Resistance and vapor quality

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Skepticide

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Before I started vaping (in 5th month now), I did a lot of homework on the tech details of how the whole thing works. Based on my studies, I elected to start out with high voltage and high resistance (we'll call it LC for low current) setup. On paper, this appears superior to HC (high current) setup in every way, and for the most part I've been satisfied with it. However, I keep hearing how many vapers prefer HC due to an extreme difference in the taste and texture of the vapor, and willing to pursue this at the expense of battery life and convenience in general.

So I am left wondering about the science of it. What exactly is happening at the point of vaporization that makes HC produce a different type of vapor than LC at the same output power? The answer to this is my goal for this post.

I haven't much experience with HC vaping, only having sampled from other peoples' ego-type units, but in that I have noted that the vapor is "fluffier" and the taste of the juice is closer to what it should be than it is on my LC rig. The most notable difference between the two is in the coil - assuming the same or similar gauge resistance wire, the higher resistance coil is longer overall (6 turns versus 4), thus there is more surface area to the heating element creating more vapor.

My initial hypothesis is that the larger coil is putting out more vapor within the same volume of space, and thus comes out denser due to the fact that the vapor can be compressed back into a liquid by pressure alone without cooling. I suspect it is this increased density that causes differences in flavor, as I have noticed that a juice which is balanced in your standard ego/clone becomes embittered in the LC rig, closer to the awful taste of raw juice in your mouth. If this is the case, then one would think the juice could be balanced for LC vaping by simply diluting it with more PG/VG.

Anyone have any good technical insight on this?
 

SilentEcho13

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In terms of RBA's, I've noticed that higher resistance setups take a little longer to start glowing than LR setups, even at a higher voltage producing identical final wattage.

As far as vapor quality goes, I do notice that less turns (lower surface area) does give me a bit of "cloudier" vape, probably due to each "turn" burning a slightly different amount of juice. Unless the wick is perfect, I don't believe that every millimeter of wick will hold the exact same amount of liquid as the next millimeter "over" to the left or right. More turns=more liquid needed to coat each wire wrap with juice. The less turns, the less juice needed to coat the coil. I'm unsure as to how negligible this difference is, it probably doesn't matter very much.

I haven't really noticed a big difference in flavor between the two setups though, or maybe I haven't really looked for a difference. I'll give it a check now.

I did read that wire resistance increases as it gets hotter though. So if you have two setups aiming to get 10 watts, increased wire resistance while heating may yield a higher increase in the increased wrap setup. Again, I'm not sure how much higher resistance will get.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong though. I'm a little curious about this too now.
 

Skepticide

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Well there has to be more to it than just temperature, there is a notable difference in texture as well. The vapor produced is considered gaseous but it is not really a gas - the particles can vary in size, and I think this is key.

@SilentEcho13 - interesting point about resistance increasing with temperature, perhaps that and the difference in warm-up time lead to more overall heat being delivered during the average 3-5 second draw?
 

SilentEcho13

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I was trying to go for something like that, yes. I just did a quick test to obtain 8w from a 3.2ohm coil and from a 1.2ohm coil. The higher resistance coil couldn't "keep up" with my draw, which was timed at 5 seconds each.

Next, I tried to fire the higher resistance setup for 2 seconds then attempted a draw. It was definitely better this time, but it wasn't as "intense" as the LR setup. Both coils are about 3 days old, using clear 80/20 juice that I made myself.

I would think that if someone vapes by numbers, they're best off building a slightly lower resistance coil (maybe 2.8ohm rather than 3) to make up for any gained resistance during firing. I wish I could somehow measure this resistance increase though.
 

Skepticide

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"Texture" is determined not only by heat and speed of the heating but also by the chemical combination/composition of WHAT is being heated (which flavorings at what percentage, percentage of pg, percentage of VG)......throat hit level determined by air holes, heat, pg % and % of nicotine in the eliquid.
None of that is relevant, to be honest. Assume all things are equal - juice, tank, wick, wattage - and only compare differences in the vapor produced by low and high current, identify the distinct properties of each. I want to understand the difference in physics that makes one more popular than the other. There is also more to it than just heat and heating rate, as you have a different size element doing a different amount of work with the same supply of air.
 

Red_Bird

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One is more popular then the other? That is specific to the individual, there is no consensus.

Who's not "relevant?"

Don't assume. Not every heating coil is the same either. The same amount of ohms can be derived from different sources ( Kanthal? what gauge? nicochrome? what gauge? is the wire twisted? is it ribbon kanthal? what is the wicking material? hemp? cotton? silica? german silica? ss? what grade ss? ceramic?)

My advice, get more vaping experience before dissing others, lol.
 
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Aheadatime

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One is more popular then the other? That is specific to the individual, there is no consensus.

Who's not "relevant?"

Don't assume. Not every heating coil is the same either. The same amount of ohms can be derived from different sources ( Kanthal? what gauge? nicochrome? what gauge? is the wire twisted? is it ribbon kanthal? what is the wicking material? hemp? cotton? silica? german silica? ss? what grade ss? ceramic?)

My advice, get more vaping experience before dissing others, lol.

Hes saying that the juices used in samples are the exact same. A 100% PG used with a LR coil will vape differently on a 100% PG used with a higher resistance coil. I have noticed that higher resistance heads tend to taste more stale than lower resistance heads, even when using the same wattage and juice. I would assume this is simply because of the nature of the coil itself; the thickness of the wire, the number of wraps, etc., in that it inevitably leaves particular wraps drier than others during the heat's travel.
 

Red_Bird

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Hes assuming one (LR or SR) is more popular then the other and wants to know why. First of all all thats NOT relevant , its whats popular to the person using it.

The heating speed of the atomizer, number of wraps, wire composition, wick composition, eliquid composition and ohms law calculated amount of heat being applied are what is relevant.
 

Skepticide

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Hes saying that the juices used in samples are the exact same. A 100% PG used with a LR coil will vape differently on a 100% PG used with a higher resistance coil. I have noticed that higher resistance heads tend to taste more stale than lower resistance heads, even when using the same wattage and juice. I would assume this is simply because of the nature of the coil itself; the thickness of the wire, the number of wraps, etc., in that it inevitably leaves particular wraps drier than others during the heat's travel.
Pretty much this, and I would also compare using the same resistance wire as well. Also makes me think to consider things like power distribution and falloff; with the same wire, the higher ohm coil is larger and so 8 watts might not reach the same temperature as on a low ohm coil.


@Red_Bird, I didn't "diss" you at all. I clarified the context of the thread, which you clearly misunderstood just as you did my reply.
 

Skepticide

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Hes assuming one (LR or SR) is more popular then the other and wants to know why. First of all all thats NOT relevant , its whats popular to the person using it.

The heating speed of the atomizer, number of wraps, wire composition, wick composition, eliquid composition and ohms law calculated amount of heat being applied are what is relevant.
First of all... You opened up there with a "first of all" and then that was it.. no "second of all" ???

And second of all... popular to the person using it? uh, what? You still aren't getting the point of this thread, and all you're doing is highlighting the obvious. Yes all of those things work in concert to produce vapor - they are relative to each other but are not relevant to the context of the discussion.

Many people love low resistance, this is a fact. It is popular. Whether or not it is more popular than any other setup is irrelevant. This means that a significant number of people prefer it enough to sacrifice many of the benefits of a high resistance setup. So I want to know why, and I want to know precisely (at a particle level) what is different about the vapor. This requires comparisons where every variable is the same EXCEPT for the length/resistance of the coil.
 

generic mutant

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*sigh*

Lots of not understanding scientific method in this thread. The other variables do matter - PG, VG, nic level, flavour, air holes, altitude, what you ate for breakfast... whatever.

They have nothing to do with the hypothesis in this thread though, and it's an interesting one. I don't understand physics much, so forgive any errors.

The naive hypothesis is that low resistance makes more / better vapour. This is because holding all other things (mostly voltage) equal and then lowering resistance will (up to a point) make more / better vapour.

The more scientific objection is that it's the wattage that matters, and low resistance shouldn't intrinsically make any difference - if you lower resistance and voltage at the same time and by the right factor, you'll get the same wattage, and the same vapour.

Skepticide is suggesting from anecdotal experience that this isn't true, and there must be a mechanism, related to the other physical characteristics of the atomiser.

Bringing things like PG / VG, flavour etc. into the discussion is a misunderstanding of what the hypothesis is, and how it ought to be tested (not that those things might not interact with the difference between LC / HC setups, but that's a different, more complicated hypothesis, which would need to be tested separately). I think the choice of phrase "more popular" is unfortunate - I suspect what Skepticide is trying to say is that HC is more popular than it ought to be according to the basic formula, rather than more popular outright. On paper, if only the watts count, it's a worse setup, and people should mostly figure this out intuitively and stop using it.

I suspect part of the popularity of HC setups is simply people not understanding the science, and still partly believing the naive hypothesis. Lots of people will see reviews or adverts, saying "Low Resistance = Better Vapour", and not think any further on it. But kcline has a good (if rather brief :) ) point - if you're delivering the same wattage through a smaller volume, you've got a hotter vape. Maybe it's simply that, and that should be relatively easy to test.
 

chrisrook

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All I know is I build my coils to ~2ohms on a basic eGo and love the vaper. great taste, great cloud, nice texture, not much throat hit. Just how I like it. I've tried ~1ohm dual coils, and even made a 3ohm single. Couldn't get what I wanted. I think it mainly comes down to personal preference. Granted, understanding of ohms law and electronics will help achieve the end goal better, but never discount your senses.
 

Skepticide

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I wont even go into my opinion on this topic as it seems that you are not open to others theories or personal idea(s) on what exactly you are looking for as a response.

I am sure that you didn't mean to come across as arrogant but from where Im sitting, It's the vibe that I get.
He misunderstood the premise. I politely corrected him and was met with derision, so I responded in kind. Take it as you will.



*sigh* Lots of not understanding scientific method in this thread.
AYE.


The naive hypothesis is that low resistance makes more / better vapour. This is because holding all other things (mostly voltage) equal and then lowering resistance will (up to a point) make more / better vapour.
Correct, except it is not necessarily better vapor and definitely not more vapor. Quite the opposite, I suspect; there is a density aspect that I'm trying to suss out here, my initial idea is that maybe low current actually makes too much vapor - so much that the concentrated flavorings become too strong. The vapor I get from my 2.8ohm nova seems a lot heavier than that from any of my cartos or clearos. Some juices taste great this way, others too intense.
 

generic mutant

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