Really need some help/advice on an odd(?) TC issue

[Freeridincalistyle]

Sorry for the giant post, I tried to underline the info thats most abnormal/relevant in my eyes. If anyone knowledgeable can read through though and offer advice, I would appreciate it SO much. Im at my wits end TBH. Sorry if what im doing is somehow wrong/noobish, im new to TC vaping but ive researched a bit before starting and I looked for this problem but no dice. I have vaped regularly for a few years though.

Hey guys, so ive been a bit concerned after my first week using ni200 to vape in temp control mode.

Currently, im using 30g ni200, 11 wrap dual coil on an aprox 2.5mm screwdriver and I get spread readings on my Segelei 75w tc, ranging from .09 unwicked, to .1 wicked and sometimes it'll read up to .12 (ive even had a .15 read once, and i jig my coils same way every time) Ive just been constantly remaking coils figuring its my technique but im less convinced now....AND MORE

After very meticulously building a few good sets im fairly confident im getting weird results. The spacing of each wrap, leg lengths out of the posts, and # of wraps, tightness etc. are indistinguishable and correct looking.

My .09 and .1 builds (normal af) get literally no vapor almost, in any settings ranging from 175C lower watt (20,30,40) up to like 250C 65 watts and everything in between...

If my coils are reading even a tad higher .11, .12, and anything above, even the lower settings start to produce a moderate vape cloud, and I can even tune to get the results I want (kinda). I can also get pretty big clouds on even just the .11 reads vs none on .09/.1 trying similar settings, maybe just a bit more power but its such a difference!

HERES WHERE IM WORRIED THOUGH. On any build/settings where I get solid vapor (.12, 210C, 55W at the moment, for instance) a juice I normally run on an unregulated box with dual parallel 5-7 wrap of 24g kanthal, on this gives me like twice the throat hit with 3mg. If its not a lucky .11 or .12, and runs higher my coils get dry hits (?!?!?!?), and almost regardless of everything, my coils discolor to a darker (black/gunmetal?) color after trying to vape without redripping every 2-3 hits (If I chance not redripping like that 5 times or so it'll start happening). This was more common with my crappier builds where the center post leads would overlap at the clamp point, or 1 wrap would be like slightly less tight/dented installing. However, even in a few recent builds that are the best damn coils ive ever painstakingly wrapped/installed, Im getting a more mild but still prevalent discoloration that eventually reaches the point of the less refined coils anyways.

The vape settings ()'d in the first line of the wall of text directly above can give me the "tc experience" (or closest ive been), where the tc cuts power down to where I dont get dry hits, but my juice still tastes very weird, throat hit, and coils discolor.

Any advice on what im doing wrong or just what the issue could be? Thanks in advance to anyone...

 

[Eitje]

Sounds like your build runs dry a lot. Are you sure you are feeding it sufficient juice?
Try putting in clean cotton and fire it without any juice, starting from low power (30w or so) & 175°c temp going up till the point the cotton starts to discolor.
TC should kick in on all trials before the cotton burns.
Then take it down a bit in temp and start supplying it juice. It should vape alright normally.

 

[pfaber11]

I really don't trust nickel . I thought it wasn't supposed to be possible to get a dry hit with tc. Anyway hope you get it sorted.

 

[Two_Bears]

I really don't trust nickel . I thought it wasn't supposed to be possible to get a dry hit with tc. Anyway hope you get it sorted.

Nickel is OK in Temp Control. But dangerous in power mode.

As long as the Nickel is kept at low temperatures to prevent oxidization its fine.

About the person that started the thread.

Slight variations in ohms is normal as the wire heats up and cools down.

When the resistance starts jumping around 1/5 (.20 ohms) there is a problem.

The dry hits is the only concern I see.
Either that user has a defective device, or the cotton wick is jammed in there and cannot feed the juice correctly.

 

[Freeridincalistyle]

Hey thanks so far guys I appreciate it.

So im definitely not wicking too tightly. I can see how maybe im running not enough wick to keep the coils saturated over time...ill play with that.

However, im not too concerned with dripping more, I have a few juice fiend set-ups lol. Im mainly kinda worried about this nickel. Lets say I fix the weird flavor thing with wick, airflow and my tc settings....is it safe to vape these ni200 builds where the coils, not just the wicks are this blackish color (oxidized? or something else I hope?). Because I totally understand it'll take time for me to get good working with nickel and settings probably to find my perfect vape.

I also do know its completely normal for builds change resistance due to heating. What I find odd is the huge differences im getting. Its impossible to get anything going at any temp when its .09, but clouds at .11...it could even be like 15 or 20 watts less easily, 50-75c less too and still just the resistance somehow brings it to life? This can be seen quite well with my topcap off. The former set-up, for example, will maybe "boil" some juice for a second, but likely nothing. The latter starts crackling right away and produces vapor, so I dont think its airflow, and like I said I went to great trouble ensuring my builds were identical and wicks too.

Thanks again!

 

[edyle]

Something a lot of people do not appreciate is that the lower you try to run your coil ohms, the more important contact resistance is.

Contact points such as centerpin contacts, and the points of contact on the screw posts where you tighten the screws down to hold your coil, are not one millionth of an ohm or less. One thousandth of an ohm would be super duper excellent. One hundredth of an ohm sure; one tenth of an ohm would be pretty common on a lot of mods, and is the reason subohmer pay a lot of attention to cleaning their mods and using copper mods and silver plated contacts.

Also, keep in mind that a variation of 0.09 to 0.1 ohms is only a 10 percent variation.

 

[Freeridincalistyle]

Something a lot of people do not appreciate is that the lower you try to run your coil ohms, the more important contact resistance is.

Contact points such as centerpin contacts, and the points of contact on the screw posts where you tighten the screws down to hold your coil, are not one millionth of an ohm or less. One thousandth of an ohm would be super duper excellent. One hundredth of an ohm sure; one tenth of an ohm would be pretty common on a lot of mods, and is the reason subohmer pay a lot of attention to cleaning their mods and using copper mods and silver plated contacts.

Also, keep in mind that a variation of 0.09 to 0.1 ohms is only a 10 percent variation.

Sorry if im just being dense here, but doesnt that reinforce the fact that with the small variances I have, I should not see these very large differences in performance? Also, I do happen to clean my contacts a lot. As for the points of contact on the posts, in my OP I mentioned theyre at least not overlapping (certainly solidly connecting), and i scrapped any coil set that wobbled/etc.

 

[edyle]

Sorry if im just being dense here, but doesnt that reinforce the fact that with the small variances I have, I should not see these very large differences in performance? Also, I do happen to clean my contacts a lot. As for the points of contact on the posts, in my OP I mentioned theyre at least not overlapping (certainly solidly connecting), and i scrapped any coil set that wobbled/etc.

watts = volts x volts / ohms.

If you have a 10 to 20 percent variation in ohms, you will get a 10 to 20 percent variation in watts.

A 0.01 ohm variation on a 0.1 ohm coil is a 10 percent variation.
A 0.01 ohm variation on a 1 ohm coil is only a 1 percent variation.

As long as you use very low ohms like 0.1 ohms, you setup is going to be very sensitive to contact resistance compared to setups with 1+ ohm resistances where such contact resistances are less critical.

 

[Freeridincalistyle]

Yep...I just dont see how 10%, or even a bit higher (in my case) variation in my watts translates to the issue that im having. I also tried both similar and different settings on these builds, which for some should create further, more drastic differences. Yet the lower of them (.09/.1) simply do not work almost. Then, going to .11/.12, its a world of difference and I get "expected" results for what I see people getting at those resistances; similar or same settings. This is not the case for the other .1 and unders.

Also, if this is the issue, I should expect that to cause my nickel to behave in this way? (not just vape different, but have the blackening)

When I consider all of the things that are happening togeather, thats whats strange to me, not that one just vapes well and the other doesn't.

Thanks for the patience and responses.

 

[Paul lamb]

Can't help mate seems like you have the knowledge to realise the issue yourself

I use 28 ni200 9 wraps and it can vary between.09 an .12 I think it maybe a nickel thing

As long as you lock in the resistance you shouldn't encounter any real issues

Have you tried titanium? I'm playing with it now it's easier to build with as the coil don't need spacing

 

[Freeridincalistyle]

Can't help mate seems like you have the knowledge to realise the issue yourself

I use 28 ni200 9 wraps and it can vary between.09 an .12 I think it maybe a nickel thing

As long as you lock in the resistance you shouldn't encounter any real issues

Have you tried titanium? I'm playing with it now it's easier to build with as the coil don't need spacing

Im hoping to try other materials soon that'll have lower TCR like SS and Ti, but ill have to wait a bit.

I wish I had knowledge about this! Honestly though, more than anything, I just really wish I knew whether im safe to vape or not....I cant seem to find this out, still. Really dont want some kind of issues for me if im vaping bunk ni or if its heating improperly.

 

[Paul lamb]

Like I said I've noticed on certain builds the ohms differ, generally though after a few Vaped letting the coil and device cool I lock it in and the resistance stays the same then on, only the first few fires it can change

 

[Paul lamb]

The most important thing I believe is locking that resistance at the right time

 

[Two_Bears]

Hey thanks so far guys I appreciate it.

So im definitely not wicking too tightly. I can see how maybe im running not enough wick to keep the coils saturated over time...ill play with that.

However, im not too concerned with dripping more, I have a few juice fiend set-ups lol. Im mainly kinda worried about this nickel. Lets say I fix the weird flavor thing with wick, airflow and my tc settings....is it safe to vape these ni200 builds where the coils, not just the wicks are this blackish color (oxidized? or something else I hope?). Because I totally understand it'll take time for me to get good working with nickel and settings probably to find my perfect vape.

I also do know its completely normal for builds change resistance due to heating. What I find odd is the huge differences im getting. Its impossible to get anything going at any temp when its .09, but clouds at .11...it could even be like 15 or 20 watts less easily, 50-75c less too and still just the resistance somehow brings it to life? This can be seen quite well with my topcap off. The former set-up, for example, will maybe "boil" some juice for a second, but likely nothing. The latter starts crackling right away and produces vapor, so I dont think its airflow, and like I said I went to great trouble ensuring my builds were identical and wicks too.

Thanks again!

The change in resistance from .09 to .11 is only .02 ohm. Coils changing 1-2% of an ohm is pretty normal as they heat up,

 

[Two_Bears]

The most important thing I believe is locking that resistance at the right time

Yep when the coil and mod are at room temp. And never use Nickel in power mode.

 

[pfaber11]

What is the big thing with nickel anyway, does it vape better than kanthal, i doubt it. Seems like tc has problems. I have heard a few people say they have had dry hits with it.

 

[Paul lamb]

What is the big thing with nickel anyway, does it vape better than kanthal, i doubt it. Seems like tc has problems. I have heard a few people say they have had dry hits with it.

I've only had dry hits using TC at my own fault, forgetting to lock in resistance caused me to get a dry hit, apart from that it's a nice vape experience

However kanthal is still arguably the best, I use kanthal and NI/TI builds all day in rotation