Should vendors pre-steep their e-liquid?

[DoubleEwe]

What do people think, should vendors pre-steep their e-liquid before sending them to you?

I am in the 'yes they should!' camp.

Reasons For Pre-Steeping:

1) You ensure that the customer tastes the juice the way that you intended it to taste.
- If they vape it before it is in it's prime then they are going to get a false impression of the juice, which may translate into a bad experience of that vendor's juices, meaning no repeat sales.

2) Customers no longer have to wait to vape it. Buy it today, vape it today. (or at least when the mail arrives)
-You don't have to plan your vaping a month ahead.

3) Empty bottles take up the same amount of space as full bottles.
(often the excuse for not pre-steeping is space) This may be an issue for those vendors that offer a vast range of PG/VG ratios, but not for the vendors that offer only 1 ratio.

Reasons Against:

1) You have to pre-mix juices rather than to order.
- May have juices on shelves for long periods if not sold. (May not be a problem if the juice gets better with age, but will be if flavour deteriorates with time? )


The reason for starting this thread was because I personally don't like having to order far in advance of my vaping needs, having to steep the juice myself despite having paid for someone to make it for me. It should be ready to vape as soon as it is delivered.
I see it as being like an online wine seller sending you grapes, yeast & sugar rather than the bottle of wine that you ordered.

Also it gives vendors a better chance of customers liking their juices and coming back to buy more. I am sure that the reason I have not liked some e-liquids in the past is due to judging them before they had time to reach their full potential (despite me letting them steep for up to a month before casting judgement).

Vendors need to realize that they only get one chance per customer and they need to make the most of that opportunity. Pre-steeping makes sure that they get a fair chance.

 

[supermarket]

The answer to your question isn't as simple as it would seem. Even you realize it isn't a simple yes or no answer, base on your own weighing in on the pros and cons of each decision.


In a perfect world, all e-liquid would be steeped and ready to vape as soon as the package arrives. However, one of the MAIN reasons companies don't steep their e-liquid, is because there are FAR, FAR too many factors and options that go into each person's e-liquid....which would make it practically impossible for the majority of vendors to prepare their e-liquid in advance.

The PG/VG options alone make steeping impossible for most vendors. Some vendors carry 50-100 e-liquids. Each e-liquid can have various PG/VG ratios, ALONG WITH various nicotine options.

I haven't done the math, but if you do, I'm willing to bet that a vendor carrying around 50 e-liquids, combined with every single PG/VG ratio option, AND the nicotine options could create well over 5,000+ combinations.

Can you imagine preparing 5,000 different e-liquids, just so people don't have to wait a week to steep their liquids? Where would the company have all the manpower to create 5,000 e-liquids in advance?


Now, SOME vendors, like my personal favorite, NiteLiteVapor, Do indeed steep their e-liquid. They are able to prepare their e-liquid in advance for TWO reasons. 1. They only carry a fraction of the e-liquids many vendors carry. I believe they have only 15 or so options, although each option is perfected to their liking. 2. They don't offer a PG/VG ratio option. ALl of their e-liquids have the same PG/VG ratio.

So, it is a trade off. If you want a vendor to steep their e-liquid in advance....they will most likely only be able to carry a handful of different juices, and they probably won't offer more than a few, if any, PG/VG ratio options.

 

[supermarket]

To the OP - hopefully after reading my post, it will help you understand why most vendors simply CAN'T steep their e-liquids for customers. Having said that, I have two things I can recommend for you:

1. Find vendors that DO steep their e-liquids. The company I mentioned above, NiteLiteVapor, is a fantastic example. There are many more, too.

2. Do what I do, and order your e-liquid in advance. I always order my e-liquid way in advance...while I'm still happily stocked from my last order...so that by the time I am ready to dig into it, it has already been sitting and steeping for a few weeks.

It might seem like a pain at first, but once you get in the habit of timing your orders, you never have to worry about steeping. By the time you open up your e-liquids, they've already been at your place for a few weeks, and therefore are good to go. Hope this helps!

 

[Harlen]

Yes
There are menny factors but as cheep as juice is to make they would be much better served if they did some one will and then when they have most of the sales you will see others start doing it too .

 

[GetVaked]

Yes. If it affects the advertised taste, yes they should.

 

[Desertfremen]

I've been vaping for almost 5 years and I will only buy presteeped juice. I am not going to buy a flavour and then wait to see how it develops. Many times I will like the juice FOOB and after it steeps it's disgusting. I did DIY for over 3 yrs as well and I ran into the same problem over and over again.

Out of the many things I have to worry about in my life, juice is not going to be one of them. I'm not going to make a list and waste a cabinet just to keep juice in back stock waiting for the day it finally turns good and then having to remember to order more just to keep the cycle going. No; not happening. BTDT; I'm over it and don't want the tshirt.

Until I stopped buying juices online, gave up DIY and restricted myself to B&M ready made only did I ever find juice that would stay consistent that I could vape the whole 30mL bottle and want another bottle afterwards.

 

[Gauntlgrym]

if the flavor is still good without steeping, then no.
however if it tastes like crap until steeped, then yes.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I am not new to vaping, so I am fully aware of the current need to factor in time for steeping, but what I am saying is that I should not have to plan in advance.

When you pay the premium for a service you expect the service to be complete, not part done. If I wanted to play with a remote control car then I would buy a fully complete, ready to go one, I would not buy a kit to make my own.

I did point out in my OP that it would be difficult for those vendors that offer a range of PG/VG ratios to do pre-steeping.

My post is more aimed at the higher end vendors, the ones that actually tailor the flavouring to their preferred PG/VG ratio to get the best from the blend, rather than the vendors that offer different PG/VG ratios, extra flavouring, 1000 different flavours, + menthol etc, as I would not expect them to be expensive nor fantastic.
The reason being that if you have a specific PG/VG ratio then you work with that to produce a specific taste which would not be the same if you altered the PG/VG ratio and kept the flavouring levels the same.
So, I would not expect greatness from a vendor that provides all the options under the sun simply because it is highly unlikely that they have come up with new recipes for each ratio of PG/VG that they offer. There may be exceptions, but I have not found any.

So, we are agreed that premium vendors that only offer a few flavours and only 1 PG/VG ratio should indeed be pre-steeping?
This is the point of my initial post, as stated above, the vendors that offer 100 flavours are likely to be cheap and 'you get what you pay for', but the premium vendors should be pre-steeping as a means to in some way justify the price difference & ensure the quality of the product received.

As for a way to reduce the amount of pre-made bottles of juice in different options...
Vendors can make up bottles 80% full, containing all the flavourings and a known PG/VG ratio. (left to steep)
The 20% is then added when the order comes in, this 20% being the nicotine + PG/VG to maintain the desired overall ratio when added to the 80%

 

[twgbonehead]

DoubleEwe,

Take your pick:
A vendor can offer a very limited selection of juice options, and pre-steep them.
Or, a vendor can offer lots of options including flavors, flavor shots, PG/VG ratios and nic levels, but has to make them fresh on order.

You can't have both. For the vendors that per-steep their liquids, you often see people complaining "I wish they made that in 12mg strength" or "I don't use them because I can only do 100% vg". Personally, I'd rather have the options.


Why not just look into the fast-steep methods? A crock-pot or UC steep doesn't take long.

 

[Desertfremen]

...

So, we are agreed that premium vendors that only offer a few flavours and only 1 PG/VG ratio should indeed be pre-steeping?
This is the point of my initial post, as stated above, the vendors that offer 100 flavours are likely to be cheap and 'you get what you pay for', but the premium vendors should be pre-steeping as a means to in some way justify the price difference & ensure the quality of the product received.

...

IA with this statement 100%.

 

[DoubleEwe]

DoubleEwe,

Take your pick:
A vendor can offer a very limited selection of juice options, and pre-steep them.
Or, a vendor can offer lots of options including flavors, flavor shots, PG/VG ratios and nic levels, but has to make them fresh on order.

You can't have both. For the vendors that per-steep their liquids, you often see people complaining "I wish they made that in 12mg strength" or "I don't use them because I can only do 100% vg". Personally, I'd rather have the options.


Why not just look into the fast-steep methods? A crock-pot or UC steep doesn't take long.

I pick fewer flavours pre-steeped please.

As I have said, I would much rather have the fewer flavours that are blended to perfection (and pre-steeped) rather than a million options for run-of-the-mill standard flavours.
I also mentioned that this post is more aimed at premium (boutique etc) vendors rather than the lower end of the juice market.

The problem is that the first option "A vendor can offer a very limited selection of juice options, and pre-steep them." seldom exists, even vendors with less than 10 flavours rarely pre-steep their juices.
I would not be posting this thread if they already did this.

I am also not complaining about lack of options because I know that the decent juices are tailored to their PG/VG ratio, so I would not expect them to cater for my specific needs if it requires them to rewrite their recipe for it. All I am asking is that the juices I pay a premium for arrive at my door ready to vape (and taste as they are meant to).

This makes sense for both the consumer and for the vendor. If I receive a juice and it tastes amazing right away then I am far more likely to reorder from that company (and try other flavours from them). If the juice does not taste great until 6 months after I receive it then it is likely that I would have already thrown it away (or vaped it) and would never order from that vendor again.

Crock-pot/UC should not be something that I have to do, if it does work then why don't the vendors just do that prior to shipping?
Then that is the best of both worlds, they can make to order (fresh) and pre-steep it, everyone is happy!
Even the 1000 flavour option vendors can do it.

 

[Rickajho]

Not gonna play. If you want everything, exactly as you want it, right now, open your own business. You people drive me nutz when this topic comes up. You want premium and custom options - but don't want the aging required to get custom options. Or you expect far too simplistically that liquids suppliers should just have everything on hand, all pre-mixed, in every conceivable combination of flavors, nic levels, PG/VG ratios and even bottle sizes - yet can't be bothered to do the math regarding the sheer magnitude of the inventory required to do that. And they should also monitor all that and throw out the inventory on a pre-destined date.

Ok, add in the extra personnel required to do all that, plus the inventory space, plus the presumed losses discarding "stale" inventory and.. congratulations. You have just tripled the cost of a bottle of liquid. Easy. But since people complain already that the price of liquids as-is is a total ripoff that won't work either.

You could always ask them to simply not send you your liquids for a week or two and hold onto it after it's mixed. But since people complain when an order doesn't go out the door within hours of hitting "submit" - nope that wold be a fail too.

If you don't like what the smaller custom places offer the answer is simple - don't buy it. Apparently they are damned if they offer custom options and damned if they don't. Beyond that there is always Dekang. Or better yet - unflavored.

 

[Jan Graskewicz]

On a limited budget (SSN ) and only buying once a month, stocking up to steep juices is not an option at this time. I buy three 30ml bottles a month. Not vaping for 30 days will be a plan I am not ready for.


Thank you for sharing with me.

 

[DoubleEwe]

Not gonna play. If you want everything, exactly as you want it, right now, open your own business. You people drive me nutz when this topic comes up. You want premium and custom options - but don't want the aging required to get custom options. Or you expect far too simplistically that liquids suppliers should just have everything on hand, all pre-mixed, in every conceivable combination of flavors, nic levels, PG/VG ratios and even bottle sizes - yet can't be bothered to do the math regarding the sheer magnitude of the inventory required to do that. And they should also monitor all that and throw out the inventory on a pre-destined date.

Ok, add in the extra personnel required to do all that, plus the inventory space, plus the presumed losses discarding "stale" inventory and.. congratulations. You have just tripled the cost of a bottle of liquid. Easy. But since people complain already that the price of liquids as-is is a total ripoff that won't work either.

You could always ask them to simply not send you your liquids for a week or two and hold onto it after it's mixed. But since people complain when an order doesn't go out the door within hours of hitting "submit" - nope that wold be a fail too.

If you don't like what the smaller custom places offer the answer is simple - don't buy it. Apparently they are damned if they offer custom options and damned if they don't. Beyond that there is always Dekang. Or better yet - unflavored.

Instead of 'not playing' you could try reading...

I will rewrite (once again), this post is not aimed at the low end of the market, the end where they stock 100 different flavours and allow you to pick PG/VG ratio or add flavour shots or menthol etc, as one would not expect the steeping service due to the low price and all the available options.
HOWEVER, IT IS AIMED AT THE PREMIUM VENDORS, the ones that only offer a small selection of flavours and only one PG/VG ratio.

The point of the thread (which has been written many times if you care to read it) is to gauge opinion on whether the premium/boutique vendors should pre-steep their liquid before they send it to you.

Your points are all valid, but not in this argument.
You are arguing points which have been made redundant due to clarification of the subject in question.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I wish they would put a "born on date" on the bottles. For popular flavors that sell quicker, I assume that they make a large batch (gallon) and then just use from it. But, flavors that don't sell often, the juice may steep to long for the intended flavor.

I really do appreciate a "born on date" of when it was mixed.

 

[TheProphet]

I would say no. Different people taste different things. What may taste great to you after 2 weeks of steeping may taste like crap to me until it hits a month. What tastes fantastic to me fresh out of the box may taste awful to you until a week later. Different people like different things, which is why steeping helps.

Look at Virus, from NT. Everyone has a different amount of steep time they put into it until it hits for them. If NT were to presteep it for, lets say, 3 weeks, they may miss out for everyone who's steep time that they like on their virus is 1-2 weeks, and also not be steeped enough for those people that like it after a month or longer.

 

[Richard JP]

Personally I wished everyone wouldn't use all these crazy acronyms,I can follow with the more common ones but there are those that can mean almost anything under the sun.For instance.PIWEWUATCA,ICFWTMCOBTATTCMAAUTS

 

[DoubleEwe]

I would say no. Different people taste different things. What may taste great to you after 2 weeks of steeping may taste like crap to me until it hits a month. What tastes fantastic to me fresh out of the box may taste awful to you until a week later. Different people like different things, which is why steeping helps.

Look at Virus, from NT. Everyone has a different amount of steep time they put into it until it hits for them. If NT were to presteep it for, lets say, 3 weeks, they may miss out for everyone who's steep time that they like on their virus is 1-2 weeks, and also not be steeped enough for those people that like it after a month or longer.

I am pretty sure that NT pre-steep to a certain extent before they send it out. They mix their juices in large(ish) batches and allow them to mature for a while before they are ready to send out.
Which is the reason that they only produced certain flavours at certain times, if they didn't pre-steep then they could have just offered all their flavours at all times (being mixed to order).

NT juices then develop further through extended steeping time (done when in your possession).

At least that is my understanding of how things are/were done at NT. Not sure how it is now that they are at their new bottling facility.

 

[DoubleEwe]

Personally I wished everyone wouldn't use all these crazy acronyms,I can follow with the more common ones but there are those that can mean almost anything under the sun.For instance.PIWEWUATCA,ICFWTMCOBTATTCMAAUTS

NT = nicoticket

As for the others, no clue. Probably insulting though.

 

[Richard JP]

Hope I didn't insult,but was just saying.I found myself googling some of these acronyms.