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Samsung 25R / Sony VTC5A performance after 250 charges

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by jersey_emt, Dec 12, 2017.

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  1. jersey_emt

    jersey_emt Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2009
    New Jersey, USA
    Back in April, I ordered a pair of Samsung 25R and Sony VTC5A batteries, and have been using them daily in my Cuboid and eVic Primo 2.0. I've been keeping track of their accumulated charge/discharge cycles, and both have just hit 250 cycles.

    Most of the time they were charged when discharged to 3.1 - 3.2 volts (when I would start getting a weak battery warning). Occasionally they were charged earlier, but never before being discharged to 3.5 volts.

    I am seriously impressed with how they are holding up, especially the VTC5A's.

    When new, both would provide between 800–1000 seconds of vaping at an average wattage of around 70 W. After 250 cycles, the 25R's are giving me 700–900 seconds, and the VTC5A's are still giving 800–950 seconds.
     
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  2. TKnapa

    TKnapa Unresolved Status

    Feb 7, 2017
    Thanks for that update. I'm curious, how did you get the 800-1000 seconds and other numbers? Does the Cuboid and eVic count puffs and puff duration?

    Could you share your average puffs/day and other data? I'm doing battery research and trying to relate it to real world user conditions.

    This kind of information is just as valuable as the battery tests in my opinion. It's real life, inside a mod with battery and board heating, using standard quality battery contacts, etc. Love to see more user data like this.

    Thank you for the post
     
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  3. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    one way to do it is run Arctic Fox firmware. I believe the Cuboid and Evic are compatible. I use AF on my Pico and evic mini.
     
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  4. jersey_emt

    jersey_emt Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2009
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, both keep track of puff count and total puff time. I am running the ArcticFox firmware, but the stock firmware also saves this information (at least until 99,999 puffs or 99,999 seconds, after which it rolls over to zero).

    Both the stock firmware and ArcticFox firmware only "count" puffs if they are at least 0.6 seconds or longer (a 0.1–0.5 second puff will not increment the puff counter or seconds counter). This is done so accidental fire button presses are not counted.

    And the seconds counter seems to keep track of tenths of a second, even though only whole seconds are shown on the display. It's not just rounding the length of each puff to the nearest whole second, it is using the puff length in tenths of a second internally, and only rounds down the total puff time displayed.

    I tend to take fairly long puffs, with an average of a bit over 5 seconds. I run a wide variety of coil builds and wattages, but at least 90% of the time I vape on a dual twisted coil build at 60–80 watts.
     
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  5. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    jersey_emt, your findings make sense. It demonstrates both are high quality cells, and specially says a lot with regards to 25R cells because it should be noted that their amperage/power rating is lower than that of VTC5As and therefore at ≈70W they're operating at their maximum while VTC5As do not. They're also much cheaper, in fact just bought a 6-pack of 25Rs very recently in AliExpress for $18.75 while the lowest I can see for 6x VTC5As is $33.08, this is quite :glare: a difference. At this point I bear no doubt Samsung cells are the best bang for the buck among the big manufacturers in this industry.

    Cheers :2c:
     
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  6. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I'm sold on Samsung 30Q, Sony VTC6, and LG HG2 for my under 20W vaping style. They are also good for most high current needs, but the MAH on all three provides the longest vape time at low wattage that I've encountered.

    I rotate them in 4 cell plastic boxes to even out use and provide maximum rest time. Newly charged batteries go back in on the left and the one on the right goes into my mod.
     
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  7. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I love my Samsung 30Q batteries for my low wattage needs. I actually bought too many last time, so I have several sets that are hanging out, hopefully draining slowwwwlllly until they may be needed. Very pleased with my batteries (and lack of need to rewrap now that I handle them carefully) although if anyone NEEDS battery wraps, for the love of God, PM me. I bought enough of them that should I find the tree of eternal life, I still won't use them all. And IMR batteries keeps sending me free ones :lol::lol:.

    Anna
     
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  8. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Is that as in buy some, get one free style?
     
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  9. jersey_emt

    jersey_emt Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2009
    New Jersey, USA
    IMRBatteries gives you 2 free battery wraps when you buy a pair of batteries.
     
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  10. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I've bought from RTD and IMR, as well as several of the other favorite battery suppliers. My last purchase was from RTD because they had the sale price on 30Q's. And, I like the free battery boxes for each pair you buy.
     
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  11. Monotremata

    Monotremata Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2014
    Covina, CA
    I love my 30Qs! My builds/wattage only hits right around 5A so the extra runtime is really handy! Ive got 2 pairs of 25R's as well Ive had for about 3 years now, Im pretty sure Ive charged them more than 250 times as I go through one about every 24 hours. Those things are still holding up great too. My 3 year old LG HE2 and HE4 pairs, not so well. I can go through one of the HE2's in less than a day now. I should probably just retire them, the wraps are starting to rip on them anyways. Luckily my batteries are in a plastic 18650 sleeve inside my mod so I don't have to worry about it shorting on the sides heh.
     
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  12. jersey_emt

    jersey_emt Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2009
    New Jersey, USA
    I've had a similar experience with my two pairs of LG HG2's; they are the batteries that I replaced with the 25R's and VTC5A's. The 25R's and VTC5A's haven't quite made it to the same level of usage as the HG2's, but they are still almost as good as they were brand new. The HG2's had degraded significantly after just a few months. And with about a year of daily use, they became essentially useless for me – after just a few puffs at 60 watts I would get weak battery warnings.
     
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  13. dobroeutro

    dobroeutro Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    May 14, 2016
    North Carolina
    I use Samsung 30Q's, Sony VTC6's, and LG HG2's and have been happy with their performance... :cool:
     
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  14. mimöschen

    mimöschen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    I had to replace my confirmed authentic HG2s after about a 3/4 year, because they degraded way too fast. That's the last time I bought LGs and I probably won't buy LGs ever again.
    The 30Qs I purchased soon after I got the HG2s still go strong, although even those have dropped in capacity a bit, but they also get stressed a lot more than the LGs ever did.
     
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  15. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Personally I wouldn't “blacklist” any given manufacturer just because their products right now do not seem up to par, things can change and usually do.
    Sony is known for their great products but, imho, they probably sacrificed cycle life in their VTC6 cell just for it to look better than their rivals over the test bench. VTC5/VTC5As do not seem to have this “problem”.

    Cheers :)
     
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  16. mimöschen

    mimöschen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    As it stands now, LGs aren't the worst batteries on the market, but there are better and cheaper alternatives available.
    So why should someone invest in LGs, when there are better and cheaper batteries around?
    Of course that might change in time, but even when we compare all those new 20700s, LG lags behind the other big companies. Not by too much, but still noticeable.

    VTC6 are like a Formula 1 car. They perform excellent for a certain period, but when going over the intended distance, they start to malfunction or in this case degrade more rapidly than other batteries.
    VTC5As however are undisputedly the best performers for high wattage vaping.
    If they are available that is. Since Bosch builds their batterypacks with them, the retail market is quite dry of genuine VTC5As.
    The Sanyo UR18650NSX is very close though. And they are not only readily available, but you can get those for about half the price of a VTC5A.
     
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  17. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    At my 2A vaping style (10W/2.8V/.78 ohms right now), batteries last a long time. I'm starting to see a drop in vape time from my 30Q's after over a year of daily rotation.

    I use my older batteries in a 5W - 5000 lumen LED flashlight after they start to degrade a little and replace them with new ones for vaping. For flashlight use they are still fine.
     
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  18. Barkuti

    Barkuti Senior Member ECF Veteran

    5000 lumens/5W? :blush::laugh::facepalm:

    Cheers ;)
     
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  19. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    Someone invented an LED that's 145% efficient at converting electricity to light! ;)
     
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  20. jersey_emt

    jersey_emt Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 26, 2009
    New Jersey, USA
    What is the reason for the rapid degradation of VTC6 cells?

    Thanks for the info! I'll keep those Sanyo cells in mind if I have trouble locating VTC5A's when it is time to replace my current batteries.
     
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