Rayon wick, better flow, flavor, saturation and Nic Hit!

[SlickWilly]

Don't do it jake!!

But your finally gonna Guinea pig it huh. We've been waiting for someone to try it... I imaginary smell alpaca right now..

I have the sound of a cat yacking up a hair ball in my head.

 

[AMDTrucking]

Protip: If your not getting cotton candy or some kind of similar sweetner flavoring, get a bottle of liquid stevia (I use sweetleaf from whole foods). Every juice I make contains at least 1% of this stuff, and until I started doing this, everything I made tasted... bland and difficult to vape after a little while. The sweetener is like adding salt to your steak, it just somehow makes it work.

Sweetener? I think THAT is what I've been missing in my DIY.
Thank you for the tip

Could you please explain more about that Whole Foods sweetener?

 

[JeremyR]

What would cause a clear juice to turn orange after just 2ml when the wick and wire are still clean and flavor and vapor are excellent? After 4ml my juice is dark orange to brown and tastes bad but wick and coil are still clean.

Your getting back flow into the tank with a gutter effect from the coil being too high in relation to the wick slots. That's my guess with out pics.

Remember rayon is more like a pipe. It doesn't react the same as cotton .

Lower the coil so it's even with bottom of the slots, use 1/16 coil... Heat is changing the color; if you don't think its heating up the carto or has a short/ hot wire somewhere it has to be backflow..?

Guessing hope it helps.

 

[desrever]

But can this happen in just 2ml when the coils are still like new?

This occasionally happens to me even in rda's that hold ~1ml. But then I do have lower sub ohm builds 0.4-0.7 in them so that's a lot of heat. Also happens in my genesis attys with ss mesh. Very quickly too since the mesh retains heat and is sitting right in the liquid. Faster in some juices than others. Flavor is "off" like you mentioned.

I just tried rayon from the sample @SlickWilly gave me in a genny and it's wicking pretty well and I've gotten through a tank that mesh would've darkened before finishing. This stuff keeps surprising me.

 

[Kaezziel]

What would cause a clear juice to turn orange after just 2ml when the wick and wire are still clean and flavor and vapor are excellent? After 4ml my juice is dark orange to brown and tastes bad but wick and coil are still clean.

Just had a thought... what ratios are in your juice? Maybe if you thickened it up a bit it would sort out any backflow possibilities... I dunno, just throwin' darts in the dark here...

 

[tmcase]

Your getting back flow into the tank with a gutter effect from the coil being too high in relation to the wick slots. That's my guess with out pics.

Remember rayon is more like a pipe. It doesn't react the same as cotton .

Lower the coil so it's even with bottom of the slots, use 1/16 coil... Heat is changing the color; if you don't think its heating up the carto or has a short/ hot wire somewhere it has to be backflow..?

Guessing hope it helps.

Yeah, backflow could be it. I am using a larger than 1/16 coil above the ceramic cup so I can get more rayon in there and also to not pinch the rayon in the slots. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

 

[tmcase]

Just had a thought... what ratios are in your juice? Maybe if you thickened it up a bit it would sort out any backflow possibilities... I dunno, just throwin' darts in the dark here...

100% vg, diluted with 4% DT and 30% flavor so it is pretty thin. Maybe I'll try not using the DT since I'm using so much flavoring. Worth a try.

 

[Kaezziel]

100% vg, diluted with 4% DT and 30% flavor so it is pretty thin. Maybe I'll try not using the DT since I'm using so much flavoring. Worth a try.

Couldn't hurt... I've noticed that the rayon seems to wick even undiluted 100% VG pretty well... I haven't had to thin anything out since I started using it...

 

[AMDTrucking]

Kiwi, one thing I've done is switch from measuring in milliliters to grams, actually 1/100th of a gram. It's much easier to reproduce results since there is no parallax reading the syringe markings. Another thing I've started doing is to mix larger batches. Now, when I mix, I usually mix 250ml at a time. That lasts about a month for two of us.

I think DIY is a constant state of flux thing...you hit a mix that is right for you, but after a while start to tinker with additions and substitutions. My original tobacco recipe was four flavors and has morphed up to seven now. I'm thinking about adding a nut flavor as well one of these days, drawer full of WL vials.

That is interesting but I think I will continue using Milliliters instead of Grams.

Milliliters (0.001 of a Liter) represents Volume.
Gram (0.001 of a Kilogram) represents Weight.
Even though, in measuring Water 1 Gram = 1 Ml that can change with different liquids. Lighter liquids, like alcohol weigh less and 1Ml of alcohol will be less then 1 Gram. And in heavier liquids like honey, 1Ml will weigh more then 1 Gram, actually a lot more.
IMO, when dealing with different liquids, it is best to use Volume rather then Weight to get more accurate measurements.

But, then again, some people are using drops quite successfully even though in a thicker VG, a drop will be bigger then thinner PG.

 

[cindycated]

This occasionally happens to me even in rda's that hold ~1ml. But then I do have lower sub ohm builds 0.4-0.7 in them so that's a lot of heat. Also happens in my genesis attys with ss mesh. Very quickly too since the mesh retains heat and is sitting right in the liquid. Faster in some juices than others. Flavor is "off" like you mentioned.

I just tried rayon from the sample @SlickWilly gave me in a genny and it's wicking pretty well and I've gotten through a tank that mesh would've darkened before finishing. This stuff keeps surprising me.

I just got a Pulse G genny in the mail today. Did you have to do anything special to the tail?

 

[cindycated]

Yeah, backflow could be it. I am using a larger than 1/16 coil above the ceramic cup so I can get more rayon in there and also to not pinch the rayon in the slots. I'll give that a try. Thanks.

I like my coils the same diameter as the juice channel/slot width, and sitting right on the juice channels (I straddle my juice channels with my paperclipped coil then lightly tug at the bottom). Sounds like it's up too high. If you wind your coil to the same diameter as the juice channel, your wick will automatically be the right thickness to not choke.

 

[tmcase]

I like my coils the same diameter as the juice channel/slot width, and sitting right on the juice channels (I straddle my juice channels with my paperclipped coil then lightly tug at the bottom). Sounds like it's up too high. If you wind your coil to the same diameter as the juice channel, your wick will automatically be the right thickness to not choke.

Ah cindy, I saw this too late. I made a larger coil than the slots and set it at the bottom of the ceramic cup but thinned the tails way down so they hopefully won't choke the juice. I was just about to test it.

 

[Necrosis]

What would cause a clear juice to turn orange after just 2ml when the wick and wire are still clean and flavor and vapor are excellent? After 4ml my juice is dark orange to brown and tastes bad but wick and coil are still clean.

Maybe the juice is power "steeping" from the heat in the tank? Or maybe just cooking in there, I don't really know. My magma, when I blow to remove condensation/leaking/spritzing of juice down the air starts eventually being dark despite everything on the deck looking clean & clear.

How many ml of juice do others here get out of their Kayfun while wicking with Rayon? Since learning on this thread how to wick rayon correctly I couldn't be happier my only negative is that I can only get a tank or two before I need dry burn my coil because it's completely gunked black and I can taste burnt flavor when it's time to dry burn. My setup usually consists of 28 gauge coil, 5/64 ID running at 1.2 ohms on my nemesis mod. I do vape a sweeter juice (Hawk Sauce from MBV) it's my favorite. Does this sound about normal for tank intervals between rewicking rayon on Kayfun Lite? Any help is much appreciated thank you.

From my experiences thus far, it sounds like the wick may not be setup "perfect". Imperfect setup seems to end up gunking fast on me, but thats about all I can offer at this point. I've gone through more than 4 tanks in my kayfun before being tempted to try a different coil or wick setup (hey, lets try a smaller coil, hey lets try twisted wire, aargh). I shelved my kayfuns when these foggerv4's came in and one of them is already on it's 7th refill (~5ml capacity tank) on the same original wick I put in and tastes the same as it did on the first tank. One thing I can say, I have one juice that's a chocolate mint that kept making me think my setup was burning it because it tasted off, but filling a tank with it after vaping a full tank of another juice, then vaping another juice right after in the same setup and tasting like normal, it's like... either that's how the chocolate is supposed to taste or it just can't handle vaping at the power I'm vaping it at, so it could be your specific juice.

Could you please explain more about that Whole Foods sweetener?

Just a particular brand of stevia they carry who's ingredients are purified water, organic stevia leaf extract, natural flavors. Looking off amazon for the same product, http://www.amazon.com/Sweetleaf-Stevia-Extract-Clear-Liquid/dp/B0014ATCU4/ is what I have. I paid like 12 or 14 bucks for a 2oz bottle, almost a quarter of the way through so it goes a long way (1 drop per 5ml is about 1%, and I use either 1% or 2% in my stuff). Nothing I mix tastes right without it, only way to describe it is "this is good, I don't want to vape it".

 

[Tbev]

Your getting back flow into the tank with a gutter effect from the coil being too high in relation to the wick slots. That's my guess with out pics.

Remember rayon is more like a pipe. It doesn't react the same as cotton .

Lower the coil so it's even with bottom of the slots, use 1/16 coil... Heat is changing the color; if you don't think its heating up the carto or has a short/ hot wire somewhere it has to be backflow..?

Guessing hope it helps.

That's pretty much what I was going to say. I get juice that turns to crap when I leave a fogger setup for a few days without use, or not very much use being in my rotation. One reason I have had this happen was, especially with rayon, especially when I run my wicks very conservatively, short n thin, for great wicking, the juice from the coil week bleed back into the tank, also someone a little vapor will go back into the tank and both of these things are probably causing your burnt taste.

Also even if your not able to feel the heat, it's still hot down there by the coil and that could be heating it up enough. Although I stood have thought you would be able to feel the tank being hot which leads me to believe that the back feeding is to blame.

 

[AMDTrucking]

Maybe the juice is power "steeping" from the heat in the tank? Or maybe just cooking in there, I don't really know. My magma, when I blow to remove condensation/leaking/spritzing of juice down the air starts eventually being dark despite everything on the deck looking clean & clear.



From my experiences thus far, it sounds like the wick may not be setup "perfect". Imperfect setup seems to end up gunking fast on me, but thats about all I can offer at this point. I've gone through more than 4 tanks in my kayfun before being tempted to try a different coil or wick setup (hey, lets try a smaller coil, hey lets try twisted wire, aargh). I shelved my kayfuns when these foggerv4's came in and one of them is already on it's 7th refill (~5ml capacity tank) on the same original wick I put in and tastes the same as it did on the first tank. One thing I can say, I have one juice that's a chocolate mint that kept making me think my setup was burning it because it tasted off, but filling a tank with it after vaping a full tank of another juice, then vaping another juice right after in the same setup and tasting like normal, it's like... either that's how the chocolate is supposed to taste or it just can't handle vaping at the power I'm vaping it at, so it could be your specific juice.




Just a particular brand of stevia they carry who's ingredients are purified water, organic stevia leaf extract, natural flavors. Looking off amazon for the same product, Amazon.com : Sweetleaf Stevia Extract Clear Liquid 120ml ( 1x4 OZ) : Sugar Substitute Products : Grocery & Gourmet Food is what I have. I paid like 12 or 14 bucks for a 2oz bottle, almost a quarter of the way through so it goes a long way (1 drop per 5ml is about 1%, and I use either 1% or 2% in my stuff). Nothing I mix tastes right without it, only way to describe it is "this is good, I don't want to vape it".

Thanks, already ordered.: toast:

 

[Tbev]

I just got a Pulse G genny in the mail today. Did you have to do anything special to the tail?

Good choice bud! The pulse is a great genny, my favorite for sure. I run rayon in one just use way less than you think so you don't plug up the hole. I always run a single coil with the reducer, it rocks!

 

[tmcase]

That's pretty much what I was going to say. I get juice that turns to crap when I leave a fogger setup for a few days without use, or not very much use being in my rotation. One reason I have had this happen was, especially with rayon, especially when I run my wicks very conservatively, short n thin, for great wicking, the juice from the coil week bleed back into the tank, also someone a little vapor will go back into the tank and both of these things are probably causing your burnt taste.

Also even if your not able to feel the heat, it's still hot down there by the coil and that could be heating it up enough. Although I stood have thought you would be able to feel the tank being hot which leads me to believe that the back feeding is to blame.

Back flow maybe the problem but I'm not getting any burnt taste and my wick is clean as new after rinsing it. The juice may be cooking but the wick isn't, but if the juice was cooking and washing back into the tank, then the juice would taste burnt and it isn't. It's just off, not much flavor at all.

I've just tried the lower coil for just about 10 - 15 vapes so far and there is hardly any flavor at all. It may need longer to break in or the rayon is too thick in the slots and choking. Still playing with it.

 

[Wern314]

I am having this exact same problem!
A few people have suggested to me that since I DIY my juice at a high VG percentage (70/30), that is the problem.

Others have suggested it is the flavorings I use:
TPA Vanilla Custard
TPA French Vanilla
TPA Sweet Cream
TPA Cola

One person suggested it was the rayon + high VG, but I can almost watch the tank level drop as I vape...
the juice is definitely getting to the coil.

I've dropping my Watts from 11 to 8 or 9, but I lose flavor and vapor that way.

Hopefully some more experienced people will chime in...

P.S. my build is 2mm ID 1.4Ω 8/9 wraps 28ga ; diagonal ; both 'trimmed' and 'untrimmed' wick

It's just a pain having to dry burn and rewick after just on one tanks worth of eliquid. I myself have been vaping 65/35 pg/vg with. 12ml nicotine. I plan on trying 50/50 next and dropping my nicotine to 6-8ml. I think I'm going to try building 1/16 ID coil with 28 gauge Kanthal and shoot for 1.2-1.4 ohms. With regular cotton Eliquid couldn't keep up with a 1/16 ID coil I kept getting dry hits constantly. Let's see if CC rayon can keep up on it. I love my Kayfun lite RBA my only wish is that I could get better longevity with the wick/coil, I'm a heavy vaper so I usually go through 1-3 tanks a daily.

 

[AMDTrucking]

Well folks, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your support and knowledge.
Rayon has been wonderful, but it's just not cutting it anymore....

Someone even more mysterious than I had this delivered to me in an unmarked envelope by a large man in dark glasses.

Tbev - check your avatar - it may have been shaved.

Poor TBev

 

[b.m.]

You go Kiwi

Good god that's alot of vg haha.I got the gallon of pg and gallon of vg from essential depot,and figure i have enough for probably a year and half or so,but what you have looks like a lifetime supply haha.