Reynolds bill in South Carolina (H 4074) would tax, require license to sell “vapor products”

[Bill Godshall]

Reynolds sponsored bill in South Carolina (H 4074) would tax “vapor products”, and would require a state issued license to sell them.
2013-2014 Bill 4074: Subject not yet available - South Carolina Legislature Online
South Carolina Legislature Mobile

The bill was just introduced two days ago, and has been referred to the SC House Ways and Means Cmte.

Interestingly, this bill doesn't even ban the sale of "vapor products" to minors, and I don't recall SC enacting a law banning their sales to minors.

 

[orson]

How on earth did "Playing Cards" get included in that bill?

You would have to have a license to sell playing cards, that's mind boggling.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

How on earth did "Playing Cards" get included in that bill?

You would have to have a license to sell playing cards, that's mind boggling.

Because people that sell playing cards, like vapor products, are a threat to the state's tax revenue. These issues are all about taxes. Your government is nothing more than a mafia family, an elected mafia family. This stuff has to stop!

 

[Vapor Vinny]

So which is it?

3) upon all vapor products five cents per milliliter of consumable material in the vapor product. A proportionate tax at the same rate shall be levied, assessed, and collected on all fractional parts of a milliliter. However, the rate per milliliter may never exceed ten percent of the tax imposed on a pack of cigarettes, containing twenty cigarettes, imposed pursuant to item (1) and Section 12-21-625;

(4) upon all tobacco-derived products, five cents per ounce. A proportionate tax at the same rate shall be levied, assessed, and collected on all fractional parts of an ounce. However, the rate per ounce may never exceed ten percent of the tax imposed on a pack of cigarettes, containing twenty cigarettes, imposed pursuant to item (1) and Section 12-21-625.

That would be an additional $1.50 for every 30 ml bottle. And that's just the state tax. Expect the feds to levy a $1.50 to $3.00 tax on that same amount. THESE TAXES ARE COMING and unless people wake up and make their opinions known regarding taxes, they're not going to stop.

 

[Bill Godshall]

H 4074 includes Reynolds' original definitions of tobacco-derived product and Vapor product, which contradict each other (i.e. tobacco-derived products cannot be Vapor products, but Vapor products must be Tobacco-derived products). Looks like the folks at Reynolds' headquarters forgot to tell their lobbyists in SC to change the definitions.


(2) 'Tobacco-derived product' means any noncombustible product derived from tobacco that contains nicotine and is intended for human consumption, whether chewed, absorbed, dissolved or ingested by any other means, but does not include a vapor product or any product regulated by the United States Food and Drug Administration under Chapter V of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act.

(3) 'Vapor product' means a noncombustible tobacco-derived product containing nicotine, such as an electronic cigarette, that employs a mechanical heating element, battery or electronic circuit, regardless of shape or size, that can be used to heat a liquid nicotine solution contained in a vapor cartridge. 'Vapor product' includes any vapor cartridge that can be used with or in a vapor product and containing liquid nicotine solution, but does not include any product regulated by the United States Food and Drug Administration under Chapter V of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act."

 

[Bill Godshall]

Vapor Vinny wrote

That would be an additional $1.50 for every 30 ml bottle.

That level of taxation is not very much, and is Reynolds' foot in the door to eliminate lots of e-cigarette competitors just as they begin selling their Vuse e-cigarette nationwide.

The biggest concern about this legislation (for e-cigarette companies and consumers) and for Reynolds' bills in OK, RI, NC is that they seek to give the e-cigarette industry to Big Tobacco (as PM, Reynolds and Lorillard already have contracts with all licensed tobacco retailers for sales, prime display shelf space, discounts, advertisements and promotions), while most e-cigarette companies don't have contracts with licensed tobacco retailers or wholesalers, and because PM, Reynolds and Lorillard contracts already control 75% of all behind-the-counter tobacco display shelf space in most retail stores (so there's very little tobacco display space available for lots of different vaping products).

Reynolds bills in SC, OK, RI, NC also collectively seek to set the stage for banning or severely restricting Internet and mail order sales of vaping products.

Vapor Vinny wrote

Expect the feds to levy a $1.50 to $3.00 tax on that same amount.

The only way Congress will impose any tax on e-cigarettes is if Democrats seize control of the House and expand their 10 vote margin in the Senate in next year's election (both of which are highly unlikely), if .... Durbin ousts Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, if a liberal Democrat becomes Chairman of Finance Cmte, and if a left wing Democrat becomes Chairman of the House Ways and Means Cmte.

The chance of all those things happening are between 0% and .0001%.

 

[Vapor Vinny]

Vapor Vinny wrote



That level of taxation is not very much, and is Reynolds' foot in the door to eliminate lots of e-cigarette competitors just as they begin selling their Vuse e-cigarette nationwide.

The biggest concern about this legislation (for e-cigarette companies and consumers) and for Reynolds' bills in OK, RI, NC is that they seek to give the e-cigarette industry to Big Tobacco (as PM, Reynolds and Lorillard already have contracts with all licensed tobacco retailers for sales, prime display shelf space, discounts, advertisements and promotions), while most e-cigarette companies don't have contracts with licensed tobacco retailers or wholesalers, and because PM, Reynolds and Lorillard contracts already control 75% of all behind-the-counter tobacco display shelf space in most retail stores (so there's very little tobacco display space available for lots of different vaping products).

Reynolds bills in SC, OK, RI, NC also collectively seek to set the stage for banning or severely restricting Internet and mail order sales of vaping products.

Vapor Vinny wrote



The only way Congress will impose any tax on e-cigarettes is if Democrats seize control of the House and expand their 10 vote margin in the Senate in next year's election (both of which are highly unlikely), if .... Durbin ousts Harry Reid as Senate Majority Leader, if a liberal Democrat becomes Chairman of Finance Cmte, and if a left wing Democrat becomes Chairman of the House Ways and Means Cmte.

The chance of all those things happening are between 0% and .0001%.

Agree and hope you're right. Frankly, selfishly, I don't really care if the general public is duped into buying crappy convenience store models IF, and that's a big if, I can still reasonably purchase quality products on the internet. I don't fear so much that vaping hardware will be effected, but I do fear that ejuice will be taxed and regulated to cigarette prices which neither I, and many other want to pay.

W

 

[Fiamma]

Agree and hope you're right. Frankly, selfishly, I don't really care if the general public is duped into buying crappy convenience store models IF, and that's a big if, I can still reasonably purchase quality products on the internet. I don't fear so much that vaping hardware will be effected, but I do fear that ejuice will be taxed and regulated to cigarette prices which neither I, and many other want to pay.

W

You live in Kansas, and so far they haven't tried this in your home state. How would you feel if you lived in one of the target states and were facing being UNABLE to buy online?

 

[Dacholiday Dach]

I do believe they already created a bill pertaining to minors and ecigs. It was on the local news a month or so ago.

 

[rons29445]

An email (my story) has been sent to the SC House of Representatives Ways and Means Committee and I was promised it would be passed on to all members of the Committee.
I am told they will hold hearing this Wednesday afternoon after the House is dismissed and this bill is on the Agenda

Cmon South Carolina Vapers, get with the program and let your voice be heard!

 

[Exhaler]

Whether or not you live in an affected state, if the Feds get a hold of this, it is quite possible e-juice and probably certain vaping gear will be illegal to ship via any mode, USPS, FEDEX, UPS etc...,.
Federal and state governments are at a point in U.S. history where they feel they MUST regulate and control everything. A lot of the younger people do not realize how much personal privacy, freedom and choice the American people have lost in just the last 25 years. It's really pathetic.

 

[Placebo Effect]

HEARING ON WEDNESDAY

CASAA: Call to Action! South Carolina Bill to Tax E-Cigarettes And More -- H. 4074 (UPDATED -- Hearing Wednesday, May 15th)

 

[Petrodus]

Whether or not you live in an affected state, if the Feds get a hold of this, it is quite possible e-juice and probably certain vaping gear will be illegal to ship via any mode, USPS, FEDEX, UPS etc...,.
Federal and state governments are at a point in U.S. history where they feel they MUST regulate and control everything. A lot of the younger people do not realize how much personal privacy, freedom and choice the American people have lost in just the last 25 years. It's really pathetic.

How True !!
In one more generation...
There won't be any of us left to recant stories
of what it was like to have personal privacy and freedoms.

 

[DC2]

An email (my story) has been sent to the SC House of Representatives Ways and Means Committee and I was promised it would be passed on to all members of the Committee.
I am told they will hold hearing this Wednesday afternoon after the House is dismissed and this bill is on the Agenda

Cmon South Carolina Vapers, get with the program and let your voice be heard!

Just out of curiosity, if you have an online store, have you emailed all of your customers?
If you have brick and mortar locations do you have any handouts that you provide for walk-in customers?

I'm working on a project to encourage all vendors to do the above.
I'm just waiting to hear back from CASAA right now.

 

[Vapian]

OK, I've been trying for a while now to submit messages to to all SC legislature reps, but the online forms keep returning "Error saving Email..." and/or "The code you entered was not the correct code from the Verification Image. Try again." (despite being exactly the code from the image). I even tried it in different browsers, same result.

I'm hoping this is just because the servers are busy processing messages from thousands of users. But has anyone else experienced this and found a way around it?

 

[Placebo Effect]

OK, I've been trying for a while now to submit messages to to all SC legislature reps, but the online forms keep returning "Error saving Email..." and/or "The code you entered was not the correct code from the Verification Image. Try again." (despite being exactly the code from the image). I even tried it in different browsers, same result.

I'm hoping this is just because the servers are busy processing messages from thousands of users. But has anyone else experienced this and found a way around it?

This could move very fast, so I recommend just leaving messages on the voicemails for various legislators. Go through the list and pick out the members that represent counties you live in or around. The last number listed for each person is their capital line -- it's not a home phone, and you won't be disturbing anyone.

 

[Oban]

Called my reps office yesterday and again this morning, he is on the Ways and Means committee, but haven't been able to speak with him yet. I did leave a detailed message with his aide. Hopefully I'll get a chance to speak with him.

 

[islanderamy]

Supposed to go testify at the hearing this afternoon. Nervous! Trying to gather information on this as I just found out about it in an email this morning! I'm trying to put together something on paper that I can read ... I hate speaking in public!

 

[dagnagan]

I called a Ways & Means committee member who is a member of my county delegation this afternoon, because I couldn't make the subcommittee hearing.

To my surprise, an actual person answered the phone, so I gave her a three-minute lecture about how this bill is anti-public health and pro-big tobacco, how I quit a 52-year habit in one afternoon, etc.

Even more surprising, the member (Joe Neal) called me back within an hour. After I ran through the same points I asked him "Please, before you vote on this bill, just do the research."

He said he certainly would, he had not been aware of these things, and he would pass the information on to his colleagues.

Amazing! I guess I'll have to be a little less cynical about politicians.

And islanderamy, you'll do a great thing just by being there. Courage.

 

[BlueSnake]

Information I received from Vapingzone. Sorry I am late in posting this, but the situation is very serious and if this gets a foothold in South Carolina could spread like wildfire. Big Tobacco will stop at nothing.

From Vapingzone:

”As you may know by the recent email I sent out, South Carolina has a Bill that has been read into the House of Representatives and has been referred to the Ways and Means Committee. This Bill (H 4074) is being pushed by RJ Reynolds and if passed, will lump "vapor products" in with tobacco. Basically meaning that SC can/may/will impose a tax on eGo batteries, cartomizers, clearomizers, atomizers, Mods, batteries, anything used in vaping e-liquid. The Bill is over-broad and vague at best and is one sided, Big Tobacco's side. The Bill was read into the House for the first time on April 30th, 2013 in the hopes that we would not find out in time and be able to organize ourselves to fight this. Thanks to CASAA's vigilance, Greg Conley, their Legislative Director, emailed the SC Vendors that he knew of or could find on Friday, May3, 2013. Many SC Vendors and I have been working all week to get us organized and to get the word out. I went through 12 lobbyists before I found one that did not conflict out either by having an interest with Big Tobacco, the American Heart Association and the American Cancer Society, etc. We (SC Vendors) have hired a large Lobbying firm to represent our interests and to help keep this Bill from being called back to the floor for a hearing this week and voted on. We are hoping that we will have the summer to prepare for this fight. But we are up against a heavy hitting lobbyist here in South Carolina that RJ Reynolds has hired. We are one of their "Test States". This bill could also require that a tobacco stamp be put on all devices, parts, e-liquid, etc. Which would then mean that any website in SC that sold "vaping products" out of state would be violating SC Law. From my understanding, the Legislators that are sponsoring this Bill do not understand both sides. They have only heard from Big Tobacco. I need for them to hear from us as vapers and they will hear from our lobbyists as vendors. This Bill could also levy a licensing fee that could possibly be $25,000.00 and allow the Dept of Revenue to require us to be bonded in order to do business.

We need to get word out to every South Carolina Vaper to contact their respective Legislators and ask them to vote No to H. 4074! CASSA has a blog post http://blog.casaa.org/2013/05/call-t...a-bill-to.html where members can go to find their representatives and their contact information. Not only vapers need to do this. Vaper's family members should also do this, even if they are non-smokers, and have witnessed the changes in a family member that is close to them that has decided on a harm reduction method rather than setting fire to tobacco and inhaling it.

We are looking at this as a Harm Reduction issue and will be opposing any legislation that includes "vapor products" with Tobacco.“