Samsung 25R Cult?
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Sure, but the VTC6A is still only a 20A battery so apples and oranges, and, initially the VTC5A hits a bit harder than the VTC6A so it all still depends. In fact I remember Mooch saying that, depending on how you use it, the Samsung 24S can potentially be a better choice than the VTC6A, albeit I should add that availability right now appears to be a problem for both the VTC6A and the 24S.
That said, the VTC6 is only a 15A battery so if you're looking for an 18650 that runs for longer than the VTC5A without sacrificing on that CDR of 25A nor sacrificing how hard it hits at higher amp loads, the VTC5D definitely gets the job done nicely IME. That is, if you can't find the 24S.
Bench Test Results: Samsung 24S 18650...fantastic, hard hitting 18650, beats VTC5A/5D/6A
Here's the quote from his testing:
"The two samples of the VTC6A I tested easily outperformed the VTC6. While the VTC5A hit a tiny bit harder than the VTC6A at the start of the discharge the VTC6A outperformed the VTC5A for the rest of it, especially at higher current levels. This is a great battery."
Taken from Mooch's webpage found at
Sony VTC6A 18650 estimated 2900-3000mAh, 20-25A - Mooch Batteries Reviews Blog
I never said that the VTC6A doesn't outperform the VTC6. It does. But you are still missing the fact the VTC5A is a 25A battery, whereas the VTC6A is only 20A, and, the fact the VTC5A initially hits a bit harder than the VTC6A is only in addition to that other fact. That plus the fact the VTC6A can be hard to find. Plus the fact there's also the 24S to consider, albeit that one can also be hard to find so that's why I said what I said about the VTC5D, which is 25A, whereas, again, the VTC6A is only 20A so really it still all simply depends like I already said.
The review also states that it is a 25 amp battery when kept below 80 degrees and that his were pre production samples and that he believes that the final versions will be 25 amp.
Yeah BUT... the official datasheet of the VTC5A states the VTC5A is a 35A battery when kept below 80 degrees, and, we don't know for sure that the final versions of the VTC6A will be 25A, and, again, the VTC6A can be really hard to find right now so all of this still only really matters if you can find the VTC6A (and, again also, there is still also the 24S to consider, and etcetera again etcetera etcetera...).
Sure, 18650batterystore.com have the Vapcell rewrap of the VTC6A. That is, if you're willing to shell out a whopping $17.99 per battery, as both imrbatteries.com and Element Vape ran out of stock, and so did liionwholesale.com so, at least for now, I wouldn't get too warm inside.
And because the VTC5A in CDR of 35A will always reach the 80 degrees, it can not be rated as 35A battery. I think it is another way to rate the pulse rate without giving concrete time
very smart method.
Sure, 18650batterystore.com have the Vapcell rewrap of the VTC6A. That is, if you're willing to shell out a whopping $17.99 per battery, as both imrbatteries.com and Element Vape ran out of stock, and so did liionwholesale.com so, at least for now, I wouldn't get too warm inside.
The Vapcell isn't a rewrap. The Vapcell is a 21700 battery with "VTC6A like" performance.
Last week they had the green VTC6As, but they do sell out quickly.
I personally won't be buying any VTC6As. i have a ton of LG HG2s and I'm a low wattage vaper so they suit my vaping style just fine.
Also, I'm using 21700 mods with Samsung 40Ts almost exclusively right now.
The VTC5A isn't a 35A cell. No matter what Murata/Sony claims.
It's the exact same marketing strategy which those bad boy chinese manufacturers and rewrappers fare.
Curiously I still haven't heard the outcry.
Yeah BUT... I never let the surface temp of my batteries exceed 45 degrees so, to me, personally, it doesn't really matter, and that is despite I do not recommend to others to go by the same logic that I go by. By the time the battery surface reaches 80 degrees inside my copper or brass tube mech, my hand will be burned to a small crisp so I will automatically let go of the fire button, and, accidental button presses or stuck buttons gone unnoticed are never me despite some people might assume I am.And because the VTC5A in CDR of 35A will always reach the 80 degrees, it can not be rated as 35A battery. I think it is another way to rate the pulse rate without giving concrete time
Yeah I forgot all about that 21700 Vapcell that performs VTC6A-like. The only 21700 that I am using right now is the Vapcell rewrap of the Samsung 30T (in my Purge Mods Enforcer stacked and my two Scoundrels ... 182021 stacked).
I opted for the 40T instead of the 30T for the higher capacity and I'll never come close to using the 30 amps the 40T is capable of.
I would not be so hard on them
. I think it depends on the application, they are used into.I have for example a small electric wood sawmill. I have noticed, that every now and than it stopps working (especially when I try to saw hard wood) for 1-2 minutes. The battery will be at this level a little warm, but it is in a housing, so I don´t really know, how warm the bare cell in real is.
After 1-2 minutes I can use it again, so I assume it has some kind of a temperature cut-off (?!). For those applications with an NTC, or protection circuit, the 35A is very useful (I guess).
It was a quick scroll past all the posts only discussing other batteries since this is a 25R thread I vape ~45W on double or triple battery mods so most of my batteries are 25R. I also have LG2s and 30Qs but you can't beat the performance for the price of 25Rs at my power requirement level.
They are a very highly counterfeited battery though so get them from a reputable source. I get all mine from IMR, RTD or ecig.com
Not e-cig dot com ever never never never - e-cig dot com is a ripoff but ecig.com has proven reliable for me with 13 orders (6 orders of 18650s, I just checked)
Here's a Mooch 25R heads-up from last year that a quick Google found
I vape ~45W on double or triple battery mods so most of my batteries are 25R. I also have LG2s and 30Qs but you can't beat the performance for the price of 25Rs at my power requirement level.They are a very highly counterfeited battery though so get them from a reputable source. I get all mine from IMR, RTD or ecig.com
Not e-cig dot com ever never never never - e-cig dot com is a ripoff but ecig.com has proven reliable for me with 13 orders (6 orders of 18650s, I just checked)
Here's a Mooch 25R heads-up from last year that a quick Google found
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For non-Facebookers
Fake Samsung 25R Alert
There have been some very good fake 25R's popping up lately. Thanks to some fantastic members of this community who sent their fakes to me for testing I have some idea of what's going on.
Most of the fakes are identical in appearance and performance to the 10A 2050mAh Samsung 22P battery (Type 1 in the graphs). This battery is a terrible performer compared to the 25R. One fake was much worse than all the others. It might have been a lower grade 22P or damaged during use before I received it.
But I have one fake that is different from the others, Type 2 in the graphs. It has the metal can code for, I believe, a Samsung 29E. But the top contact structure seems wrong for the 29E. I don't know for sure what this fake actually is. It's performance is lousy compared to the 25R though.
One HUGE problem with these fake 25R's is that the top insulating rings are free-floating and not self-adhesive and glued down to the battery! This is the first time I have ever seen this. We can no longer always say that a battery with a free-floating ring is genuine.
But here's how to spot these fake 25R's:
- If there are any lines radiating out from the center of the venting disk under the top contact then the battery cannot be a 25R. There are four of these lines in the fakes, spaced at 90° intervals. If you see even one though, as they are hard to spot, the battery cannot be a 25R.
- You can see the venting disk without unwrapping the battery but you'll need a bright light source and a magnifier is very helpful.
- If you do not see any of these radial lines in the venting disk that does NOT mean that the battery is a genuine 25R. Other fakes might not have the lines.
- If there is anything other than a "5" as the second character in the uppermost four character code on the metal can, near the top, then the battery CANNOT be a genuine 25R. If it is a "2" then it's most likely a rewrapped Samsung 22P. You can see this code through the wrap.
- If there are no codes on the metal can then it's a fake 25R. It might still be a Samsung but someone has washed off the codes.
- The batch codes on the wrap CANNOT be used alone to detect these fakes as they might be genuine batch codes. The codes for the fakes I have are 2G22 and 2F34, located at the end of the second line of printing on the wrap.
- I want to say this again...these batch codes might be genuine and cannot be used as the only method to check for authenticity.
- There might be other batch codes being used for these fakes. Do not assume that having a batch code other than 2G22 and 2F34 means you have a genuine 25R. Check the venting disk for radial lines.
That's all I have for now.
If you do have any fakes I recommend not using them at all. Contact the vendor you purchased them from to see what can be done.
Please do not send me pictures of your 25R's to authenticate them. I am unable to do so via photographs.
Hoping your 25R's are genuine!
Thanks @Mooch I did have a few fakes that I got in a craisgslist box-o-stuff. Quickly covered in blue carpenters tape and in the battery recycle bucket they went
I called the local shop that he bought them from to give them a FYI
Fake Samsung 25R Alert
There have been some very good fake 25R's popping up lately. Thanks to some fantastic members of this community who sent their fakes to me for testing I have some idea of what's going on.
Most of the fakes are identical in appearance and performance to the 10A 2050mAh Samsung 22P battery (Type 1 in the graphs). This battery is a terrible performer compared to the 25R. One fake was much worse than all the others. It might have been a lower grade 22P or damaged during use before I received it.
But I have one fake that is different from the others, Type 2 in the graphs. It has the metal can code for, I believe, a Samsung 29E. But the top contact structure seems wrong for the 29E. I don't know for sure what this fake actually is. It's performance is lousy compared to the 25R though.
One HUGE problem with these fake 25R's is that the top insulating rings are free-floating and not self-adhesive and glued down to the battery! This is the first time I have ever seen this. We can no longer always say that a battery with a free-floating ring is genuine.
But here's how to spot these fake 25R's:
- If there are any lines radiating out from the center of the venting disk under the top contact then the battery cannot be a 25R. There are four of these lines in the fakes, spaced at 90° intervals. If you see even one though, as they are hard to spot, the battery cannot be a 25R.
- You can see the venting disk without unwrapping the battery but you'll need a bright light source and a magnifier is very helpful.
- If you do not see any of these radial lines in the venting disk that does NOT mean that the battery is a genuine 25R. Other fakes might not have the lines.
- If there is anything other than a "5" as the second character in the uppermost four character code on the metal can, near the top, then the battery CANNOT be a genuine 25R. If it is a "2" then it's most likely a rewrapped Samsung 22P. You can see this code through the wrap.
- If there are no codes on the metal can then it's a fake 25R. It might still be a Samsung but someone has washed off the codes.
- The batch codes on the wrap CANNOT be used alone to detect these fakes as they might be genuine batch codes. The codes for the fakes I have are 2G22 and 2F34, located at the end of the second line of printing on the wrap.
- I want to say this again...these batch codes might be genuine and cannot be used as the only method to check for authenticity.
- There might be other batch codes being used for these fakes. Do not assume that having a batch code other than 2G22 and 2F34 means you have a genuine 25R. Check the venting disk for radial lines.
That's all I have for now.
If you do have any fakes I recommend not using them at all. Contact the vendor you purchased them from to see what can be done.
Please do not send me pictures of your 25R's to authenticate them. I am unable to do so via photographs.
Hoping your 25R's are genuine!
Thanks @Mooch I did have a few fakes that I got in a craisgslist box-o-stuff. Quickly covered in blue carpenters tape and in the battery recycle bucket they went
I called the local shop that he bought them from to give them a FYI
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A copper or brass tube mech is certainly not the same thing as a fully protected battery pack (with a protection circuit and a Battery Management System, or BMS) designed to be used in a power tool or cordless vacuum cleaner or laptop computer. But then, I certainly don't recommend to anyone to go above the CDR so just because I am going above the CDR, doesn't also mean I recommend to anyone to do the same. I don't. But I still go above the CDR anyway nevertheless. But not without proper knowledge and awareness as well as acceptance of the added risk.I would not be so hard on them
I have for example a small electric wood sawmill. I have noticed, that every now and than it stopps working (especially when I try to saw hard wood) for 1-2 minutes. The battery will be at this level a little warm, but it is in a housing, so I don´t really know, how warm the bare cell in real is.
After 1-2 minutes I can use it again, so I assume it has some kind of a temperature cut-off (?!). For those applications with an NTC, or protection circuit, the 35A is very useful (I guess).
That said, I am not a fully protected battery pack when I am holding my tube mech in my hand, nor feel the need to pretend that I am. To stay at or below the CDR is all I recommend to people who ask, and that is also what Mooch has told to everyone who listens to him, myself included, but that doesn't also mean I won't let those people who ask about the CDR find their own path after that, as Mooch himself has said we should just let them find their own path after that. One minor caveat IMO, if systemically pushing that same path into the taboo atmosphere as opposed to having an educated discussion of what might be a reasonable way to find such a path and not get lost somewhere along the way, then logically, at some point in time someone is going to miss a turn.
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