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Should CBD Vaping Oils Be Examined More Closely?

Discussion in 'General Cannabis Discussion' started by Jazzman, Oct 3, 2019.

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  1. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    With the boom of CBD, in all its forms, becoming pervasive and in common use today should we take a closer look at the vaping sector of CBD as it pertains to current lung sicknesses and deaths?

    At least the hemp extracted variety of CBD has been legal federally since last year with little to no regulation or guidance. It also has widespread and pervasive promises of health benefits by "Wellness" type sites extolling its many virtues and imagined cures from numerous medical conditions and diseases, and since extracted CBD is a very thick substance, a thinning agent needs to be added for it to be used for vaping. Oddly enough, many CBD sites are giving strict warnings that VG and PG should not be used for this purpose since there are known toxicological problems with these ingredients when heated above 450F in the form of dangerous aldehyde production. The answer for most of these sites is to use hemp seed oil as the carrier agent. Is this safe? Is it OK to have a CBD oil and hemp seed oil as the basis for a healthy vaping product or is this something that should be examined as a legitimate concern. I do find it concerning that CBD vape products are most typically labeled as CBD Vape Oils.

    It does make me wonder if this booming industry has been examined in relation to the current lung issues associated with THC and nicotine vaping. I just haven't seen much discussion or news articles asking the question or examining the issue at all and it just seems reasonable to extend the investigation in this direction as well. When I see oil being used to thin oil in a vaping product I do have some concerns that I think needs to be examined.

    Were CBD vaping products part of the patient and family questioning, and if so were the actual products used tested and evaluated? I have found some rare mentions of CBD in a very few articles, but they were just a three letter acronym at the end of nicotine and THC vaping with no further mention or discussion while nicotine and THC were discussed in depth.

    I have no idea if this is relevant or important, but without investigation it seems to me that confirmation bias is still the main motivation for this investigation currently.
     
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  2. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    Only if you plan to use it in a cartridge or an e cigarette.
    Pure oleoresin CBD can be vaped without dilution.
    Imo, CBD flowers or pure CBD oleoresin are the only two forms that should be vaped.

    It is for convenience that carriers are added to facilitate using CBD in cartridges and vape pens.
    If the carriers are not needed, then they can and should be avoided.

    As I have said before:
    Don't vape carts!

    A little dab'll do ya.

    Cheers
    I
     
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  3. icepickmaker84

    icepickmaker84 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2019
    Indiana
    “A little dab’ll do ya.” Told my wife that a time or two, she doesn’t listen ha ha. I use carts throughout the day because they’re easier than getting the nectar collector out but I get them straight from the lab of my long time herbalist.
     
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  4. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    I don't care you are... that's some funny stuff right there.

    About the rest of your post, I was referencing the prevalent vaping method for CBD, which is pre-made cartridges and home made liquids, and if there are inherent dangers. But I do agree there are better methods that are probably much safer.
     
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  5. Haktuspit

    Haktuspit Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 13, 2013
    Denver, CO
    I've said this before but I'll stop vaping carts when a single dispensary sold cart can be tied to health problems in Denver.

    As far as CBD goes as you said there hasn't been one article implicating CBD in the lung scare so I don't see any reason to be concerned.
     
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  6. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    I agree completely!
    If we blindly accept the use of additives, we compromise our safety.
    Often sacrifices made for convenience, snowball quickly.

    Cheers
    I
     
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  7. englishmick

    englishmick Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 25, 2014
    Naptown, Indiana
    You can buy it in a base of PG, VG or both. Other sellers use a variety of different bases, some of which I never heard of before. Some of them boast that their product is PG and VG free. Some of them don't provide any information at all.

    You really have to have your wits about you when you buy that stuff.
     
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  8. Tabac man

    Tabac man Super Member

    May 24, 2019
    London
    So can anybody enlighten the OP about vaping Hemp seed oil? It may well have been vaped for years but that don't necessarily mean it's ok. I smoked for years.
     
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  9. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    It’s not the CBD part that is giving people pause here, it’s the “oil” part I think.
     
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  10. icepickmaker84

    icepickmaker84 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2019
    Indiana
    My 2 cents. I’ve vaped cbd in two different forms, vape juice and shatter. The vape juice was 50/50 pg/vg and was pretty effective, the shatter while also effective tastes like stems and seeds. Never tried hemp seed oil.
     
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  11. classwife

    classwife Admin Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Moved to General Cannabis Discussion Forum
     
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  12. vaper1960

    vaper1960 Vaping Master

    Apr 24, 2019
    California, US
    Here in California, vaping cannabis is common. Many formulations have CBD and THC (just like the actual flower that you smoke) It will have percentages (like we do with VG/PG ratios) Myself, I would vape the CBD isolate with VG/PG, but I have occasionally taken a couple "hits" of the carts that may have oils. I'm rethinking that. They are legit carts for sure. Also, I believe cannabis flowers (buds) naturally have some oils. I have taken CBD orally and found it a very helpful medicine. THC is also useful medicine for different ailments, but there is something called moderation and really strong stuff overdone will freak you out (especially if you are not used to it. Edibles made from cannabis are great, but the effects come on slowly (combined with the "munchies") and it is very common that people eat more before it really kicks in. I went to high school in the late 70's and they did a unofficial survey that showed 70% of seniors smoked cannabis (ahh... the good old days)
     
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  13. Tabac man

    Tabac man Super Member

    May 24, 2019
    London
    Back in the day I ate hash. Different kinda stone.
     
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  14. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I personally feel that most reputable dispensaries carry reputable products (they have to they are licensed, well the well reviewed ones tend to.)

    The problem with the skyrocketing "ways' to ingest cannabis and all its byproducts is they certainly bring advancements and refinements but you are also on the "bleeding edge" so to speak.

    I pretty much knew what I was getting as a teen and yes a hash/bud joint is just lovely. LOL I should report that like, the father of my dear child, before things just got so messy would come visit me EVERY weekend, and hand me a cigarette pack full of those things. I wrote the majority of my two (HONORS DISTICTION mind you but it was English and Philosophy, come on) well a great deal of them were written under the influence. Sadly, I have lost them along the way, and I remember they were pretty excellent in this hazy way.

    I guess I'm trying to say not ANYTHING is all good or all bad but like, do your due diligence as much as you can or whatever.

    CBD is not regulated in many states. It can be "purchased" in almost any form, with no real testing at all despite what is emblazoned on the bottle. I would be more frightened of vaping CBD than vaping THC cartridges simply because in my state anyway one is regulated and one is not.

    IMHO the THC vaping oils, shatter, wax deal kind of exploded FAST. I'm starting to believe you will be able to buy THC infused toilet paper soon and as it touches your delicate membranes you will feel a subtle but effective high the way things are going. And along the way mistakes will be made, CBD popcorn lung will kill you and etc. It is PART of the process, regulation or not. It's called refinement.

    REGULATION is designed to make sure you will not die off in a SHARP sudden BURST, much as new drugs are released after 12 week long tests. THEN the government (is supposed to) monitor and at least like, YANK something if it is having adverse effects (including deaths.)

    I still mourn Seldane. But anyway.

    SO, UNREGULATED though , you could be getting snake oil.

    That is why you don't buy your liquid ANYTHING from the guy down on the corner.

    That is why you stay up to date on things.

    This is ALSO why I will ALWAYS try a generic drug over a new one if I can possibly do so: I have been BURNED by new drugs, one quite literally-- I got SJS and wound up on the damn burn unit. Skin regrowth is fairly painful.

    And the thing is... A TON of the older stuff is better ANYWAY. CBD is for health nut freaks who want some benefit and no high or who are having pain/inflammation but are drug tested at work. Whole cannabis is MUCH more effective. Lithium works better than 90% of the bipolar drugs on the marker as do others. Some TYPICAL antipsychotics are better than the ATYPICALS. While the TCAs and the MAOIs are FAR HARSHER in side effects, they compare ABSOLUTELY favorably to the SSRIs which I would say are 100% placebo only I go nuts 100% of the time if I take one about 2 weeks in, so they are doing something, but not always a LOT of what I want.

    A lot of "newer, better, faster, more" is driven by patent expiration not JUST "is this actually a bitter drug?" It is often NOT and docs are not educated in school regarding the stone ages.


    Due diligence. Caveat Emptor.

    Also, there are times that not having something at all is better than a contaminated something. Usually, as it happens.

    Anna
     
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  15. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    As to the efficaciousness of ssris and Maois and such, it’s dependent on particular users and particular problems. If an SRI beats an SSRI for you it means that particular SSRI isn’t hitting the right bits for you. This is why psychopharmacologists often prescribe drug after drug. Different people have different issues. Often the only way to see if something works or not is to try it.

    I would personally go with a branded version of an older drug that has already gone generic over a true generic because it will have more accurate composition, but I agree heartily that newer doesn’t necessarily mean better. It just means there is more marketing money backing it at the moment. The brand new stuff is often not that good, and not infrequently is worse than older stuff.
     
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  16. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Yes. I know. I have tried most things. That's the only way to find out. I l always say there are clinical trials going on across the land. Every time ANY new drug meets a new brain it is a COMPLETE experiment.

    I am fairly certain that jacking with my serotonin is not the way to go, at lease with the SSRIs. Using Stolon for a while (French drug_ cemented it for me, it actually down regulates serotonin in a mysterious way but also boosts glutamate signaling in the brain

    The best cheapest option as far as generics is to find out who makes the drug, find out which pharmacy will stock that particular generic (a lot of them will) and then get the "real" drug at generic prices.

    Almost always, a drug manufacturer will come out with the first generic and continue to make it, because they're still doing market share.

    It's really often worth it to Just Find Out because most health insurance plans require prior auths, not to mention you pay through the nose for brand generic..

    But enough out of me for no. I've forgotten more about meds most people actually know.

    Anna
     
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  17. Vapntime

    Vapntime Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 22, 2013
    Brisbane, Australia
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  18. amoret

    amoret Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 2, 2013
    Sharon, ND, USA
    I was annoyed that after going through Stevens Johnson (2 weeks in ICU) my skin grew back just as old and wrinkled as it was to start with. I figured I should have at least had some benefit.
    :D

    I ended up with a combination that works perfectly for me by trying to quit smoking. Buproprion (Welbutrin) was not originally labeled for smoking cessation, but I had read about enough good results that I wanted to try. My psychiatrist at the time was willing to write an Rx for me.
    It didn't work on the smoking (had to wait for vaping for that) but in combination with the sertraline I'd been taking it tipped me over from just getting by to feeling and reacting to the world (and testing) like normal, not depressed people. Over the last 20 years we've tried phasing one or the other out, but for me it's just the combination that works that well.
     
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  19. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Zoloft AND Wellbutrin. That’s a combo I’ve never heard of before. I can see that one punching your libido right in the kidneys. Still, some things are worth it
     
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  20. amoret

    amoret Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 2, 2013
    Sharon, ND, USA
    The side effects aren't nearly as bad as the depression was (is - lifetime for me).
     
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