Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[bsoplinger]

It wasn't until someone in this thread talked about trimming the ends in an arrow shape that got me moving in the right direction for the proper density. But it just gets so good once you have it right. That writeup and pics should help out folks having troubles or just want to try it for the first time. Would have saved me a half dozen builds or so and widely varying results if I had that to look at. For all JeremyR has promoted rayon and even the videos he did, I needed that arrowhead trim comment to get it, perhaps because its a kayfun vs dripper wicking thing.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

 

[kawboy613]

ok, so who lives near St. Louis that has some of this amazing Cellucotton Rayon?

anyone willing to send an envelope of some to a poor vaper to try before i buy a 500 ft box at my local Sally's ?

wife would kill me if i bought that much even though it's only $11.....

 

[mnealtx]

I'm getting a dry feeling in the back of my throat while inhaling.

Glycerin is hygroscopic - it pulls moisture into itself. A more finely atomized vapor could result in a stronger "drying" effect.

 

[JeremyR]

Okay, tried re-wicking several times tonight. Frusteration and a lose of 5ml of juice (Had to empty a full Russian 91*
. -* can't you save the juice out of the Russian if you hold upside down and unscrew the tip with the tank. Hr

Just to clarify, if my coil bunks up after 1 tank that is because I'm using to much rayon? *Yes

If I have absolutely no flavour does that also mean I'm using to much rayon? *Yes usually too much will mute the flavor

I can't seem to get the thickness down... Is the important thing making the wick dense, or thick enough in the coil? *Tight enough in the coil without compacting it ahead of time.

See, I get warm moist vapour, tons of vapour, great vapour, but absolutely no flavour what soever. (This would make me think the rayon is two thick) But after a tank and a half I get burning, I lower the wattage, burning, I lower the wattage burning.

* kind of wierd you mean burnt taste from coil? When you remove the wick how does it look?

It's not how the build is in my Russian 91, the build is superb. I get the same issue with my Origin dripper.

So again, is it to much rayon that causes no flavour or to little? -* usually too much but could go the other way too.

-

My responses above..

A picture is worth a thousand words.

You have to confirm the density after 3-4 hours of heavy vaping or a tank. Look at the wick in the coil. Is there heavy shoulders. Is the coil setting higher than the wick with small gap at the end of coil.

Typically a pic of the wick dry, primed, and then after a tank or a day will allow us to see what's happening. Or at least a pic after the first tank.

 

[JeremyR]

Since we have more people interested and concerned with safety and chemicals left in the fiber-

". The acidic spin bath converts the xanthate functions into unstable xantheic acid groups, which spontaneously lose CS2 and regenerate the free hydroxyls of cellulose. (This is similar to the well-known reaction of carbonate salts with acid to form unstable carbonic acid, which loses CO2). The result is the formation of fine filaments of cellulose, or rayon.

Source -http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/rayon.htm

---

Rayon used in artificial kidney -

Source - Regenerated Cellulose Fibres, 1st Edition | C Woodings | ISBN 9781855734593
Go google viewer , search purity , go next to 4th result.

Rayon finishing

"Very high levels of safety and purity"

Regenerated Cellulose Fibres, 1st Edition | C Woodings | ISBN 9781855734593

Google view , search term medical , next to second result

----

Rayon fiber - scanning electron microscope





..I wi continue to add to this post until it's pretty full and then will repost the completed dossier

 

[jakematic]

I only have 3 juices. One is coffee and a notorious gunker. And I only run it in the Origin. It's usually good for 4-5 days, then it needs a rewick and dry burn. Also back off on the fire button 1 second before ending a "puff" helps a lot.

This has been working for me to eliminate 'burning' - was just about to post the same thing.

But after a tank and a half I get burning, I lower the wattage, burning, I lower the wattage burning.

As JeremyR said the density is critical and takes some trial and error.

The Kayfun / Russian is notoriously a pain to work on after being filled.
On the rare(r) occasion I have to, I unscrew the top most piece and drain into a teacup.

Also per my reply above, try backing off the fire button before ending the pull.
Mine tends to sizzle for a second or two after if I don't [1 ohm build @ 14W].

One thing that may sound completely insane but has worked over the last two weeks for me:

• if it tastes burnt, let it sit for a day or two to dissolve the gunk on the coil if you have another atty
• turn the mod 90 or 180 degrees before firing every 5 or 6 pulls
• seemingly the flow of the e-liquid can affect this, and after nearly 2,000 miles of vaping while driving it has worked for me

My theory is that I may have too long or short a leg on one side of the wick and it impedes flow.

 

[awsum140]

I did put new heads in the two Protanks I had rebuilt with rayon this morning. Both coils were pretty gunked up, but again that is after about 75ml and almost two months of use. My guess is that I could have kept using them for at least another week, but curiosity was killing me. When I rinsed them the wicks came out basically clean with just a quick rinse. I'll be doing more of a post mortem tomorrow when I have some more time. I'm curious to see if the wicks are clean all the way through or showing signs of burning under the coil.

 

[S2KG]

Thank you for the additional help guys.

As per your questions, I noticed that after 1 or 2 tanks I remove the wick and it's burnt inside. So my wick is obviously burning... The strange part is, I start off using (Way to much rayon as it sounds like) Then I end up with not enough?

As far as wicking, I never thought wicking was an issue. I cut the ends short, curl them around laying them on the deck. (They just touch the deck and I push them against the wall so I have 1mm between the juice well and the actual rayon. I screw the top back on and vuala. I can get great vapour but absolutely no flavor.

I'll build up my Magma tonight and play around with rayon density. This morning before work I just re-wicked with cotton quickly as I keep having trouble with rayon...

It is a sad day for me as the cotton doesn't have nearly as much flavor or punch as rayon does (When you get it correctly)
I guess I'll work with rayon in the magma until I figure out the proper density *At which time I will re-build the Russian*


But to clarify once more, it sounds like you "DONT" comb and compress or make the wick itself dense, you must keep the wick fluffy when threading through the coil. Otherwise it will be to dense once you apply juice and start wicking?

 

[S2KG]

When I was threading it, I would do so in a way that it was very difficult to pull it through. Maximizing how thick and dense it was in there. This entire time I may have been using to much rayon. (I hear people say you need to use LOTS of rayon, far more then cotton) so I naturally went to using as much as I can.

Must be why I started having issues.

 

[jakematic]

But to clarify once more, it sounds like you "DONT" comb and compress or make the wick itself dense, you must keep the wick fluffy when threading through the coil. Otherwise it will be to dense once you apply juice and start wicking?

Correct, I fluff it up a little like KGD - see below

I push them against the wall so I have 1mm between the juice well and the actual rayon.

I let it go right to the bottom of the deck and fan out, just shy of getting caught by the chimney threads.

When I was threading it, I would do so in a way that it was very difficult to pull it through..

This video helped me a lot at getting it right.
It's on a BF atty, but explains about density through the coil.

 

[S2KG]

Okay thanks again guys. I'm going to give this a go tonight after work. (I'll do it in my Magma like I said until I have it down, then I will re-try in my Russian) I'm tired of losing all of my juice!

 

[Heavyrocker]

Tampons are made with Rayon,its a good thing.

 

[S2KG]

See, I've seen that guys video before as well. But I assumed he was not using enough Rayon. Most people say you have to use more then cotton and stuff it in there! What I see him doing is sliding the same amount of rayon through the wick (so it moves back and fourth) as you would KGO or Shisaido cotton.

My concern is at the moment it fills up the coil, however after vaping it will condense more and no longer touch the coil creating hot spots.

I must be way off and use WAY to much rayon.

 

[suspectK]

See, I've seen that guys video before as well. But I assumed he was not using enough Rayon. Most people say you have to use more then cotton and stuff it in there! What I see him doing is sliding the same amount of rayon through the wick (so it moves back and fourth) as you would KGO or Shisaido cotton.

My concern is at the moment it fills up the coil, however after vaping it will condense more and no longer touch the coil creating hot spots.

I must be way off and use WAY to much rayon.

^you're using too little. When heated, it shrinks when there's not enough rayon.

When you use too much, it's hard to tell by appearance until you get use to it. It's almost the exact amount that would be just slightly too much if it was cotton.

..not warping the coil..but enough tension where it would just tear off when you pull on it if it was cotton.

 

[S2KG]

It's impossible that I'm using to little at the moment.
My coils gunk up after 1 tank and I have absolutely zero flavor.

When my wick is inserted, I can't move it back and fourth. It's condensed so much it's on the verge of warping the coil when trying to thread it through.

 

[S2KG]

So your saying you only use slightly more rayon then you would cotton?

 

[suspectK]

I guess this post didn't go through? uzzled:

Sorry...I thought you meant the wick was condensing/shrinking.

So your saying you only use slightly more rayon then you would cotton?

Yes.. Jeremy has several pictures of how much to use.

Go back to when you were a newb at rebuilding, and the first time you used cotton... the amount of cotton that made sense for you to use is how much rayon you want to use.

 

[Nautilusfan]

Jeremy, have you done a comparison between the Graham's from Sally's and the Delasko balls? I know they're both rayon best I can tell the fibers may be a little larger in the balls but guess we're splitting hairs

 

[S2KG]

Okay, thanks everybody. I got so caught up in "stuffing as much as you can" I was using far to much. I'm vaping away on my magma, ensuring the wick will hold up then I'll give my Russian a try.


"For KFL or Russian wicking"
Cutting at an angle creating an arrow, only some of the fibres will be touching the tip of the deck vs all. This doesn't effect wicking at all?

 

[f1vefour]

"For KFL or Russian wicking"
Cutting at an angle creating an arrow, only some of the fibres will be touching the tip of the deck vs all. This doesn't effect wicking at all?

Not at all, it actually wicks faster this way. When you have too much wick on the deck it must saturate all that wick before it makes it up the tails to the coil. Less wick on the deck means less wick to saturate before making it to the coils, thus making it faster and more efficient.