SE, NJoy vs FDA -- Discussion

[thephoenix]

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I do understand your comment about judges being people at the end of the day which seems reasonable to me. I would simply suggest that those who choose to foreward their sentiments choose their words wisely.

Good point. And you're right - if it's too heavy on the "I quit" thing...then judges may lean toward the smoking cessation classification.

My point being that if the wording is right & several hundred letters start pouring in to the judges office citing people who use this "alternative tobacco product" with no harm could sway opinion...

I'm still composing my letter. I may or may not post a topic inviting more forum members to do it...

It could be playing with fire as you noted.

 

[thephoenix]

No movement on the docket.

But Smoking Everywhere seems to be in the news lately:


Read more: E-cigarettes: One battle lost; war continues - Business - MiamiHerald.com)

well...that's rotten news...

 

[JustJulie]

No movement on the docket today.

 

[Vocalek]

If I remember correctly, it was around 1/1500 of the average cigarette.

Let's go with worst case scenario on a per day basis and work the math together. The Ruyan cartridges tested by Health New Zealand contained 8 ng/g of TSNAs. Let's assume that that a high-volume vaper might use 3 grams per day. (3 one-ml cartridges or 6 half-ml cartridges) That's a total of 24 ng.

A single Marlboro (full flavor) contains 5,500 ng. Let's assume that a smoker uses 20 of these per day. That's 110,000 ng.

110000 / 24 = 4583

 

[thephoenix]

i'm trying to dig up the article now...but the amount of TSNAs found in the cartridges is less than what's in FDA approved patches & gums...

and let's not forget that not all of what is in the liquid reaches the user - some of it is headed off in the vaping process...

how much TSNAs did they find in the vapor? that's the real question.

 

[Thulium]

how much TSNAs did they find in the vapor? that's the real question.

The answer from the FDA report: "Screening for the possible tobacco specific impurities cotinine, nicotine-N-oxide, nornicotine, anabasine and myosmine was negative."

 

[JustJulie]

The Court of Appeals accepted SE's voluntary dismissal. (No surprise there )

 

[JerryRM]

Thank you Julie.

 

[JustJulie]

Love the new avatar, Jerry.

Kõik on vaikne.

For those who don't speak Estonian, all is quiet.

And, as always, you are very welcome, Jerry.

 

[DaveP]

This may be a last minute win if we depend on the news media to report accurately. Publicity before and during the case should rise sharply. The truth has been skewed by the FDA report and they emphasized the negatives, which were actually positives.

The truth is that the DEG was an anomaly and the nitrosamines were far less than well done meat yields and only a minute fraction of the tobacco cigarette. They were, nevertheless, able to accurately report that ecigs contain a component of antifreeze and nitrosamines.

The whole incident smells of an agenda with a back story. I'd like to understand the background discussion that prompted the FDA to seize the ecig shipment at the dock. Somewhere, there was a conversation that prompted them to move and it sounds like they were encouraged to find something wrong with the juice and the operation of the ecig. I hope that multiple labs have been employed by Ruan and their testing methods are golden.

The "appeals to kids" aspect of the story is pretty weak, IMHO. There are cherry tobacco products already on the market, as well as chocolate flavored analogs. Those are now banned by the FDA as of last September.
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm183211.htm
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/rjr_candy_cigarettes.html

 

[JerryRM]

Thank you again, Julie. Since I am one of the snails, I thought that a smiling snail would be an appropriate avatar.

 

[Vocalek]

i'm trying to dig up the article now...but the amount of TSNAs found in the cartridges is less than what's in FDA approved patches & gums...

and let's not forget that not all of what is in the liquid reaches the user - some of it is headed off in the vaping process...

how much TSNAs did they find in the vapor? that's the real question.

The FDA only reported that they found TSNAs in the cartridges. There was no mention of TSNAs in the vapor, and their lab report doesn't tell us whether they looked or not. If they didn't look, shame on them! Did they think we drink the contents of the carts? The only thing truly important is what's in the vapor.

Soterra (dba NJOY) commissioned an independent study. Here's the report: http://www.casaa.org/files/Study_TSNAs_in_NJOY_Vapor.pdf

They found only one of the 4 TSNAs, "NAT", in the vapor, and that particular one has never been shown to cause cancer.

 

[Bill Godshall]

While there is an important need to compare the levels of nicotine, nitrosamines and other things CONSUMED BY NRT users, e-cigarette users, smokeless tobacco users and cigarette smokers, we need to be careful when doing comparisons of different products.

The amount of nicotine, nitrosamines and other things CONTAINED IN various tobacco/nicotine products isn't necessarily related to the amount of those things CONSUMED BY the product users.

For example, while some smokeless tobacco products contain higher levels of some nitrosamines than many unburned cigarettes (which has been cited by harm reduction opponents to mislead the public), daily cigarette smoking poses far greater cancer risks than daily smokeless tobacco use (due to the inhalation of lots of smoke).

 

[JustJulie]

No movement on the docket.

Fair warning . . . both Treece and I are taking the day off Friday to play at Midwest Vapefest in St. Louis, so there likely won't be a docket update on Friday. My guess is nothing will get filed, but if it does, I'll update over the weekend.

 

[JerryRM]

Thanks and enjoy the vapefest, Julie.

 

[JustJulie]

No movement on the docket. Shocking, I know.



And thanks for the good wishes on a fun time at Vapefest, Jerry. It's looking like attendance is going to be pretty amazing--estimates are hitting 200, possibly more. I hope the sponsors of Vapefest make a pile of $ for the IVAQ Study.

 

[JerryRM]

No movement on the docket. Shocking, I know.



And thanks for the good wishes on a fun time at Vapefest, Jerry. It's looking like attendance is going to be pretty amazing--estimates are hitting 200, possibly more. I hope the sponsors of Vapefest make a pile of $ for the IVAQ Study.

I hope so too, Julie. Thanks for the update.

 

[JustJulie]

No movement on the docket . . . there will be no update tomorrow because Treece and I are both taking a vacation and heading off to Midwest Vapefest.

 

[Vocalek]

Vape Strong, Ladies.

 

[JerryRM]

No movement on the docket . . . there will be no update tomorrow because Treece and I are both taking a vacation and heading off to Midwest Vapefest.

Therefore, it seems logical to conclude, that something earth shattering will happen on the e-cig front tomorrow and we won't know about it, until Monday.
Thank you, Julie and again have a good time.