entirely their choice and if they feel uneasy about using it (whatever their reasons might be), then so be it. They can use whatever other "clean" stuff they want, and we'll just get on by enjoying rayon. That's one of the awesome thing about vaping isn't it. We get to use whatever works best for us.

But man...It's just annoying when they start spewing ignorant claims and go about their fear mongering ways.

And the best part is, after countless such accusations, I have not seen a single person come forward to produce a legitimate and/or scientific basis/source for their claims, apart from the tiresome use of Wikipedia. I mean I've been stalking forums and reddit to see what the various concerns and accusations are. But nope. Not a single credible or legitimate source to state the potential harm of using rayon.

Just. Face palm.

(Oh btw if anyone has actually seen any legitimate source highlighting possible negative effects of rayon, I would love to read it. After all I think we all want to be objective in our assessments of rayon.)

Ok rant over. Pls carry on with the regularly scheduled program.

That is the regularly scheduled program. Thanks kiwi I enjoy your posts!

Do you like kiwi eliquid? I've got a hangsens sample if you want it pm me. I am strictly a tobacco vapor.

I am going to pick up some nets to test out. Now just to find the best strong tasting gunker. May be good ejuice

 

[S2KG]

Can someone please offer me some help / advise with regards to rayon wicking.

I've been using rayon for the better part of 3 - 4 weeks, however I'm having some issues.
I've tried searching and searching... The only video I saw was someone stating (Twist the end but leave the base fluffy as you would cotton, wick it through and you should be good) The readings I've stumbled across simply state jam as much in there as possible. (The video however said NOT To twist the wick itself or condense it)

When I was building dual coils at 30 watts, I found that after a few puffs to a day later I would get an off taste and figure I just needed to re-wick. Now that I'm vaping single coils at 20 watts the issues are more pronounced.

How much rayon goes through the coil, and how do you ensure you can stuff as much as you need in there?

I find that if I take a really large piece, it won't thread through coil. Instead the hole coil moves and I have to re-build. If I take a piece that will thread through the coil it ends up not being enough. Tastes great at first and then goes downhill from there.

I realized that if you take a "very thick piece" but then role it back and fourth in your fingers, getting it slightly damp, pull to stretch, keep doing so the piece you grabbed will end up being 1/5th the diameter. I then barely thread it through the coil (Meaning it barely goes without taking the coil with it). I thought this was it, it must be what everybody is talking about right? WRONG! I had absolutely zero flavor from my Origin. My Russian 91 was even worse.

So at what point do you leave your piece be (Fluffy as it was when you cut it off from your rayon strip) Just twist the end so you can pull it through, Vs twisting it so you compress it, (Instead of being 1cm wide and fluffy"ish it is now the same diameter as your coil, very firm and compressed ) and wick it through.

I just need some help here!



I've gotten it right before... When right the flavor / vapour / nic hit is so much better then Japanese cotton its not even funny. I never want to go back t Japanese cotton. Unfortunately I only get 1 in 5 rayon wicks correct. Since I'm solely building on a Russian at the moment that = PITA! I waste so much juice and paper towel tearing it down and doing it again.


So please please please throw up some pictures and advise.

Thank you all.

 

[HolmanGT]

From that same page:

"Humans can digest cellulose to some extent,[9][10] but it mainly acts as a hydrophilic bulking agent for feces and is often referred to as a "dietary fiber".

OMG, it contains poop!

WideO,

It is also used to bulk up food products. It is for all practical purposes tasteless and can make a regular burger look like a quarter-pounder.

So I guess it makes everything bigger on the input side or output side. .

 

[awsum140]

Picture, I an't got but there's lots in this thread and an excellent video from JermeyR showing exactly what and how to do it. I can offer advice though.

I use coils at about 2.5mm in diameter. To wick them I pull about 1/3 of the width off a piece of Graham CelluCotton (Sally's). I massage a piece about four inched long until its nice and uniform and about two and a half times the size of my coil. I twist the end tightly and use a little moisture to make a decent point for threading and trim the "fluff" off of that end. Then I thread the coil, massaging as I go. The idea is to feel, more than hear, a little squeak from the rayon as it's pulled through. Once you hit that spot, stop, fluff the exposed ends and trim as needed. If you're putting so much in you're distorting the coil, that's wayyyy too much.

Works for me.

 

[Aal_]

Hey aalwani, not sure I completely follow . You mean on a fresh wick then you get a dry hit and it shrinks. You don't mean literally glow do you. That would scorch the rayon a little. However i have noticed that if you don't have enough density the high heat will break it in faster.

But I have been running a really crappy coil and haphazard wick that is too light. To see what happens. First I messes up my old coil and had to recoil real fast before work. Rewicked even quicker with slightly low density. What happened.. Well for a few days I was getting some dry hits with higher voltage. I had one spot on the coil that was gunking. It was a hot spot where my parallel was overlapping. I would get dry at high voltage if I ran it lower it would be ok. I vaped this for like 3-4 days.



The wick is too light too.




So then in my work truck I used a needle to space the coils out and it started working better. The rayon was fine not burned. Brushes off the gunk. And continued vaping it another 3-4 days. Not much gunk building. The wick is light so the fix is run it a volt lower than I normally would. Running it at 4.8-4.9v instead of 5.8-6.

As you can see when I lightly touched the wick by the coil is pretty light.
Been using this for the last 3-4 days same wick still. Just haven't had time to rewick or coil.



The nice thing is I have been able to get by with it all week.

What I meant Jeremy is that when your wick is new and you have it saturated and working it for a while all nice and dandy, with subsequent multiple dry hits which means maybe one of the wraps glows, the rayon kinda shrinks. This is my experience anyways. You don't scorch it from the first dry hit, but yes it give spotting like black or brown spotting the usual. I noticed that with increased dry hits, you get faster dry hits from then on. I hope you got what I mean.

 

[S2KG]

You see, if I use about the amount your stating I start getting horrible taste / bad vapor after half a day of vaping. I also find my coil is gunked to the 9's by the end of the day.

I'm having a hell of a time between to much and to little. Also advise on wicking the Russian 91?

 

[JeremyR]

What I meant Jeremy is that when your wick is new and you have it saturated and working it for a while all nice and dandy, with subsequent multiple dry hits which means maybe one of the wraps glows, the rayon kinda shrinks. This is my experience anyways. You don't scorch it from the first dry hit, but yes it give spotting like black or brown spotting the usual. I noticed that with increased dry hits, you get faster dry hits from then on. I hope you got what I mean.

What do you mean by a while aalwani? a few hours or a few days? Because till your through about 4-5 ml of juice the wick will still be breaking in and reducing. That's what I wonder if you just forcing break in. Because it shrinks just the same without dry hits. And once it's smaller than the coil you have to run lower power. The reduction is a natural effect. I think you just mean dry hitsake it happen faster. And it's really just a sign of going a little light on the rayon.

Another way to get enough in is use as much as possible while maintaining a pure juice flavor or near pure juice flavor on the first hit.

 

[JeremyR]

You see, if I use about the amount your stating I start getting horrible taste / bad vapor after half a day of vaping. I also find my coil is gunked to the 9's by the end of the day.

I'm having a hell of a time between to much and to little. Also advise on wicking the Russian 91?

Too much gunks. Sorry your havin trouble. Stretching to get it to slide through is the key for me. I stretch as I slide through. The stretch enables the wick to make it in. Pull it lightly till it gets tight and stops, then stretch just enough till it starts to move through again and pull that all the way out the other side. That's how I get the density From being too tight. Just loose enough that the rayon can still slide back and forth in the coil. Not stuck solid.

 

[Aal_]

What do you mean by a while aalwani? a few hours or a few days? Because till your through about 4-5 ml of juice the wick will still be breaking in and reducing. That's what I wonder if you just forcing break in. Because it shrinks just the same without dry hits.

Another way to get enough in is use as much as possible while maintaining a pure juice flavor or near pure juice flavor on the first hit.

On your first point you might be right actually, maybe it wasn't fully broke in when this happened. I was under the impression that a dry hit might reduce it more. I might be wrong.

On your second point unfortunately even when light I'm getting a taste for the first 2 squonks but I use unflavored so maybe taste appears clearer for me. It is like a tree paper flavor lol.

 

[S2KG]

I found if I pull on either side to "stretch it" It just breaks in two and seperates.

I definitely have some homework tonight.

 

[WideO]

WideO,

It is also used to bulk up food products. It is for all practical purposes tasteless and can make a regular burger look like a quarter-pounder.

So I guess it makes everything bigger on the input side or output side. .

I know, I was just playing around. I talked to a close friend about it who is a doc/dentist, and told him about rayon. I called it a synthetic just to see what his reaction would be, and he corrected me and called it a semi synthetic "as it's just pure cellulose". He remembers using it for wounds/suturing. He didn't really sound surprised or suspicious about us using it for wicking.

"The rayon we used was in woven dressings which were sutured in place. I t was called Pacacel or something similar..."

Again, just anecdotal, but still interesting.

 

[JeremyR]

I found if I pull on either side to "stretch it" It just breaks in two and seperates.

I definitely have some homework tonight.

If you pull too much it does break in half. This is how I pull my piece off the coil. Stretch Just enough to pull it tight. Like a rubber band it reduces its diameter when you stretch it.

 

[JeremyR]

Can someone please offer me some help / advise with regards to rayon wicking.

I've been using rayon for the better part of 3 - 4 weeks, however I'm having some issues.
I've tried searching and searching... The only video I saw was someone stating (Twist the end but leave the base fluffy as you would cotton, wick it through and you should be good) The readings I've stumbled across simply state jam as much in there as possible. (The video however said NOT To twist the wick itself or condense it)

When I was building dual coils at 30 watts, I found that after a few puffs to a day later I would get an off taste and figure I just needed to re-wick. Now that I'm vaping single coils at 20 watts the issues are more pronounced.

How much rayon goes through the coil, and how do you ensure you can stuff as much as you need in there?

I find that if I take a really large piece, it won't thread through coil. Instead the hole coil moves and I have to re-build. If I take a piece that will thread through the coil it ends up not being enough. Tastes great at first and then goes downhill from there.

I realized that if you take a "very thick piece" but then role it back and fourth in your fingers, getting it slightly damp, pull to stretch, keep doing so the piece you grabbed will end up being 1/5th the diameter. I then barely thread it through the coil (Meaning it barely goes without taking the coil with it). I thought this was it, it must be what everybody is talking about right? WRONG! I had absolutely zero flavor from my Origin. My Russian 91 was even worse.

So at what point do you leave your piece be (Fluffy as it was when you cut it off from your rayon strip) Just twist the end so you can pull it through, Vs twisting it so you compress it, (Instead of being 1cm wide and fluffy"ish it is now the same diameter as your coil, very firm and compressed ) and wick it through.

I just need some help here!



I've gotten it right before... When right the flavor / vapour / nic hit is so much better then Japanese cotton its not even funny. I never want to go back t Japanese cotton. Unfortunately I only get 1 in 5 rayon wicks correct. Since I'm solely building on a Russian at the moment that = PITA! I waste so much juice and paper towel tearing it down and doing it again.


So please please please throw up some pictures and advise.

Thank you all.

I just reposted my rayon wick video yesterday. I will be able to do another video this week as I'm off work on vacation.

Yes to the part I put in bold. i use three times the wick width straight off the Sally's roll to start with. No compression at all; then when it stops in the coil : start to stretch while trying to pull, stretch just to the point where it will start to slide through again and continue on through with that density. Start with plenty of wick long and fat so you have enough to manipulate to the right size evenly.

 

[suspectK]

It's all they have to go on at this point. The science behind it is pretty solid. And Still; no one has anything scientifically realistic to debate the safety of rayon fiber.

I guess well start calling it virgin rayon. So they know it's not a sweater or a bed sheet.

I can't find your post about it, but I just recoiled a friend's kayfun, and he wanted rayon in it. He gets the same dry feeling in the back of his throat, or maybe just agreed with me..cuz he wouldn't use it if it was the same.. edit- but kayfun functions fine.

I really don't understand.. I can put too much in, and I can cause it to be dry in my mouth. I can put too little in, and it's pretty hot and shrinks..which is a good sign (in Lmy s dtainted head).

But I will say, I cover my wick wells with it...I put a huge 1/8"coil in one. *diagnoal kfl build* I had to cut about 20% of the wick short, and I curled it like a typical diagonal kayfun build. I always covered my wells too..before rayon.

I'm not concerned about rayon/cellulose fiber. Jeremy put this thread up months before the sally's cellucotten exploded. As long as you're using 100% rayon/cellulose fibers, the only things I would worry about is the long term effects of flavorings and bases.

Edit-
I don't get dry hits. It's like a dry/itchy type feeling in the back of my throat on inhale. The vapor and flavor is fine. It's not extremely noticeable, but it's enough to make me not want to use it.

This is with every liquid I have...all 0-3mg.. mainly have used my 100% vg with it.. but I've tried everything I have.

AGAIN..I am not getting a DRY hit. I'm getting a dry feeling in the back of my throat while inhaling. Vapor is fine, minus the dry thing in my throat.

 

[JeremyR]

On your first point you might be right actually, maybe it wasn't fully broke in when this happened. I was under the impression that a dry hit might reduce it more. I might be wrong.

On your second point unfortunately even when light I'm getting a taste for the first 2 squonks but I use unflavored so maybe taste appears clearer for me. It is like a tree paper flavor lol.

I do notice higher wattage or dryish hits speeds up the break in time, like you said. I have noticed it and it's when the density was too light. The super heated coil seems to force the air out of the wick fast. Actually I think you accurately described one of the symptoms of a wick that's a little too light.

I don't taste it with flavored, but I can Definatley see that with unflavored you probably would taste it for a few hits. Is this delascos your using or Sally's. If you want you can Try soaking/ rinsing a big wick for your next wicking, let it dry for a few days, so it can fluff back up. Then try that and see if you can still taste it. Just wondering.

 

[songsongsong]

is it true that the reinforced cellucotton doesn't say anything about it being reinforced on the box? I remember reading somewhere that someone mentioned u can only identify the non reinforced by the model number of the box. is this true? I might go out and look for a box today and want to make sure I'm getting the right stuff