Repeat Of Same Questions...Look first!

[Snarkyone]

People are taking my statements to extremes, which I guess is to be expected in this world of overly dramatic expression and gestures (just watch prime time television). I'm not expressing a distaste for answering questions posed on the forums. I am expressing a distaste for answering the same questions, multiple times each day on this forum. (highlighted for distinction not for grand expression)

Is there no upper limit to redundancy? No point at which you have to say, "there is more of an issue here than just answering the same questions".

Just to be clear: It is in no way, shape or form difficult to use the internet. I teach 4 year old children that can navigate the web with a minimalistic grasp of the English language... Korean children. The internet would not be the valuable resource that it is today if it wasn't simplistic and easy to use.

Don't blame age. If your neurons are still firing you have the ability to learn. I have an 82 year young grandmother that just started using the internet this year and she's moderating a forum now for her church group. Her story isn't an exception to the rule it's normal.

As for being "overwhelmed" by information... please stop that excuse it gives people a totally different impression than you probably intend. I get a picture of someone in Barnes and Noble having a breakdown because the information is "too much".

I feel we've focused on the problem long enough. Some people have given quite good ideas for solutions and I think that's really where we'll find a balance in this argument. We can agree to disagree. The point I think is to find a solution and generating informative generalized posts and getting them stickied seems to be a good place to start. Perhaps even making some videos. The reality is; we had these already and are in the process of remaking some. The issue really cropped up and became out of hand when they were taken down for whatever reason.

So we can assume that an underlying issue isn't so much of getting informative posts up where newbies can see them but making sure they can remain there.

Everything I have been saying and more, thank you. It's not about not wanting questions asked, they are encouraged, it's about looking and helping yourself a bit first.

You are correct in saying that some of these are in place already but ignored. I would suggest that a force read PM be send out with all new members requiring them to read selected stickies first before posting would eliminate a lot of the repetition.

This place is a bit different from your standard forums due to the fact that these are new and most people find this place while looking for answers. That's great, and I applaud them for that, now the people need to take the next step and learn how to use the forums to their full benefit. By spending 5 minutes doing that you can save yourself a ton of work and then it won't be so "overwhelming" to some. We are here to help and are glad to do so, like you, I too like to do things the easy way, and it's much easier to help someone if they have done at least a minimum of research and reading on the subject. Good luck to all, I can be found searching the forums for unique questions.

 

[DC2]

its a self perpetuating situation with busy forums..

new questions hide the old answers.. a forum has an ideal size.. too small and its aint got enough users.. too big and its got too many users..

and folks just like to post for the sake of posting.. give the world a place to waffle and waffle it will.. waffle is what makes this place popular.. he he

newbies love to ask the questions.. semi newbies love to answer em.. old hands soon get sick and tired of answering the same questions over and over again and stop doing it..

no real answer to it tho.. forums are forums and have a fixed kind of nature.

I was just going to post and say all of this, but you just said it so I don't have to now.

This forum is growing quickly, which is compounding the issue.
But yeah, nothing new going on here.

 

[DC2]

We are here to help and are glad to do so, like you, I too like to do things the easy way, and it's much easier to help someone if they have done at least a minimum of research and reading on the subject.

No question about it.

That's why I created this thread: Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer
If someone sounds like they have no clue yet, I point them there and move on to another thread.

If someone sounds like they have a better idea of what is going on, I'll spend more effort to answer.

 

[ladyraj]

People are taking my statements to extremes, which I guess is to be expected in this world of overly dramatic expression and gestures (just watch prime time television). I'm not expressing a distaste for answering questions posed on the forums. I am expressing a distaste for answering the same questions, multiple times each day on this forum. (highlighted for distinction not for grand expression)

Is there no upper limit to redundancy? No point at which you have to say, "there is more of an issue here than just answering the same questions".

Just to be clear: It is in no way, shape or form difficult to use the internet. I teach 4 year old children that can navigate the web with a minimalistic grasp of the English language... Korean children. The internet would not be the valuable resource that it is today if it wasn't simplistic and easy to use.

Don't blame age. If your neurons are still firing you have the ability to learn. I have an 82 year young grandmother that just started using the internet this year and she's moderating a forum now for her church group. Her story isn't an exception to the rule it's normal.

As for being "overwhelmed" by information... please stop that excuse it gives people a totally different impression than you probably intend. I get a picture of someone in Barnes and Noble having a breakdown because the information is "too much".

I feel we've focused on the problem long enough. Some people have given quite good ideas for solutions and I think that's really where we'll find a balance in this argument. We can agree to disagree. The point I think is to find a solution and generating informative generalized posts and getting them stickied seems to be a good place to start. Perhaps even making some videos. The reality is; we had these already and are in the process of remaking some. The issue really cropped up and became out of hand when they were taken down for whatever reason.

So we can assume that an underlying issue isn't so much of getting informative posts up where newbies can see them but making sure they can remain there.

So I guess your argument is once again to declare a "failure to read" issue ...even when it comes to your posts. No, now your proclaiming we "read" too much into your posts. Or is it that we just fail to see the logic of your posts because of an underlying mental deficit or malingering problem? Please tell us, just once more, how stupid and child-like we are to use excuses that you dismiss so readily.

 

[kristin]

At another forum, it was a similar situation. It's the nature of this type of topic - one where people are new to something and need support and help. If this were a forum for, say, veteran firefighters and we all were veteran firefighters, we wouldn't get that same phenomenon. But, yeah, same questions, over and over on that board, too.

Finally, I created a FAQs thread with quick answers and links to the best answer threads I could find on the forum. They made it a sticky, but a lot of people still missed the sticky. So, people would just give newbs a link to that thread.

But, 99% of those questions are posted in the New Members section. You could just avoid that section.

Whoever said it was right - You're a newb, you ask questions, you get answers from other recent newbs, you then answer questions for newbs newer than yourself, then you get sick of answering the same 3 questions over and over and you move on to other parts of the forum - letting life continue without you, as it will, in the New Members section.

I'm pretty sure you could avoid the New Members section very easily or go to a forum that is for veteran vapers.

Kristin goes off to see if she can put together a decent FAQs thread....

 

[Crankyfuzz]

I agree if you do not want to answer questions or it is annoying, aggravation or just in general about to send you on a killing spree just avoid the new members area.

Also does anyone else see the irony that snarky has only been a member since Sept of 2009 and is already posting this. While other more long term members are not really complaining.

I did my research before asking questions and I know how to use the search function. However, the search on this forum does stink and you end up wading through a lot of information to get your answer sometimes and for real noobs on both pc and to ecigs this probably overwhelms them. Not everyone is a computer wiz or spends their entire day on their computer on a forum to know how to use all the features just my thoughts.

And yes I have seen them post a question that is on the same page and ask it again maybe they did not like the answer that the first post got or it took them so long to type out their question the other person got to post first.

 

[kristin]

Well, one newb just posted a thread, asking why they couldn't post in the general area. SJ has a sticky post that clearly explains this. THAT is kind of frustrating sometimes. If you're a newb, why wouldn't you at least read all of the stickies posted at the top of the New Members area, since that is the only place you can post at first, anyhow? Especially when the thread is called "Newly Registered Members - please read!" LOL!

The search feature does kind of suck. If you're words are too common or too short, it gets you no where.

Definitely need a better FAQs thread for newbs - the site FAQs just answer questions about using the site, not about PVs.

But SJ does have quite a few stickies in the New Members area that answer a lot of the typical newb questions. I wonder why more people don't read/notice them?

 

[kristin]

Just a note, I think the OP wasn't trying to say that questions are stupid, I think he was trying to tell new members that there is a lot of information available and to check out the threads, especially the stickied threads, or use the search before posting your question.

Also, more people should start contributing to the Wiki!! That would be very helpful to a lot of newbs. I was bummed that it was so barren. Some of these knowledgable folks here should start contributing there and newbs would have a great resource!

 

[Porphy]

So I guess your argument is once again to declare a "failure to read" issue ...even when it comes to your posts. No, now your proclaiming we "read" too much into your posts. Or is it that we just fail to see the logic of your posts because of an underlying mental deficit or malingering problem? Please tell us, just once more, how stupid and child-like we are to use excuses that you dismiss so readily.

Ladyraj, you are perpetuating and argument that is moot. It doesn't exist. You are insinuating that what I have written has some altered meaning other than the actual words that I wrote. I have not, at any point stated, that anyone has read too much into what I have written. I wrote, and you quoted, that people were interpreting my statements in extremes, a "mountain out of a mole hill" not some allegorical subterfuge. In this there is a huge difference.

Please take what I write for the pixels that they represent. To venture into maligning my nature via an invalid argument is inflammatory. I have not called anyone names. You are the one interpreting what I have written as name calling, when in fact it is not. You have perpetuated the myth that I have been calling people names. Why would you do that? Is it because our opinions differ? Am I to be slandered because of that fact?

 

[tiffytiff]

Ladyraj, you are perpetuating and argument that is moot. It doesn't exist. You are insinuating that what I have written has some altered meaning other than the actual words that I wrote. I have not, at any point stated, that anyone has read too much into what I have written. I wrote, and you quoted, that people were interpreting my statements in extremes, a "mountain out of a mole hill" not some allegorical subterfuge. In this there is a huge difference.

Please take what I write for the pixels that they represent. To venture into maligning my nature via an invalid argument is inflammatory. I have not called anyone names. You are the one interpreting what I have written as name calling, when in fact it is not. You have perpetuated the myth that I have been calling people names. Why would you do that? Is it because our opinions differ? Am I to be slandered because of that fact?

maybe it's your "tone", i'm sure you are aware of what you have insinuated. your belittling comments are uncalled for. but then again what do i know? i'm overwhelmed with the mentality of a 4 year old.....i guess even i, with my inferior intelligence, can see this dig...............give me a break

 

[ladyraj]

Porphy, please review your posts, here is a sample of repeated contentions:

"Just to be clear: It is in no way, shape or form difficult to use the internet. I teach 4 year old children that can navigate the web with a minimalistic grasp of the English language... Korean children. The internet would not be the valuable resource that it is today if it wasn't simplistic and easy to use.

Don't blame age. If your neurons are still firing you have the ability to learn. I have an 82 year young grandmother that just started using the internet this year and she's moderating a forum now for her church group. Her story isn't an exception to the rule it's normal.

As for being "overwhelmed" by information... please stop that excuse it gives people a totally different impression than you probably intend. I get a picture of someone in Barnes and Noble having a breakdown because the information is "too much"."-Porphy

So, I can deduce from your words that:
1) An English as a 2nd language 4 year old is an appropriate comparison to adult newbies on this forum...and the newbies are lacking.
2) Your Granny is normal but all other grannies, such as myself, should have picked up computer skills just as quickly as she.
3) You don't like the word "overwhelmed"

It seems that your message is getting lost in the myriad of value judgements of what is deemed appropriate according to Porphy. Therefore, in this matter, we must agree to disagree.

 

[Pugzley]

It never fails when a successful and busy forum is created such as this one, you always have people who are self appointed moderators who gripe because of the newb questions/repetitions.

No one ever said that anyone has to read any thread or post an anser to any thread. So if it bothers anyone, it is their own fault for getting involved in that thread in the first place. Ignoring people on a message board is the easiest thing in the world to do.

This kind of thing never ends up serving any purpose other than to make new people feel like they are bothering the annointed oldies on the forums. I know, I've had many message boards over the years and have seen it time and time again.

If there needs to be new faqs or whatever, why not just send a pm to the board owners, work in the background and then implement whatever will make things run more smoothly?

 

[metapuff]

i always try and search for answers via the search function. many times nothing comes up. maybe i'm using it wrong. sometimes if i search for the same thing at google it will find the right posts and lead me back here. guess the google search is much better than the internal forum searches.

also if you're a newb you probably don't even know the right terminology to search for.

i think posts like this one (thread title) scares people off. makes the forum feel unfriendly which i know it is not.

 

[trog100]

a modern day tower of babel.. gods curse for us being too bloody clever..

if he meant us to be able to waffle at anybody in the world he would have given us radio heads or a louder voice... he he

trog

 

[kristin]

If there needs to be new faqs or whatever, why not just send a pm to the board owners, work in the background and then implement whatever will make things run more smoothly?

Hey all - I just created this thread. Use the link to give to newbies. Maybe SJ will sticky it:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ed-questions-about-electronic-cigarettes.html

Hope that helps!!

 

[SquirrilahFish]

the new members forum has just been a endless cycle of the same questions as long as I have been here, but whatever, I agree ppl should spend a little effort looking to see if they can find an answer before posting, however snarkyone, no one is making u answer!

Let the rabbits wear glasses!

 

[Porphy]

maybe it's your "tone"

So I am to be held accountable for your inference, be it deductive or inductive? If you took offense to what I have written I suggest you look on the receiving end of the issue because nothing I have written should cause offense. Please see below.

Porphy, please review your posts:

Will do.

It seems that your message is getting lost in the myriad of value judgements of what is deemed appropriate according to Porphy. Therefore, in this matter, we must agree to disagree.

No. My message is being lost in translation, by you. Let's take a look at the difference between intent and bad translation filtered through emotions:

"Just to be clear: It is in no way, shape or form difficult to use the internet. I teach 4 year old children that can navigate the web with a minimalistic grasp of the English language... Korean children. The internet would not be the valuable resource that it is today if it wasn't simplistic and easy to use.

Intent: The internet is easy to use. It is popular because it is easy to use.

Ladyraj: An English as a 2nd language 4 year old is an appropriate comparison to adult newbies on this forum...and the newbies are lacking.

Don't blame age. If your neurons are still firing you have the ability to learn. I have an 82 year young grandmother that just started using the internet this year and she's moderating a forum now for her church group. Her story isn't an exception to the rule it's normal.

Intent: Age is not a good argument. Anyone, at any age, can continue to learn. Older people tackle and effectively use the internet everyday.

Ladyraj: Your Granny is normal but all other grannies, such as myself, should have picked up computer skills just as quickly as she. (Not even sure where the italicized thought came from)

As for being "overwhelmed" by information... please stop that excuse it gives people a totally different impression than you probably intend. I get a picture of someone in Barnes and Noble having a breakdown because the information is "too much".

Intent: The argument "overwhelmed by information" is most likely being misused. To be overwhelmed is to be defeated completely and decisively or to be affected deeply in mind or emotion. This argument is contrary to nature and reason, a collection of knowledge and data is inert and devoid of intent to win or to defeat. Information does not have motive or ability to cause mental or emotional distress.

Ladyraj: You don't like the word "overwhelmed". (How can I harbor emotions for a word?)

-----------

I have simply refuted arguments that people have posed as to why they, or others, are unable to use the tools supplied by the forum or make a concerted effort to perform research on a subject prior to posting a question. I have not alluded to the fact that older people are incapable of using the internet with proficiency; in fact, I have said nearly the opposite. You are the one refuting that assertion. I have not stated that the internet is difficult to use or that people are incapable of using it, I have stated opposition to that argument. You have supported it. I have suggested that people refrain from using an argument that lends itself to hilarity. You have suggested I harbor emotions for a word.

We have to agree to disagree but not because we can't see eye to eye on the situation. We have to disagree because we are arguing different issues. I have asserted that certain arguments as to why people cannot use the internet are false. I believe the internet is a great resource for gathering information and it is easy to use. If this were not the case then the internet would not be as popular as it is and would not be used for things such as e-cigarette forums and the like. I believe that people of any age, ability level, genetic predisposition, etc. can use this easy resource of their own accord to garner information on just about any subject to some extent.

There is only one excuse in this thread that I have agreed with so far as to why people would want to post right away rather than do a search and that is the point that surbitonPete posed, and that is that some people like to make a connection through interaction rather than searching. I can understand the need to make a connection but at the same time feel that it is slightly self serving and without consideration for others when you pose a question outright without doing some research first.

The people answering the questions are being considerate enough to recognize the need and address it. Isn't there a point when the requester has to consider the needs of the community they are asking help from? Back to point: asking the same questions many times throughout a single day.

The time it takes to answer a repeat question is time taken away from the person answering the question and the community, some of which might have a more pressing need or more unique question.

 

[steveh]

It is easy to tell when you are a burden to people. I promise I will never ask a question or go to the supporting vendors and buy from them.
I see now that I am not smart enough to use e cigs, I will go now and buy a carton of cigarettes. This thread is very discouraging to me. Thanks

 

[ladyraj]

Porphy you are a devilish imp! Your references are framed with negativity and dripping with sarcasm yet...you refuse to see it. Did you have to mention the Korean children, your granny's experience, or how the word "over-whelmed" conveys hilarity to you?

Rationalize and justify your words away and define it once AGAIN to my failure to read and interpret error. That stance evidently is your comfort zone and I wouldn't want to cause you any discomfort.

Evidently, I wasn't the only one who "misperceived" your oft-repeated contentions. Your replies apparently do nothing to clarify the situation...they are simply redundant.

 

[ladyraj]

It is easy to tell when you are a burden to people. I promise I will never ask a question or go to the supporting vendors and buy from them.
I see now that I am not smart enough to use e cigs, I will go now and buy a carton of cigarettes. This thread is very discouraging to me. Thanks

SteveH don't let a few opinionated people who are expressing themselves alter choices that you make for yourself and your loved ones. The reality of life is that we are all a burden to someone at sometime. Most people simply do not articulate that fact to us. Keep in mind that we all have good and bad days as well...we are human. If I have offended you with my opinions, then I apologize, that was not my intent. But I did keep the conversation going instead of ignoring it. Sorry for that8-o

Ask away and let no one bother you. This forum is very tolerant and filled with creative and intelligent people who will gladly answer anything you ask. Venture out in the forum and find the good, not the bad, there is loads of fun out there! Vaping is fandamtastic!