Should videos of minors vaping stay on youtube or be flagged and taken down?
- Thread starter VictoryNotVengence
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I believe that anything that truly happens can and should be recorded. When we start censoring out what we do not like, it does not go away, it goes underground. all removing these images would do is put the problem out of sight, and we know THAT'S no way to solve a problem. Instead we should address the issues involved with underage vaping.
Can't vote-
Cause I'm aware that "think of the kiddies" is one of the reasons people use as an argument to ban vaping. I'm aware that having these videos up harms our image as a community, the image of the products we use, and if it becomes widespread, will make a ban more likely. I want to do anything I can to make a ban LESS likely, cause frankly these things saved my life.
I'm also aware that in a lot of areas, sales to minors are not restricted. (Should be, if you ask me, but aren't.) And...if no laws are broken, I don't see any justification for flagging their videos. I spend a lot of time with teens, and they think (and they're right) that if they are acting within the bounds of the law, do-gooder adults who they've never met have no business telling them what to do. Clearly, this only applies in place where ecigs are not (yet) restricted age products. If there's an age ban in place, then it changes the picture.
I'm also of two minds- I started smoking around 15. It was illegal. BUT...I was hooked long before I was legal age to buy them. If ecigs had existed, and I'd wanted one (in order to quit or reduce the damage from smoking) shouldn't that have been an option?
One of the fundamental arguments of tobacco harm reduction is that reduced harm alternatives should be at least as available as the most harmful product, cigarettes. Until/unless we make some serious headway in making cigarettes unavailable to teens, I'm puzzled by the morality of trying to keep ecigs away from them.
I don't want my daughter to get hooked on anything, really. But if one day she does, I'd just as soon it was an ecig, not the other kind.
Best,
Ande
Cause I'm aware that "think of the kiddies" is one of the reasons people use as an argument to ban vaping. I'm aware that having these videos up harms our image as a community, the image of the products we use, and if it becomes widespread, will make a ban more likely. I want to do anything I can to make a ban LESS likely, cause frankly these things saved my life.
I'm also aware that in a lot of areas, sales to minors are not restricted. (Should be, if you ask me, but aren't.) And...if no laws are broken, I don't see any justification for flagging their videos. I spend a lot of time with teens, and they think (and they're right) that if they are acting within the bounds of the law, do-gooder adults who they've never met have no business telling them what to do. Clearly, this only applies in place where ecigs are not (yet) restricted age products. If there's an age ban in place, then it changes the picture.
I'm also of two minds- I started smoking around 15. It was illegal. BUT...I was hooked long before I was legal age to buy them. If ecigs had existed, and I'd wanted one (in order to quit or reduce the damage from smoking) shouldn't that have been an option?
One of the fundamental arguments of tobacco harm reduction is that reduced harm alternatives should be at least as available as the most harmful product, cigarettes. Until/unless we make some serious headway in making cigarettes unavailable to teens, I'm puzzled by the morality of trying to keep ecigs away from them.
I don't want my daughter to get hooked on anything, really. But if one day she does, I'd just as soon it was an ecig, not the other kind.
Best,
Ande
I meant to vote no. Nicotine is still a drug. Leaving videos of minors unflagged and posted, to me, condone the use of nicotine for minors. There is a reason you must be 18 to smoke AND vape (at least in the US. I dont know about other countries) I know that a lot of the vaping community wants to seperate the distiction between smoking and vaping, but in this case, I see that as a step backwards. Would you leave a video of a minor smoking unflagged? I wouldnt. Nor would I want to see my own kids vaping (or smoking). IT IS STILL A DRUG. And a very addictive one at that. It does not matter what form its being delivered.
Can't agree with you more hairball. I have a problem with minors smoking/vaping....period.
Anne
Anne
I think these kids videos should Stay so I voted Yes. These kids were Smokers who discovered vaping before it was too late for them. That's a good thing. They want to encourage their other teen smoker friends to quit smoking and start vaping. That's another good thing. We know vaping will be better for them in the long run.
YouTube TOS and The Law
Vaping on YouTube is not against the YouTube TOS, only smoking is. If we then say that vaping is the same as smoking are we not going against our tried and true stand on vaping that says "vaping is not smoking" - you cant have it both ways. We tell people vaping is not smoking all the time.. but wait.. vaping suddenly IS smoking when it comes to teen smokers? They are the people who need the e-cigs the most before it cigarettes do harm to them.
Underage smoking and vaping is not against the law in most places, only the sale of smoking and vaping materials to minors. The law says that if you are addicted to a legal substance you cannot be charged with a crime for using it - that substance becomes a medical necessity. These kids that were smokers and are now vapors, and not breaking the law.
Banning E-cigs
The above is why they will not, cannot use teen vaping as a reason to ban e-cigs. It does not hold up legally as a valid argument. The act of a teen vaping itself is not illegal in most places. Now, if your a vendor and your pushing vaping to minors, that is another story - that is not being done so there are no worries. Hundreds of thousands of teens smoke cigarettes all the time. This is illegal in very few places. They cannot purchase the cigarettes themselves but the act of them smoking it is not illegal for the most part.
With the understanding that teen vapers are making videos to help their friends get off of harmful cigarettes, the community as well as the law makers should praise these brave kids.
Do we desire to see new teens not vape or smoke at all? Some would say yes no teenagers should be vaping or smoking - why - where does that thinking come from? It comes from the nicotine is evil proponents that say nicotine is very bad for you. Now that it has been proven scientifically the nicotine in e-cigs are different than the nicotine in cigarettes that it is only mildly addictive with harmful side effects no more than general caffeine use, I would feel it's wrong to tell a teen who wants to smoke they cannot use an e-cig instead.
If my 15 year old teen daughter came to me and said she wanted to start smoking, I'd hand her a loaded PV quick. Better to squash that habit that I know will kill her for one that I know will not. I'd encourage her to tell all her friends who smoke about it too perhaps even post a few YouTube videos telling her friends how daddy's PV saved her from a life of smoking and all the horrible health and death related issues she avoided.
I further feel that flagging the teens videos by the e-cig community will alienate that teen from vaping and could cause them to slide back into smoking, a much more harmful habit.
I can find no good or valid argument for flagging teen vapers YouTube videos. Only negative not positive can come from that IMO.
YouTube TOS and The Law
Vaping on YouTube is not against the YouTube TOS, only smoking is. If we then say that vaping is the same as smoking are we not going against our tried and true stand on vaping that says "vaping is not smoking" - you cant have it both ways. We tell people vaping is not smoking all the time.. but wait.. vaping suddenly IS smoking when it comes to teen smokers? They are the people who need the e-cigs the most before it cigarettes do harm to them.
Underage smoking and vaping is not against the law in most places, only the sale of smoking and vaping materials to minors. The law says that if you are addicted to a legal substance you cannot be charged with a crime for using it - that substance becomes a medical necessity. These kids that were smokers and are now vapors, and not breaking the law.
Banning E-cigs
The above is why they will not, cannot use teen vaping as a reason to ban e-cigs. It does not hold up legally as a valid argument. The act of a teen vaping itself is not illegal in most places. Now, if your a vendor and your pushing vaping to minors, that is another story - that is not being done so there are no worries. Hundreds of thousands of teens smoke cigarettes all the time. This is illegal in very few places. They cannot purchase the cigarettes themselves but the act of them smoking it is not illegal for the most part.
With the understanding that teen vapers are making videos to help their friends get off of harmful cigarettes, the community as well as the law makers should praise these brave kids.
Do we desire to see new teens not vape or smoke at all? Some would say yes no teenagers should be vaping or smoking - why - where does that thinking come from? It comes from the nicotine is evil proponents that say nicotine is very bad for you. Now that it has been proven scientifically the nicotine in e-cigs are different than the nicotine in cigarettes that it is only mildly addictive with harmful side effects no more than general caffeine use, I would feel it's wrong to tell a teen who wants to smoke they cannot use an e-cig instead.
If my 15 year old teen daughter came to me and said she wanted to start smoking, I'd hand her a loaded PV quick. Better to squash that habit that I know will kill her for one that I know will not. I'd encourage her to tell all her friends who smoke about it too perhaps even post a few YouTube videos telling her friends how daddy's PV saved her from a life of smoking and all the horrible health and death related issues she avoided.
I further feel that flagging the teens videos by the e-cig community will alienate that teen from vaping and could cause them to slide back into smoking, a much more harmful habit.
I can find no good or valid argument for flagging teen vapers YouTube videos. Only negative not positive can come from that IMO.
Last edited:
For all you who see no harm in it, go a head and give the gov what they need to enforce the BS about them being marketed to kids and ban them. Quite honestly there's enough people on here that think ecigs can't be banned and that everyone should be allowed to use them regardless of the implications. If people don't pull they're head out and start thinking things through, ecigs are going to become a thing of the past real quick. I'm getting to the point I could care less, if ecigs are banned so what. I've been open minded enough to try snus, so I'll still have my nic.
They would have to prove in a court of law the e-cigs were being marketed to teens. The Gov in fact was on our side when the FDA tried to pull their last stunt and the courts ruled against the FDA's claims. Just the act of teens using a less harmful nicotine delivery system is not proof in itself that teens were being targeted by vendors. It is a testament in fact of the intelligence of the teen to switch to a less harmful alternative. These teens know whats better for them and they smartly choose vaping over continuing to smoke. I have thought this through plenty believe me. I believe your fears are unfounded but that's just my personal opinion based on my own research.
What would have us do, hurt the teens further by not allowing them to use e-cigs and force them to smoke deadly cancer sticks? To me the choice is clear. Are you saying it's o.k. for adult smokers to have a safer alternative to smoking but not for teen smokers? I'm trying to understand your point of view - what would you have the teen smokers do or not do and why?
To me, we need to fight for every smokers right, adult and teen alike. Heck I have seen videos on youtube of infants smoking cigarettes like a chimney - yes, infants. This kid had such bad parents they let the child smoke and he's like 4 years old. That kid needs e-cigs if he's addicted. It's said he smokes 40 cigarettes a day. Indonesian baby on 40 cigarettes a day - YouTube
Where do I draw the line? In some countries a 12 year old is considered an adult. Legal smoking age here used to be 18 when I was growing up. When they switched to 21 suddenly there were a lot of 18 year olds who could not legally purchase cigarettes. Most teens that start smoking are 15 and up so it makes since to me that 15 year olds by and large are old enough to make the choice to smoke or not - they feel they are ready for that decision and the responsibility that comes with it. And why not when 12 year olds in other countries have jobs and are married (and smoking) at 12. Hundreds of thousands of years of these kids in their communities have given them 12 year old is an adult status. Whats the difference between an American 15 year old and a 15 year old "adult" from somewhere else? Absolutely nothing. Mentally they have the same reasoning faculties the creator gave to man. It is only our "laws" that separate them. Is this fair when issues of health come into play? I think not, teen smokers are just as addicted as adult smokers and deserve the same help adults get to quit.
What would have us do, hurt the teens further by not allowing them to use e-cigs and force them to smoke deadly cancer sticks? To me the choice is clear. Are you saying it's o.k. for adult smokers to have a safer alternative to smoking but not for teen smokers? I'm trying to understand your point of view - what would you have the teen smokers do or not do and why?
To me, we need to fight for every smokers right, adult and teen alike. Heck I have seen videos on youtube of infants smoking cigarettes like a chimney - yes, infants. This kid had such bad parents they let the child smoke and he's like 4 years old. That kid needs e-cigs if he's addicted. It's said he smokes 40 cigarettes a day. Indonesian baby on 40 cigarettes a day - YouTube
Where do I draw the line? In some countries a 12 year old is considered an adult. Legal smoking age here used to be 18 when I was growing up. When they switched to 21 suddenly there were a lot of 18 year olds who could not legally purchase cigarettes. Most teens that start smoking are 15 and up so it makes since to me that 15 year olds by and large are old enough to make the choice to smoke or not - they feel they are ready for that decision and the responsibility that comes with it. And why not when 12 year olds in other countries have jobs and are married (and smoking) at 12. Hundreds of thousands of years of these kids in their communities have given them 12 year old is an adult status. Whats the difference between an American 15 year old and a 15 year old "adult" from somewhere else? Absolutely nothing. Mentally they have the same reasoning faculties the creator gave to man. It is only our "laws" that separate them. Is this fair when issues of health come into play? I think not, teen smokers are just as addicted as adult smokers and deserve the same help adults get to quit.
There are tons of videos of children smoking traditional cigarettes on youtube. They think they're being "cool" or whatever.
It's only natural to find videos by the underaged who have found a way to kick their stupid habit. I do not feel right in flagging them without proper rapport as to why they are being flagged. I don't feel right in flagging them at all. They are trying to quit smoking cigarettes and are excitedly showing other kids that they too can finally quit. They're on the rooftops with a good cause... just not good timing.
Here's a stupid one that needs flagging:
Cassie - YouTube
and these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6j12xb39Wk&feature=related
Cassie - YouTube
and these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6j12xb39Wk&feature=related
Last edited:
After 50 votes here is the projected outcome including those who asked for their votes to be changed
Flag and take down: 34
Leave up: 16
Flag and take down: 34
Leave up: 16
I didn't read the comments to avoid influence and answered the second question, which I guess is the opposite of how it is being interpreted. This poll needs a redo, still great subject to debate.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
