Smoking unchained? (where can I vape?)

[evilfrog]

Here in Portland OR (as in many places) it is illegal to smoke within 10 feet of a business entrance. Failure to comply with this law results in a $350 fine for the business (and the offender will presumably not be welcome back).
I am curious if e-cigs are legal in these situations (as well as in bars, movie theaters, etc.). From other threads I gather that one should ask before vaping in a business... which is fine, but I am wondering more about legal consequences than politeness.
I work in a coffeeshop in Portland and would like to allow the few vapers who frequent the place to do so inside rather then banishing them to the back patio with the analog smokers, but I can't pay the fine! ...and yes, we do have some customers who would gladly call the health department on us.
Any lawyers out there?

 

[JC Okie]

Laws are so different everywhere. Maybe get a copy of the specific law and see if e-cigs are mentioned specifically. If they're not, I'd think you'd have a great case....because this is NOT smoking. If it only says "smoking" then this is NOT smoking....

I'm not a lawyer, but that's just common sense. Read the law...if you can wade your way through it.

 

[RandomMusing]

This is a great question, but I don't know the answer

Since vaping I haven't tried vaping inside anywhere public. If I go to the bars I follow my friends out to the smoking patio to vape, but I've never vaped inside.

The only time I did was at the grocery store, I was standing in the frozen section, put my hand in my jacket pocket, felt my eGo, pulled it out and took a puff, then put it back.

I'd be interested to know what my city (LA) feels about e-cigs inside establishments.

 

[TJVapes]

A lot of places are trying to write e-cigs in to the no smoking laws. It's happening here now. Don't know if it'll fly or not, but I suspect that anywhere you can't smoke you won't be able to vape either before long.

 

[mano932]

i live in Maine. No one up here has even heard of vaping. I get alot of funny looks. I try not be foolish with it though. I try to ease people in to it. Talk about it first then take it out. Ive manged to turn my favorite diner and a coffee shop into vap friendly establishments. If they are super busy i wont whip it out and get a cloud going. i try to be respectful so far its working great. I believe by all means if you wanted to be rude though, you could just start it up anywhere. Its not smoke there is no combustion. I think eventually you might even start to see signs under the traditional no smoking signs,stating no vaping. i would hate to see this. Totally defeats the purpose.

 

[toddos]

WA just added e-cigs to their smoking ban. I don't know if OR has yet, but if they haven't they probably will soon. CA, OR, and WA tend to all do approximately the same things over time. Usually CA does it first and WA and OR follow. This time WA got to it first, and I'm betting OR and CA will follow within the next year if they haven't already.

Also, when in doubt, ask. Check with your waiter or bartender if it's okay to use your PV. You may need to explain to them what it is, show them how it works, and be prepared to take "No" for an answer. If it's prohibited by law, they'll know. If it's not, it's up to the establishment.

 

[dormouse]

I am more concerned with politeness and not giving anti-smokers a personal reason to go after e-cigs. I don't think anyone wants to smell my vapor, especially while they are eating. I would not want to obscure someone's view of a movie, etc.

I vape where smoking is allowed and where I have been told I can vape. I also sneak vapes in the stalls of public bathrooms and in the home bathrooms of non-smoking family and friends. If I know I will be sneaking vapes in a bathroom I add some vanilla or peach ejuice to my tobacco ejuice, or use a sweet vanilla caramel or vanilla alone. It just leaves a scent anyone might confuse with cologne etc.

And BTW - one member's non-smoking apartment building actually amended their rules to say no e-cigarettes allowed either.

 

[evilfrog]

Well I sneak many tokes in at work... when its slow I chain vape in the back rooms.... no one has complained about odor (maybe they are just polite?). My only juice right now is Dunhill flavored (I'm new to this thing).... maybe it just smells better then the analog reek I used to have from constant cig breaks out on the deck? A dozen years ago everyone would smoke and play bridge in the back room for hours during work.... I miss it! Our best bridge player died of cancer. 40 years of unfiltered Pall Malls.
I guess I'll continue sub-rosa vaping.... maybe look the other way if a customer vapes when no one is around.

off topic: Bridge players are a group ripe for e-cigs. Pool hustlers are the only sub-culture more committed to smoking that I can think of.

 

[EDDIE D]

i was visiting in san jose california for a few weeks in 2001 and i couldn't believe that you couldn't smoke in a bar, that was coming from massachusetts where it was all good, being at a bar and having to go outside to smoke was ridiculous. i haven't tried to vape in non-smoking areas yet, too much ignorance about the product. lots of resistance even when talking with smokers themselves as their only impression has been the overpriced and underperforming mall brands. it's going to be long journey to convert the smokers and the public's image but i've been seeing more and more vaping on television in the last year...

 

[afrazier5]

Today was my first day vaping at the office as I just switched over on Saturday. I did a few discrete tokes in the office bathroom to avoid going out to the frigid temps. Not going to try and convince them to let me do it in the office though as I'm one of only about 6 smokers in our regional facility.

 

[mlinky]

Oregon statute refers to lighted smoking instrument and justifies the statute due to second-hand smoke, so unless there is a local ordinance, pvs are probably not subject to the ban. Oregon Revised Statute 433.835-433.990 - Oregon's Smokefree Workplace Law

 

[toddos]

For what it's worth, Washington's smoking ban has the same language. Justified based on second-hand smoke's effect on workers, and applies to "any kind of lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, or any other lighted smoking equipment". However King County recently banned e-cigs under the same rules (you can still sell them and vape them, but not inside or anywhere the smoking ban affects). Their justification was that it entices analog smokers to light up. The BOH code hasn't yet been updated and still uses the same language as the state law that refers only to analogs and "lighted" implements.

The point is that just because the state says one thing doesn't stop cities or counties from doing something else.

 

[katydid]

I found out about Ecigs as a state employee. It was announced that Ecigs were to have the same restrictions as regular cigs. That made me take a good look at them a couple of months later when they showed up at the mall.

 

[VeeDubb65]

I also live in Oregon, and I'll even try not to hold it against you that you live in the city that elected Kitzhauber again.......


Anyway, it's perfectly legal to vape where ever the heck you want in Oregon, with the exception of private property if the property owner or their representative tells you not to. For example, it's legal to vape at Lloyd Center, but if mall security tells you not to, your only options are to stop or leave.

There's also some common sense involved. Personally, I never vape where I couldn't smoke legally except for places that I could have smoked until they banned it last year like bars. Smoking in theaters has been illegal for decades, and it's just not worth the hassle to try to vape in one. People will complain, the manager will throw you out because they have the right to and they'll be annoyed about all the complaints. Not worth the trouble.

Trying to vape in a hospital or church is simply rude whether it's legal or not.

Walking down the side walk? I'll vape all I want.

 

[Sandybeach40]

Here in Portland OR (as in many places) it is illegal to smoke within 10 feet of a business entrance. Failure to comply with this law results in a $350 fine for the business (and the offender will presumably not be welcome back).
I am curious if e-cigs are legal in these situations (as well as in bars, movie theaters, etc.). From other threads I gather that one should ask before vaping in a business... which is fine, but I am wondering more about legal consequences than politeness.
I work in a coffeeshop in Portland and would like to allow the few vapers who frequent the place to do so inside rather then banishing them to the back patio with the analog smokers, but I can't pay the fine! ...and yes, we do have some customers who would gladly call the health department on us.
Any lawyers out there?

You can vape anywhere

 

[Puff_N_Tampa]

It's water Vapor, smoke that Ish anywhere!

 

[mlinky]

For what it's worth, Washington's smoking ban has the same language. Justified based on second-hand smoke's effect on workers, and applies to "any kind of lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, or any other lighted smoking equipment". However King County recently banned e-cigs under the same rules (you can still sell them and vape them, but not inside or anywhere the smoking ban affects). Their justification was that it entices analog smokers to light up. The BOH code hasn't yet been updated and still uses the same language as the state law that refers only to analogs and "lighted" implements.

The point is that just because the state says one thing doesn't stop cities or counties from doing something else.

Which is why I said "unless there is a local ordinance"

 

[FreakyStylie]

Well, I just had my first bar outing this weekend. We were pretty much toast by the time the situation came up, but a couple of the people I was with were puffing in the booth with waitresses walking by and they didn't say anything. I would have asked first, just to keep on the up-n-up, but I was beyond coherency, so I just walked outside with the rest of the crowd. FWIW, all of the people who were vaping inside the bar were previously non-vapers, so at least a little more of the word has been spread.

I would always suggest to talk to the owner first. That helps educate and gives them the feeling of empowerment, which can help a lot if they approve of it.

 

[MrNate]

I just got told that there's a $250 fine for vaping in a bar in NJ. Told the bartender I owed him.