Should Electronic Cigarettes be Regulated as a Medicine? Like the Nicotrol Inhaler or the Nicotine Patches and Gums?

[Lessifer]

Imposed regulation vs self regulation

An exemple of self regulation that fell flat : It would have been helpful to all vapers and it would have put pressure on vendors to clean their act. It did not get enough support from ecf members to fly; http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...discussion/604550-tested-e-juice-vendors.html

The timing just may not be right for something like this. While I do think flavorings are a source for concern, we don't know for certain what is and what isn't harmful in the way that we are using it. Diacetyl can be harmful, but at what levels, and how often do I have to vape at my particular setup to reach those levels. Just telling me something is present isn't good enough. And who is to say that diketones are the only cause for concern? I am aware that I am taking risks when I vape, and I am choosing which risks I find acceptable. There are a lot of unknowns, and I for one feel that the market needs to be free enough for it all to be explored.

 

[beckdg]

I for one feel that the market needs to be free enough for it all to be explored.

huge implications embedded in that little statement. i totally agree.

 

[sub4me]

The timing just may not be right for something like this. While I do think flavorings are a source for concern, we don't know for certain what is and what isn't harmful in the way that we are using it. Diacetyl can be harmful, but at what levels, and how often do I have to vape at my particular setup to reach those levels. Just telling me something is present isn't good enough. And who is to say that diketones are the only cause for concern? I am aware that I am taking risks when I vape, and I am choosing which risks I find acceptable. There are a lot of unknowns, and I for one feel that the market needs to be free enough for it all to be explored.

This is one among many of the big concerns. The safety of vaping, the unknown chemicals used, and the long term impact of those unknown chemicals.

I get tired of guys who say they know what's in their liquid. Now don't get me wrong I'm sure many think they know but in reality they really don't know. But I mix it myself they say. I say so what?? The fact is you only know what you've been led to believe your buying and then mixing. You do not know what actual chemicals besides maybe pg and vg are being used you can't even be sure of those levels. You have no idea of where the flavorings came from, how they where made or what chemicals those flavorings contain, not mention you have no knowledge of the source or quality level of the Nicotine you bought online is. These are just some of the reasons why liquids and hardware need to be regulated. The general public needs to be confident that the product their buying isn't gonna make them sick or worse, they need to know the latest battery the shop owner pushed on them as the best isn't going to explode or burn their house down as they sleep. These aren't unwarranted concerns they are very real and a open market without any oversight is trouble for consumers who believe since its available at the drug store it must be safe. Remember everyone using a ecig isn't goona research it, no their gonna buy it and use it assuming its a safe product and perhaps never even see the tiny print on the bottle that's says made in China in sub standards conditions.

 

[beckdg]

This is one among many of the big concerns. The safety of vaping, the unknown chemicals used, and the long term impact of those unknown chemicals.

I get tired of guys who say they know what's in their liquid. Now don't get me wrong I'm sure many think they know but in reality they really don't know. But I mix it myself they say. I say so what?? The fact is you only know what you've been led to believe your buying and then mixing. You do not know what actual chemicals besides maybe pg and vg are being used you can't even be sure of those levels. You have no idea of where the flavorings came from, how they where made or what chemicals those flavorings contain, not mention you have no knowledge of the source or quality level of the Nicotine you bought online is. These are just some of the reasons why liquids and hardware need to be regulated. The general public needs to be confident that the product their buying isn't gonna make them sick or worse, they need to know the latest battery the shop owner pushed on them as the best isn't going to explode or burn their house down as they sleep. These aren't unwarranted concerns they are very real and a open market without any oversight is trouble for consumers who believe since its available at the drug store it must be safe. Remember everyone using a ecig isn't goona research it, no their gonna buy it and use it assuming its a safe product and perhaps never even see the tiny print on the bottle that's says made in China in sub standards conditions.

i can't say i completely disagree with you. other than i've never seen a made in china sticker that freely admits the sub standard conditions.

but what do you suppose we do for the next 5 to 20 yrs it takes to approve each ingredient?

 

[sub4me]

I posted the answer to your question back a few pages.

 

[beckdg]

I posted the answer to your question back a few pages.

that's not very sporting. help a brother out, would ya?

 

[Rossum]

but what do you suppose we do for the next 5 to 20 yrs it takes to approve each ingredient?

Use your stockpile. You do have one don't you? 'Cause if sub4me gets what he wants, you're gonna need it!

 

[PapaSloth]

Of course, the real problem with regulation is that VG converts to acetoin at 280C, and acetoin is a toxic irritant. So, nothing we vape will be considered safe by the FDA, whether it has flavors in it, or nic, or is just plain old VG. So, it will be the government's "duty" to "protect" us from vaping anything at all, not just the things we personally think are "harmful."

What I want to know is, when exactly did the US become a country where our government decided we were too stupid or irresponsible to make our own decisions? When I was a kid, part of the attraction of growing up was that when you hit a certain age, you got to make your own decisions (for the most part). That seems to be an old-fashioned attitude, nowadays. Welcome to the nanny state.

 

[readeuler]

This is one among many of the big concerns. The safety of vaping, the unknown chemicals used, and the long term impact of those unknown chemicals.

I get tired of guys who say they know what's in their liquid. Now don't get me wrong I'm sure many think they know but in reality they really don't know. But I mix it myself they say. I say so what?? The fact is you only know what you've been led to believe your buying and then mixing. You do not know what actual chemicals besides maybe pg and vg are being used you can't even be sure of those levels. You have no idea of where the flavorings came from, how they where made or what chemicals those flavorings contain, not mention you have no knowledge of the source or quality level of the Nicotine you bought online is. These are just some of the reasons why liquids and hardware need to be regulated. The general public needs to be confident that the product their buying isn't gonna make them sick or worse, they need to know the latest battery the shop owner pushed on them as the best isn't going to explode or burn their house down as they sleep. These aren't unwarranted concerns they are very real and a open market without any oversight is trouble for consumers who believe since its available at the drug store it must be safe. Remember everyone using a ecig isn't goona research it, no their gonna buy it and use it assuming its a safe product and perhaps never even see the tiny print on the bottle that's says made in China in sub standards conditions.

TFA is actually very good about putting the full MSDS sheets on their website, Perfumer's Apprentice - Spec Sheets, complete with CAS Numbers.

But I'm not a chemist, so it's quite literally useless information, to me, that the Vanilla Swirl flavor contains 2-Ethyl-3-hydroxy-4-pyrone.

My issue is that the current regulatory environment is populated with individuals that appear neither very sophisticated nor caring. If you've listened to any of the FDA webcasts, they invited a really ignorant group of speakers to "inform" them (very smart individuals, I'm sure, but largely devoid of knowledge about e-cigarettes). This is what frightens me. Not only were they ignorant, but they wanted really absurd things out of e-cigarettes. If it were up to these people, no sponges would be sold unless they fell apart with the first trace of mildew, because I'm not smart enough to discontinue using a moldy sponge. That was my take away.

I very much want the science to get sorted out, but I do feel it's putting the cart before the horse for the FDA to take the reigns and then expect them to sort out the science of vape safety in an informed and unbiased way. It seems to me that, as Lessifer fears as well, there is a real possibility that they will significantly alter the market before a lot of good science can come to light, and not in a good way.

 

[sub4me]

that's not very sporting. help a brother out, would ya?

I think you quoted it so its easy to find.

 

[sub4me]

Use your stockpile. You do have one don't you? 'Cause if sub4me gets what he wants, you're gonna need it!

Its not about what I want, its about what the FDA wants and will approve.

 

[Rossum]

Its not about what I want, its about what the FDA wants and will approve.

If it's not what you want, why is it that you seem to be cheering it on?

 

[sub4me]

If it's not what you want, why is it that you seem to be cheering it on?

Why are you not??

 

[zoiDman]

 

[Rossum]

No, I've stated quite clearly on numerous occasions that I'm opposed to regulations in general and the currently proposed "Deeming" in specific.

 

[beckdg]

Use your stockpile. You do have one don't you?

just a few liters... and what's in the mail.

 

[Rossum]

Ohh.. VT nic. That's good stuff!

 

[sub4me]

No, I've stated quite clearly on numerous occasions that I'm opposed to regulations in general and the currently proposed "Deeming" in specific.

That's fine and you have every right to your position. I'm just not clear why some would cheerlead to let manufactures do whatever they want withthout restrictions considering the products are being ingested and touted as safe.

 

[beckdg]

Ohh.. VT nic. That's good stuff!

got my vote.

 

[beckdg]

those.
last.
questions.

scare me.....