Smokeless Image, Bloog, etc... battery maH discrepancies?

[rawrscary]

I came across some interesting information. I spoke with the manufacturer that makes Bloog and Smokeless Image batteries. As I'm sure a few people are aware, I've been researching stats on these batteries for an upcoming review I plan to do on all vendors carrying the newer generation 2 regulated kr808d's.

Bloog, Smokeless Image, Smoov, Nhaler and several other vendors carrying these batteries all claim they have an extra 40mah. They claim this: 65mm = 220mah, 78mm = 320 mah, and 102mm = 420mah. Now that is what the vendors claim.

The manufacturer claims 65mm = 180mah, 78mm = 280mah, and 102mm = 380mah.

Here is the question I asked the manufacturer and the response I got. I can post a screen shot of the email if anyone doesn't believe me.

My question:

"Other question is about batteries in the 808 kit. For the 808D-1 batteries, what are the specifications for them? Are these 220mah, 320mah, and 420mah, for all three sizes? Are they regulated to stay working at 3.7volts?"

Manufacturer response:

"As for the specification of the battery, it is 180mah for 65mm, 280mah for 78mm, 380mah for 102mm. So i don't know why Bloog and VOLT make them be more larger. But it's ok, because they just have small difference for that capacity. And all the batteries are regulated to stay working at 3.7volts."

My response to that:

"About the batteries, you make Bloog and Smokeless batteries, yes? I am not sure why they would say they are bigger. Bloog said they all have extra 40mah compared to other batteries."

Manufacturer response:

"Sorry, i missed your email last night.

Yep, we produce for Bloog and Smokeless, all our battery are the same.
Enclosed are part of the battery we made for Smokeless, please check."

She also included pics of volt batteries.


Notice I didn't mention a thing about Bloog or Volt when I first asked about the battery specifications. And for that matter, the first time I contacted them, they came right out and said that Smokeless and Bloog were some of the customers they had experience in making products for.

This leads me to believe that the manufacturer is aware of the fact that a few vendors are claiming battery sizes which aren't correct.

Now I'm not saying any specific vendor is being malicious in their claim of a higher battery capacity... but it leaves me wondering why they are indeed saying their batteries have 40 extra mah compared to anyone elses when the manufacturer claims otherwise.

That being said... I realize it's a very small amount. In real world usage, it's probably going to equate to maybe a few extra puffs. To me though, it's the principle of the matter. A vendor making claims about something that isn't actually so, does not bode well with me. And yes, I am a big fan of Bloog.

Thoughts?


Moderator intervention:
1. For the record I have edited the title of this post to something less inciting / potentially libelous.
2. I have not edited the content of this post in any way other than to add these notes
3. This post was screened and the OP's quotes of emails are allowed under the rules as decided by the Website Manager. Decision made, no arguing, stop reporting it.

 

[Morandir835]

Rawrscary sir really don't see the point in this. Tests have shown the bloog, smokeless image, and halo batts all range from 3.6v-3.7v regulated (in my own tests the highest I ever saw was 3.64 on a halo batt, but will account for fault tolerance), and can honestly say the gen 2 batts do indeed last slightly longer than the gen 1 (about 33.5 minutes longer on average than their same sized counterparts). How much that has to do with the voltage being regulated or if it's actually higher mah capacity in the batt itself is a valid question, but moot point. The outcome is the same none the less.

Have a few questions though.... Are you a 100% positive this was indeed the manufacturer of the bloog/si batts? Are you a 100% positive that the person you emailed was truthful and knowledgeable? In the end the answers don't matter though. All that really matters is if the gen 2 kr808's, no matter what vendor you purchase them from, work for you. Same can be said of every pv on the market.

 

[crbrown]

Why don't about this in the Bloog sub-forum or the Smokeless Image thread?
I'm sure they could answer to it better.

 

[hairball]

Some good points made here because I was was interested in purchasing a Volt to try out. My question is why would a vendor lie about it? I know 40mah isn't much difference however, it's the point of being a trustworthy vendor.

 

[crbrown]

Some good points made here because I was was interested in purchasing a Volt to try out. My question is why would a vendor lie about it? I know 40mah isn't much difference however, it's the point of being a trustworthy vendor.

I cant understand why the would, but as Morandir said, they do last longer.

 

[Morandir835]

Ms. Hairball don't know why they would when it's quite easy to prove if a batt does or doesn't last longer than another. Proving mah itself isn't something one can do without the proper equipment, but again it's a moot point......

 

[oldsoldier]

If you read the flashlight forums (not ecf, but any of the large forums dedicated to flashlights) you'll find out the flashlight guys have done extensive testing on many "normal" batteries and the mah ratings of almost every battery out there is overstated by the manufacturer.

It is entirely possible that the numbers being posted by these vendors comes from some documentation they received or found somewhere.

 

[Morandir835]

Very true Oldsoldier sir.

 

[hairball]

Ms. Hairball don't know why they would when it's quite easy to prove if a batt does or doesn't last longer than another. Proving mah itself isn't something one can do without the proper equipment, but again it's a moot point......

If you read the flashlight forums (not ecf, but any of the large forums dedicated to flashlights) you'll find out the flashlight guys have done extensive testing on many "normal" batteries and the mah ratings of almost every battery out there is overstated by the manufacturer.

It is entirely possible that the numbers being posted by these vendors comes from some documentation they received or found somewhere.

You both have a good point. I've read on a site about batteries usually stating twice the mah than they really are. I will give a Volt kit a shot regardless. However, I don't see why any vendor or manufacturer of any type of battery would want to lie about it other than to get your money. It's just plain wrong to do this. Most folks, myself included, try to look for the highest mah rating to get the best runtime besides using AW red jackets. For me it depends on the mod I want them for as to what I want in a battery.

 

[cigarbabe]

If you read the flashlight forums (not ecf, but any of the large forums dedicated to flashlights) you'll find out the flashlight guys have done extensive testing on many "normal" batteries and the mah ratings of almost every battery out there is overstated by the manufacturer.

It is entirely possible that the numbers being posted by these vendors comes from some documentation they received or found somewhere.

Even if that is true don't they have an obligation to be factual if/when they find out otherwise? I say they absolutely do! I don't like being lied to by anyone so I make damned sure I don't lie.
That would include telling someone "I will do xyz", that I don't really want to doesn't matter.
If I gave my word I will do it. If I didn't then I would have lied and that is a huge "no-no" to me!
Convoluted and slightly off topic but generally relevant in my mind! lol!
C.B.

 

[rbuck9]

i can tell you that there are alot of places in china that will tell you they
produce this or that just to set the hook.
so i personally wouldn't pay it to much attention.
i dont know what the mah rating of the batts are but i can tell you they last longer than ver 1 kr808

 

[Lax]

So have you verified with SI, Bloog, Nhaler, etc that this is the vendor they purchase from? Because I'm guessing I could contact many manufacturers in China that would claim to be suppliers for any number of American vendors. Have you contacted any of the mentioned vendors about the claims? So, how much experience do you have with all of these products you're looking into? You mention you are a fan of Bloog, how long have you been vaping their product? Have you tried any product from the other vendors you mention? Specifically Smokeless Image, since that is the first vendor you list. It is generally accepted that Bloog and SI are the same product but if you have not actually used the Volt why start off the title with the Smokeless Image name?
I am a Volt user, obviously by my sig, and own product from Nhaler as well. They both have great customer service and put out great product. I'm a savvy enough consumer to realize the specs given by any manufacturer are not always going to be correct. When was the last time you dyno'd your car to check the horsepower numbers they claimed? You read reviews of people using the product and make an educated decision.
I'm not trying to discredit you outright but I am put off by the title of your thread. Vendors cannot post here themselves to respond to your claims and questions so a discussion without their input seems a bit unfair. Have you posted in any of the forum supplier threads asking your questions?
Best of luck with your review but please make sure to get both sides of the story. It's feeling a little thin on credible info right now.

 

[Uncle]

View attachment 55861

"It's feeling a little thin on credible info right now."

Could not have said it any better - THANK YOU ! ! ! View attachment 55862

 

[Morandir835]

Lax sir very well said.

 

[starsong]

The first time I read this the conversation between you and the manufacturer it seemed odd, a question answered before it was asked, etc...and then it occurred to me that it didn't happen in the order you state, and that you did mention Bloog/SI before they did. The flow runs better in this order:

My question:
"Other question is about batteries in the 808 kit. For the 808D-1 batteries, what are the specifications for them? Are these 220mah, 320mah, and 420mah, for all three sizes? Are they regulated to stay working at 3.7volts?"
"About the batteries, you make Bloog and Smokeless batteries, yes? I am not sure why they would say they are bigger. Bloog said they all have extra 40mah compared to other batteries."

Manufacturer response:
"Sorry, i missed your email last night.
Yep, we produce for Bloog and Smokeless, all our battery are the same.
Enclosed are part of the battery we made for Smokeless, please check."
"As for the specification of the battery, it is 180mah for 65mm, 280mah for 78mm, 380mah for 102mm. So i don't know why Bloog and VOLT make them be more larger. But it's ok, because they just have small difference for that capacity. And all the batteries are regulated to stay working at 3.7volts."

Better right?

 

[rawrscary]

So have you verified with SI, Bloog, Nhaler, etc that this is the vendor they purchase from? Because I'm guessing I could contact many manufacturers in China that would claim to be suppliers for any number of American vendors. Have you contacted any of the mentioned vendors about the claims? So, how much experience do you have with all of these products you're looking into? You mention you are a fan of Bloog, how long have you been vaping their product? Have you tried any product from the other vendors you mention? Specifically Smokeless Image, since that is the first vendor you list. It is generally accepted that Bloog and SI are the same product but if you have not actually used the Volt why start off the title with the Smokeless Image name?
I am a Volt user, obviously by my sig, and own product from Nhaler as well. They both have great customer service and put out great product. I'm a savvy enough consumer to realize the specs given by any manufacturer are not always going to be correct. When was the last time you dyno'd your car to check the horsepower numbers they claimed? You read reviews of people using the product and make an educated decision.
I'm not trying to discredit you outright but I am put off by the title of your thread. Vendors cannot post here themselves to respond to your claims and questions so a discussion without their input seems a bit unfair. Have you posted in any of the forum supplier threads asking your questions?
Best of luck with your review but please make sure to get both sides of the story. It's feeling a little thin on credible info right now.

You make gross assumptions and allude to the fact that I must know nothing if I don't personally own, use, or have X, Y, and Z. Not that I don't own these products, but even if I didn't, or had only used something for a month, what does that have to do with contacting a manufacturer and being told what the battery stats are? Absolutely nothing.

Even if I only owned one brand out of five. If they are all claiming the same battery capacity, but the manufacturer says different, how would me owning, using, or trying their product make a difference? I am simply stating what I was told when I contacted the manufacturer... and obviously it does not jive with what bloog, smokeless image, smoove, nhaler, and many others claim for battery capacity.

As for not posting, I assumed it probably would have gotten deleted by the vendor, had I posted in their sub forums. I was also not aware they weren't allowed to post in this forum. I don't see why they wouldn't be...

 

[rawrscary]

Rawrscary sir really don't see the point in this. Tests have shown the bloog, smokeless image, and halo batts all range from 3.6v-3.7v regulated (in my own tests the highest I ever saw was 3.64 on a halo batt, but will account for fault tolerance), and can honestly say the gen 2 batts do indeed last slightly longer than the gen 1 (about 33.5 minutes longer on average than their same sized counterparts). How much that has to do with the voltage being regulated or if it's actually higher mah capacity in the batt itself is a valid question, but moot point. The outcome is the same none the less.

Have a few questions though.... Are you a 100% positive this was indeed the manufacturer of the bloog/si batts? Are you a 100% positive that the person you emailed was truthful and knowledgeable? In the end the answers don't matter though. All that really matters is if the gen 2 kr808's, no matter what vendor you purchase them from, work for you. Same can be said of every pv on the market.

The point is very simple. People will make a claim that their product is unique and different in order to gain sales. I really don't understand how that is not evident, as other people got the point very clearly, and I even stated this point at the end of my original post.

Regarding battery voltage, I'm not discussing that in this thread. My point, and post, has nothing to do with battery voltages. We're talking about battery capacity and claims by vendors as to how much capacity their batteries have, compared to what the manufacturer is stating.

Yes I am positive that this is the manufacturer that makes bloog and volt. I don't have any way to ensure someone is being truthful. I ask the manufacturer a question, and that was the response I got. I'm not a human lie detector.

In the end, the answers do matter. If batteries are being made at 180, 280, and 380 mah, that would mean vendors have no business claiming they are anything but that. It would also technically mean that a vendor is trying to slightly boost the capacity so they can say "my product is better" and naive people will purchase from them, thinking that somehow it is better. I'm pretty shocked you'd say that it doesn't matter what the answers are.

 

[rawrscary]

The first time I read this the conversation between you and the manufacturer it seemed odd, a question answered before it was asked, etc...and then it occurred to me that it didn't happen in the order you state, and that you did mention Bloog/SI before they did. The flow runs better in this order:

My question:
"Other question is about batteries in the 808 kit. For the 808D-1 batteries, what are the specifications for them? Are these 220mah, 320mah, and 420mah, for all three sizes? Are they regulated to stay working at 3.7volts?"
"About the batteries, you make Bloog and Smokeless batteries, yes? I am not sure why they would say they are bigger. Bloog said they all have extra 40mah compared to other batteries."

Manufacturer response:
"Sorry, i missed your email last night.
Yep, we produce for Bloog and Smokeless, all our battery are the same.
Enclosed are part of the battery we made for Smokeless, please check."
"As for the specification of the battery, it is 180mah for 65mm, 280mah for 78mm, 380mah for 102mm. So i don't know why Bloog and VOLT make them be more larger. But it's ok, because they just have small difference for that capacity. And all the batteries are regulated to stay working at 3.7volts."

Better right?

First of all, I take offense that you'd think I was lying about the order. Second of all, even if it did occur in this order, does it change anything I said?

Just to set the record straight... here are screen shots. You are wrong, and it did not occur in the order that you rearranged. Nothing was answered before it was asked.


Be sure to click the magnifying glass to zoom into the pics on imageshack. They are not resized, so you can read them at the full resolution they were saved when I took screen shots. I blurred out my name and email address anywhere it appeared on the screen shots.


Email1
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/email1gn.jpg/


Email2
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/email2ln.jpg/



Battery Pics sent from manufacturer.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/20110713287.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/20110713286.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/20110713288.jpg/

 

[Wuzznt Me]

The last line of the op is a question, "Thoughts?", which solicits me to share mine. My first thought poses a question. You have stated you found the manufacturer of SI Volt and Bloog batteries and posted an email alleged to have came from that manufacturer, but posted no source. How do I know the email actually comes from the manufacturer if I don't have a source to verify? It looks more like something that would come from a trader or competing manufacturer to me. I'm sure the photo she sent will appear in your review with some way of verifying that it is actually from the manufacturer. Second thought was the order of the email. I read it several times and something didn't quite ring true but I couldn't quite catch it without giving it more thought than I was inclined to. Starsong spared me the trouble and later posted my thought on that accurately. 3rd thought came from the response by Mr Morindir835, who I find to be entirely credible and knowledgeable, when he stated the batteries last about 33.5 minutes longer than gen 1. I've been using these batteries for a couple of months now and my experience parallels or exceeds his. How is this even possible if they don't in fact have more mah? Where does the extra time come from? Logic prevails in my mind. 4th thought came later in the thread reading a response to another poster when you stated you can do a review without actually owning or using that specific product. I'm glad you shared this since the only reviewers I personally find credible use a specific product, not one that claims to be the same, exclusively for at least a week before doing a review. That leaves quite a few that I find as entertaining but not to be taken any more seriously than the magazines at the grocery checkout. But that's just me. Final thoughts. I enjoy using these products and get excellent performance from them. The vendors I buy them from excel in customer service and one backs their product for an above average warranty period. They have been tested for accuracy in performance by knowledgeable and credible long term owner/users and found to perform. Accuracy in specs is moot compared to real world use. These are my "thoughts" you invited. I wish you luck with your review.

 

[Morandir835]

Rawrscary sir if you go back to your original post in your "e-mail" you make it a point to say that the batts are 3.7v. So exactly why is me mentioning voltage not relevant? Just can't understand your proverbial witch hunt. You're attacking vendors based off an email without having actually testing the batteries in real life.