Reliability and quality control

[seatacboy]

My impression is that the reliability and quality control of vaping products could be better. Certainly, the movement of Big tobacco into e-cigarettes is worrisome and NOT an indicator that the reliability and quality control of vaping hardware will improve.

What are your thoughts?

 

[itskohler]

I'm new to this, but based on what I've seen and understand about market systems and how they operate, the e-cig market is still very much the wild west. Reliability is hit or miss, unless you're spending good money or getting your hardware from a company that is known for making good quality stuff at lower prices. Eventually it will level out and the lower end quality items will fade out. All that needs to happen is a few companies compete with one another vigorously to produce new stuff, with good quality, at lowering prices, and the consumer will win.

Give it time, read reviews, research thoroughly, and purchase accordingly.

 

[yzer]

On the whole, reliability and QC for e-cigs is pretty good. When I say that I'm looking at the whole world of e-cigs including cig-alikes sold at convenience stores to the more sophisticated APVs used by many people here at ECF.

The values will vary. One can't expect bargain-basement priced junk to work as well as better gear. Some manufacturers and brands are better than others.

Product reliability and QC can vary by product even withing a single company. Take a look at Sigelei, for example. Some of the Sigelei mechs and APVs have suffered from poor design, but the Sigelei Zmax series have been benchmark products since the V2. The Sigelei Zmax Telescopic V3 and V5 are the company's flagships so they have a lot to lose by letting quality slip. Makers of no-name clones don't have much to lose by selling junk to an insatiable and expanding market of gullible buyers.

 

[TheReign]

Uhhhhm. Yeh

 

[revco]

Here's what I think is happening, because I've seen a lot of issues and sentiment like this lately. This industry has blown up. I heard about e-cigs probably 4 years ago, it looked like a fad. A few years later, with a newer generation of products out there, people started saying, "I quit smoking using an e-cig." That's when I took notice and there's going to be a LOT more to follow. All this increasing demand is putting strain on the factories that produce the things and unfortunately, quality suffers.

I think it will change, for the better, absent of significant regulation and control thundering down upon the industry on a whole. Eventually, the factories will be upgraded to meet the increasing demand, startups will come up with better ideas and ideas that fail will fall into the past. The industry will continue into future generations ever steadily. I kind of like it how it is right now, though...not really well defined and vast...but could do without it being laced with risk, deception and misinformation.

 

[Completely Average]

90% of the stuff on the market right now is cheap junk. Clones and clones of clones that are no where near as good as the originals. Leaking tanks and clearos is the norm rather than the exception, eGo clones are notorious for their poor battery performance, build quality of most mods is cut-rate penny pinching at it's finest, and nobody seems to want to admit it.

You know there is a problem with the industry when a 1 month warranty is considered above average, and a year is virtually unheard of. Even the cheapest POS toaster at Walmart has a 1 year warranty, and those cost less than a single eGo battery.

For the most part, the best built and most reliable ecigs you can buy right now are mech mods with RBAs. It's sad that DIY kits perform better and are more reliable than the best made commercial products available.

 

[Katya]

Toasters are not disposable. Most e-cigs coming from China are--and should be treated as such.

I've been vaping for over 4 years and the only American made PV I own is a ProVari--everything else is from China. I've never had any major problems with my hardware, except for an occasional bad coil or cartomizer. All of my batteries--from the Kanger superminis to my stainless steel Sigelei mini have worked flawlessy.

The industry is changing fast and for the better. Yes, QC can always be better, everywhere, with every product--cars, refrigerators, dishwashers.

Just my opinion. YMMV

 

[Completely Average]

Toasters are not disposable. Most e-cigs coming from China are--and should be treated as such.

Any $9 electronic device should be considered disposable.

Any electronics device that cost upwards of $100 or more should never be considered disposable. And I'll bet you can't name another $100+ electronic device that is considered disposable outside of ecigs.

I've been vaping for over 4 years and the only American made PV I own is a ProVari--everything else is from China. I've never had any major problems with my hardware, except for an occasional bad coil or cartomizer.

That's nice, but your single experience is not indicative of the entire industry. Problems with products like Vamos, iTaste SVDs, knock off eGos, etc... are very widespread. The build quality of some of these devices if laughable at best, and downright dangerous at worst.

I'll give you a specific example here. The Innokin iTaste SVD's positive battery lead is 2 separate pieces of wire that are only twisted together and held by a single 3mm wide piece of tape. Any sharp, sudden shock, hard shaking, or simple aging of the adhesive could cause those wires to disconnect. If that happens and the lead connecting to the battery comes into contact with the body it would create a short that could possibly lead to the battery overheating and catching fire.

If it were a normal consumer electronics device that had to adhere to consumer electronics standards in the US it could not be sold in that condition. It would be deemed unsafe, but not only is it built and sold like that, there are actually owners who will swear they are tough, robust, and extremely well built.

Having taken my own apart and seen the internal construction, I'll never buy or recommend another one. In fact finding that in my SVD has made me seriously consider giving up these prebuilt mass produced pieces of junk and moving to mech mods where I have direct control over the quality of the assembly.

 

[Cap'nTripps]

Nothing against china made products here; they may be known for mass-produced garbage that breaks the moment you open the box, but it's all down to price; you buy cheap, you get cheap IME. I'm a fan of kanger products myself, they were the first I used, and it guess I'm invested in the kanger "ecosystem" now. The only defect in quality I've had was one slightly mis-aligned thread on one of my Evod batteries, apart from that, I'd say the build quality of their products is high quality, and pretty stylish (an all purple Evod just looks cool IMHO).

So I guess china may be known for the low end stuff, but they're capable of quality hardware; it all comes down to your budget I guess)

 

[Katya]

Nothing against china made products here; they may be known for mass-produced garbage that breaks the moment you open the box, but it's all down to price; you buy cheap, you get cheap IME. I'm a fan of kanger products myself, they were the first I used, and it guess I'm invested in the kanger "ecosystem" now. The only defect in quality I've had was one slightly mis-aligned thread on one of my Evod batteries, apart from that, I'd say the build quality of their products is high quality, and pretty stylish (an all purple Evod just looks cool IMHO).

So I guess china may be known for the low end stuff, but they're capable of quality hardware; it all comes down to your budget I guess)

Every electronic component used in our high-end TVs, cell phones, computers etc. is made in China.

Even ProVape sources some components from Asia because America just doesn't make them...

 

[Cap'nTripps]

Exactly right; china is pretty much the "worlds factory" IMO, and at the high end, they make really cutting edge stuff. I think the designation "made in china" has just picked up negative connotations over the years.

 

[Katya]

A
I'll give you a specific example here. The Innokin iTaste SVD's positive battery lead is 2 separate pieces of wire that are only twisted together and held by a single 3mm wide piece of tape. Any sharp, sudden shock, hard shaking, or simple aging of the adhesive could cause those wires to disconnect. If that happens and the lead connecting to the battery comes into contact with the body it would create a short that could possibly lead to the battery overheating and catching fire.

If it were a normal consumer electronics device that had to adhere to consumer electronics standards in the US it could not be sold in that condition. It would be deemed unsafe, but not only is it built and sold like that, there are actually owners who will swear they are tough, robust, and extremely well built.

Having taken my own apart and seen the internal construction, I'll never buy or recommend another one. In fact finding that in my SVD has made me seriously consider giving up these prebuilt mass produced pieces of junk and moving to mech mods where I have direct control over the quality of the assembly.

The issue with the SVD is well known and has been discussed here at length. I hope you have returned the faulty battery to the vendor and written a note to Innokin--they need feedback from actual users and they need to know about a problem in order to fix it.

Good luck.

 

[Slots]

Certainly, the movement of Big Tobacco into e-cigarettes is worrisome and NOT an indicator that the reliability and quality control of vaping hardware will improve. What are your thoughts?

I started out with the cheaper equipment because I didn't know if it would work, but it got me off the cigs.
From there, with a ton of research, I moved into quality equipment..
It was expensive compared to what I had started with, but well worth it.
I have equipment that will last me for years, .. very solid and well made.

A far as the juice, you can make your own and you don't have to worry about what's in it.
But, that said, there are company's out there that have built a very solid reputation over the years, and a little research on here will point them out.

As far as big tobacco jumping on the train ... I wouldn't trust anything they put out.
Look at all the chemicals they added to tobacco.
They are trying to corner the market in disposables and are lobbying to stop everything else but those.
When there is nothing else on the market but their stuff who's to say what they will add to the "juice" in their products.
They figured this out a long time ago.
They sound like they are just trying to get in on a good thing, .. but they are NOT on our side.
They will add the same chemicals to the disposals to keep you hooked as they do to cigarettes in my opinion ...
Who's to stop them, once that's all you can buy ??
And they will cost the same as cig's by the time it's over .... they almost do now.

It all boils down to "follow the money" ... they have it to spend, and are out to buy the train !

 

[Katya]

Exactly right; china is pretty much the "worlds factory" IMO, and at the high end, they make really cutting edge stuff. I think the designation "made in china" has just picked up negative connotations over the years.

I think we are just miffed because we don't make anything here anymore... Sour grapes.

Are you old enough to remember how we used to laugh at Japanese cars? Who's laughing now...

 

[Art02]

My stuff is working pretty well. Better then I expected. I have been doing this for a month. Time will tell.

Cigs are pretty expensive but they work pretty well everyday even when you drop one.

I heard about shoddy stuff, but I haven't seen it.

I am sure I just cursed myself, but I am happy with my stuff. It works pretty damned good. I have spent an arm and a leg to make sure a single failure doesn't put me out of e-cig business, but nothing has failed yet. Impressive.

Perfection might cost more, but if you drop perfection or lose it, you will be on backup #1 (the non perfect one).

 

[Cap'nTripps]

I had no idea Big Tobacco were trying to climb onto the bandwagon, but that's only natural; vaping could destroy their entire business model, after all. Have they actually put out any hardware yet?

Edit: sorry, just realised I posted this in the wrong thread.

But yeah, there's always gonna be a low-end and a high quality model when it comes to any type of gadget, device, etc, and IME you're saving money in the long run buy buying quality product.

And lol I do remember laughing at Japanese cars when I was much younger....

 

[Katya]

I had no idea Big Tobacco were trying to climb onto the bandwagon, but that's only natural; vaping could destroy their entire business model, after all. Have they actually put out any hardware yet?

Very much so--nJoy and Blu are BT owned.

 

[Art02]

I started out with the cheaper equipment because I didn't know if it would work, but it got me off the cigs.
From there, with a ton of research, I moved into quality equipment..
It was expensive compared to what I had started with, but well worth it.
I have equipment that will last me for years, .. very solid and well made.

A far as the juice, you can make your own and you don't have to worry about what's in it.
But, that said, there are company's out there that have built a very solid reputation over the years, and a little research on here will point them out.

As far as big tobacco jumping on the train ... I wouldn't trust anything they put out.
Look at all the chemicals they added to tobacco.
They are trying to corner the market in disposables and are lobbying to stop everything else but those.
When there is nothing else on the market but their stuff who's to say what they will add to the "juice" in their products.
They figured this out a long time ago.
They sound like they are just trying to get in on a good thing, .. but they are NOT on our side.
They will add the same chemicals to the disposals to keep you hooked as they do to cigarettes in my opinion ...
Who's to stop them, once that's all you can buy ??
And they will cost the same as cig's by the time it's over .... they almost do now.

It all boils down to "follow the money" ... they have it to spend, and are out to buy the train !

Slots, I forgot to comment on BT. I am sure they have a plan. And they got the money.

I would think they would produce a reliable disposable product. It has to cost the same as cigs or they lose revenue. And the only way to do that is to make disposables the only legal product.

Or, they are the only ones that make the liquid (no imports) and it gets taxed to death and hence expensive. And they make a killing without doing anything. Let the device and tank makers fight it out for the last nickel.

I am unsure about them adding more additives to make it more addictive. I know they did it in the past.

I would think that the goal is to make nicotine safe and acceptable so they can get the percent nic users up to 50% or more. And with a product that won't kill you quickly, they have a better revenue stream.

Maybe big Pharma makes the juice and BT sells it. It doesn't work if I can stop smoking $300 worth of cigs per month and spend $23 on juice.

And my thought is that once BT gets into e-cigs, there will be few smokers left. I think the e-cigs are that good. Even if it costs the same as cigs.

And finally, people like you and me and others on this forum don't mind messing with their stuff to save money. There are others that just want to pick something up and smoke it. They don't want the hassle.

 

[Cap'nTripps]

IMO big tobacco are pretty damned powerful, and the fact they're trying to muscle in on the e-cig trade goes to show that they know they can't stop vaping anymore, by lobbying, pushing harsh regulations, etc (it wouldn't surprise me if they did, though), but that they seem to be taking the line of "if you can't beat them, join them"-and if it means they'll sell vapourizers instead of tobacco, then why not? If they can place all of their resources toward vaping tech, and research some superior hardware, I haven't personally got a problem with that. I think this vaping thing as we know it is the start of a massive industry, and maybe one day it'll be "big e-cig" were suspicious of. Just my two pence.

 

[Steamix]

Electronic Cigarette Market Is Now Being Ventured By Altria Group Inc.

Theirs will be made in China too...

Quelle surprise...

So you get to choose from cheap junk ( by buying it yourself directly ) or overpriced junk ( by buying it stateside fom them ) ?