Should Electronic Cigarettes be Regulated as a Medicine? Like the Nicotrol Inhaler or the Nicotine Patches and Gums?

[sub4me]

Jman, I may not agree with the your posted benefits but you have the right to believe it.

 

[sub4me]

Not speculation. Its the rules of the tobacco Control Act which eCigarettes will be part of. You are going off of opinion. I'm stating fact. Have you even bothered reading any of the proposed law? Or just the edited ANTZ version?

Proposed. Not yet law, undecided

 

[PapaSloth]

Useful to me would be that fellow vapers some hating on BT and vocalize that if vaping is banned they will be forced to go back to smoking and subject to imminent death from the regulators / murderers. If just a few have thought twice about such rhetoric, especially those that write up CTA's, then I think this has been a useful discussion.

But in the event that a vaper does feel need to vocalize such things, I may again feel need to enter into such a discussion to note how utterly useless it is to make such immature statements and the political ramifications they carry with them.

OK, on this specific topic, you don't agree with the causal connection that:
banning vaping -> people smoking -> death
Because you don't agree that people will start smoking again if vaping is banned, and you don't agree that smoking causes health issues that lead to death. Both of these positions are "religious," in the sense that ultimately you believe what you believe, and no one can convince you differently, because any evidence that contradicts these beliefs is obviously faulty (it must be, because it disagrees with your beliefs). The same is true for me. Without changing these assumptions, the conclusion can never change, and there is no way to change these assumptions. So, the discussion is essentially pointless, and will only lead to more argument.

Ultimately, we both have strong rationalizations for our respective beliefs based on our addictive processes. Believing that there is no relationship between banning vaping and people smoking helps to reinforce your addictive process, while believing the opposite is true for where I am in the addictive process. Same with the relationship between smoking and death. So, as addicts, we will never agree on this.

 

[Oberon75]

Proposed. Not yet law, undecided

Not law yet but it's exactly what you are promoting.

 

[zoiDman]

As I've noted before, all a company (or 20) has to do is advertise as "non-BT vapes" and they'd be making billions their first year and possibly trillions by year 10. Because of how utterly lucrative this could forever be, there would be no incentive to sell out to BT. Arguably they could make more money than BT combined.

So all a Company needs to do, in a FDA Regulated Market, is put a "non-BT vapes" banner on their web site (I Mean, B&M - Because Internet Sales are Going Bye-Bye) and the Profits come Rolling In.

Seems a Little Simplest to me?

 

[skoony]

OK, on this specific topic, you don't agree with the causal connection that:
banning vaping -> people smoking -> death
Because you don't agree that people will start smoking again if vaping is banned, and you don't agree that smoking causes health issues that lead to death. Both of these positions are "religious," in the sense that ultimately you believe what you believe, and no one can convince you differently, because any evidence that contradicts these beliefs is obviously faulty (it must be, because it disagrees with your beliefs). The same is true for me. Without changing these assumptions, the conclusion can never change, and there is no way to change these assumptions. So, the discussion is essentially pointless, and will only lead to more argument.

Ultimately, we both have strong rationalizations for our respective beliefs based on our addictive processes. Believing that there is no relationship between banning vaping and people smoking helps to reinforce your addictive process, while believing the opposite is true for where I am in the addictive process. Same with the relationship between smoking and death. So, as addicts, we will never agree on this.

i for one am a vaper and not an addict in the legal or medical
definition of the term.

regards
mike

 

[VapinWolf]

Pipe tobacco, tubes and rolling machines aren't illegal; neither is SYO cigarettes. Now, if someone sells SYO packs, yes it is a black market activity, but their business exists simply because others are too lazy to stuff their own, not because pipe tobacco, tubes and rolling machines are illegal...

I take it you have never held a license to resell issued by the ATF. The rules and regs are very detailed and strictly enforced. You can be fined, lose your business license, and even imprisoned for activities beyond your control. Currently the states are using genuine photo ID machines to create 'fake' ID'S for those underage and punishing anyone who sells to them. (How can it be fake if it is real???)
In many ways the black market is better...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[zoiDman]

Proposed. Not yet law, undecided

Not law yet but it's exactly what you are promoting.

Correct Me if I'm Wrong.

But Isn't this a Current Law?

Overview of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act: Consumer Fact Sheet

It only needs an Agency to Implement and Enforce the Law.

Enter the FDA Stage Left.

 

[PapaSloth]

i for one am a vaper and not an addict in the legal or medical
definition of the term.

regards
mike

I'm glad for you. Really. You'll have no problem quitting if vaping is banned. I, on the other hand, am an addict and will likely have problems.

 

[skoony]

I take it you have never held a license to resell issued by the ATF. The rules and regs are very detailed and strictly enforced. You can be fined, lose your business license, and even imprisoned for activities beyond your control. Currently the states are using genuine photo ID machines to create 'fake' ID'S for those underage and punishing anyone who sells to them. (How can it be fake if it is real???)
In many ways the black market is better...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

what states allow that? at least here the law is not asking
to see an i.d.

mike

 

[Oberon75]

Correct Me if I'm Wrong.

But Isn't this a Current Law?

Overview of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act: Consumer Fact Sheet

It only needs an Agency to Implement and Enforce the Law.

Enter the FDA Stage Left.

Pretty much. Vaping hasn't been added yet but it's on its way. This is not a law to make anything safer. This is only a law that makes companies disclose their ingredients while paying a massive fee that only a giant corporation can afford.

 

[Oberon75]

I'm glad for you. Really. You'll have no problem quitting if vaping is banned. I, on the other hand, am an addict and will likely have problems.

If I'm not able to obtain a nicotine base for DIY, I'll be back smoking cigarettes the moment my last drop of liquid is gone.

 

[beckdg]

Don't you think something should be done to prevent obesity in our society.

Yes.

But portion control is as far from the answer as one can get.

I'll just buy 2 coffees and make more waste to clean up.

Sent from my device.

 

[PapaSloth]

If I'm not able to obtain a nicotine base for DIY, I'll be back smoking cigarettes the moment my last drop of liquid is gone.

I have another liter of 100mg/ml nic base arriving today. I already have a space reserved for it in the freezer.

 

[skoony]

I'm glad for you. Really. You'll have no problem quitting if vaping is banned. I, on the other hand, am an addict and will likely have problems.

your not by any legal or medical definition.
seriously,that's what all the ANTZ enslaving
another generation to nicotine addiction is
all about.linking vaping with drug addiction
and all the emotional baggage and mental
imagery involved with it.
regards
mike

 

[Tangaroav]

i for one am a vaper and not an addict in the legal or medical
definition of the term.

regards
mike

Denial is one of the symptoms

 

[zoiDman]

Pretty much. Vaping hasn't been added yet but it's on its way. This is not a law to make anything safer. This is only a law that makes companies disclose their ingredients while paying a massive fee that only a giant corporation can afford.

Believe it or Not. I think, in the Long Haul, that a Regulated e-Liquid Market will make the Overall use of e-Liquids "Safer".

Unfortunately, that will Not Be the Only Ramification of Deeming e-Liquids (that contain Nicotine derived from Tobacco Plants) a Tobacco Product.

And 1 Good Thing and 99 Bad Things Doesn't mean I'm in favor of FDA Regulations in Totality.

 

[PapaSloth]

Denial is one of the symptoms

• Problem? WHAT problem?
  Primitive and unconscious denial is classified as a psychotic defense mechanism because it denies or distorts reality itself. Those in the grip of psychotic denial are literally out of touch with reality. Thus an alcoholic with multiple and perfectly obvious negative consequences from his pathological drinking(legal, health, marital and job problems) may, difficult as this is to believe, indignantly and -from his perspective- honestly deny that he has a serious problem with alcohol. He doesn't know what people who criticize his drinking are talking about - and he is genuinely hurt and offended at what he perceives to be their unfair and unreasonable attacks upon him. He often reacts to expressions of concern about his drinking with self-pity, resentment, and -of course- more drinking.
• I'm not THAT bad!
  Minimization and downplaying of the problems connected with addiction fill in the gaps and take up the slack left by the failure of psychotic denial to adjust reality completely to the requirements of the addiction. The addict admits that difficulties exist - but he stoutly maintains, frequently in the face of an astonishing and rapidly accumulating mountain of evidence to the contrary, that they are not really as bad as others make them out to be.

 

[Tangaroav]

If I'm not able to obtain a nicotine base for DIY, I'll be back smoking cigarettes the moment my last drop of liquid is gone.

This is the case for many here. It is sad.

I would recommend that if one feels like that, one should start working of treating this addiction.

 

[zoiDman]

If I'm not able to obtain a nicotine base for DIY, I'll be back smoking cigarettes the moment my last drop of liquid is gone.

Why Not?

??????????????