Snus E-Juice

[prr2freya]

Hello all! The Camel frost snus I got from the gas station out of desperation might taste OK, but useless for it's intended purpose (for me)... sooooo.. what to do with the remaining 10 pieces in the can? I am making a vape juice! TB I think had written about it at one point.

For my first try I am using 5 pieces of the Camel Frost soaking in 15ml of PG and 10ml of VG.. I guess 3-5 days should do it?

I have it in one of these things. Not sure if it needs air or not, there is a little hole at the top of the cap for air, but I could do it without the cap. edit: I looked around the forums and realized my mistake, (cap is on airtight now)

And just for the heck of it, here is a pic of a few of my drums. The one in the middle is what I had the soaking snus sitting on to take the picture:

I am hoping, because i still love to vape, that this juice will have some of the other alkaloids in it and thus be more satisfying.. and I wanted something to do with the camel snus

edit: I also wonder if I should try sticking one of the soaked snus packets in my 801 atty once done with it.. TB had also mentioned something about that.

 

[Nforcer]

great Job but is it safe? im really interessed about this DIY because might give better satisfaction , so lemme know if the juice its tasty and satisfying

 

[prr2freya]

Pretty safe.. would be safer with Swedish Snus, and I want to try that some day. I am also soaking some organic Chai teabags in PG and VG and will let that mature a few days to see if I can get enough caffeine to have a nice morning vape. I have never been a coffee drinker, but I do like tea.

The liquid with the camel snus has darkened a lot and I am tempted to try it now, but I want to wait a few days and let it mature.

 

[BradSmith]

I don't know diddly about making e-liquid but I love the djembe.

Nothin like slapping those skins.

 

[hittman]

I am not for sure but I was thinking that Dvap or someone had said that you don't really get the alkaloids by vaping snus but I am not sure. I tried it with Oomph purified snus in a 510 cart. It tasted good with a menthol liquid but I don't know that it was more satisfying.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Yep, hittman's right. The nic and alkaloids won't make it through to the liquid. TB's idea was for flavor, but most of us figured with the right liquid (various ones were tried), given enough time even a 17mg Oden would give up something good, but it never worked. It seems the only way to get nic and alkaloids from snus is solely through the mucosa. If you like treasure hunting, it's all buried somewhere in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html. In that thread, just about everything got tried.

 

[Bagazo]

Yep, hittman's right. The nic and alkaloids won't make it through to the liquid. TB's idea was for flavor, but most of us figured with the right liquid (various ones were tried), given enough time even a 17mg Oden would give up something good, but it never worked. It seems the only way to get nic and alkaloids from snus is solely through the mucosa. If you like treasure hunting, it's all buried somewhere in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html. In that thread, just about everything got tried.

I would just like to say that saying that the nic and alkaloids in snus won't "make it into the liquid" is incorrect. I know that a lot of different liquids were tried in the testing done by different forum members and when used they felt "little if any nic" in their extracts.

The reason for this is because of the amount of liquid needed to perform the extraction.

Here is some good reading on extracts with water: Investigations Into the Extraction of Nicotine From Tobacco

Page 6 states: "The solutions obtained by these water extraction methods usually contain 0.1% to 1.0% nicotine plus other dissolved or suspended tobacco material. These extracts are then processed to concentrate the nicotine, either as the pure nicotine alkaloids or as a nicotine salt."

As you can see 0.1% to 1.0% nic gives the "little if any nic" result and most are uneasy about concentrating the nic so the idea just sort of stopped there and became the "do it just for flavor" idea.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

As you can see 0.1% to 1.0% nic gives the "little if any nic" result and most are uneasy about concentrating the nic so the idea just sort of stopped there and became the "do it just for flavor" idea.

Ok, I'd buy that. So on the outside, a 1 gram portion of Oden may yield as much as 1.53mg nic and .17mg other alkaloids max. So, if I was able to process with perfect results it should only take 3 or 4 cans of Oden to derive 1ml of soothing vapor. Another problem is with the technical extraction process. Without it, one would end up with a puddle of atty plugging goo, nothing like the consistency of eliquid. Whatever works, work it I say, but if there's not enough nic and alkaloids to even do a hint of good, how can it be looked at as anything but flavoring?

 

[keyzygirl]

What if you soak it in pga?

 

[Bagazo]

Ok, I'd buy that. So on the outside, a 1 gram portion of Oden may yield as much as 1.53mg nic and .17mg other alkaloids max. So, if I was able to process with perfect results it should only take 3 or 4 cans of Oden to derive 1ml of soothing vapor. Another problem is with the technical extraction process. Without it, one would end up with a puddle of atty plugging goo, nothing like the consistency of eliquid. Whatever works, work it I say, but if there's not enough nic and alkaloids to even do a hint of good, how can it be looked at as anything but flavoring?

Sorry TV I should have made clear that the 0.1% to 1.0% is the concentration of nic in the water and not the amount extracted from the leaf.

Page 37 found here: Investigations Into the Extraction of Nicotine From Tobacco says:

"The water extraction technique is an efficient method for the removal of 80-85% of nicotine from leaf material or stems. The tobacco requires sequential extraction to obtain this efficiency. Partial reduction of the leaf nicotine (40-45%) may be obtained after one extraction."

If the oden you mention are 24 to a tin and 8mg per portion then that would be 192mg of nicotine and if you can get 40% out that would be 76.8 mg which seems good for a couple of ml but the problem is that you have to use 50ml or more water to get it out. At 50ml that would be 76.8mg/50ml = 1.536mg/ml.

You would have to process to clean and concentrate to get the nic up and that is where people would just rather not tread and I can understand that.

The thing is that saying that the alkaloids don't make it into the liquid gives the impression that if I wan't I could concentrate the extract a lot to pack more flavor without thinning my juice too much and not have to worry about nic content because it doesn't make it into the liquid when in reality this could be dangerous not just from the final nic content but from the handling of the concentrated extract.

I know that the OP talked about using PG and VG and that it will not see any concentration but someone may try other liquids which can be evaporated at low temps and I would not like to see someone hurt because they are thinking "since the nic and other alkaloids won't make it through to the liquid it should be nic free and therefore safe".

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

You would have to process to clean and concentrate to get the nic up and that is where people would just rather not tread and I can understand that.

The thing is that saying that the alkaloids don't make it into the liquid gives the impression that if I wan't I could concentrate the extract a lot to pack more flavor without thinning my juice too much and not have to worry about nic content because it doesn't make it into the liquid when in reality this could be dangerous not just from the final nic content but from the handling of the concentrated extract.

I know that the OP talked about using PG and VG and that it will not see any concentration but someone may try other liquids which can be evaporated at low temps and I would not like to see someone hurt because they are thinking "since the nic and other alkaloids won't make it through to the liquid it should be nic free and therefore safe".

I see your point and respect it, but as shown in the link, there's much more involved than a simple soak to get enough nic to be indicated by any other means than an analysis. It really doesn't work, at least to a degree that would make it worth the investment and certainly not enough to be a danger. The danger would come from the solvents used for separation, isolation. Arrgh....before it gets too deep in here I'll send a PM to DVap and we'll see if he'll take the time to check this over and give his input. My response to this thread was to point out if anyone needs more than a regular eliquid to kill a craving or keep their lid on tight, they'll be very disappointed with the end result.

 

[Bagazo]

I see your point and respect it, but as shown in the link, there's much more involved than a simple soak to get enough nic to be indicated by any other means than an analysis. It really doesn't work, at least to a degree that would make it worth the investment and certainly not enough to be a danger. The danger would come from the solvents used for separation, isolation. Arrgh....before it gets too deep in here I'll send a PM to DVap and we'll see if he'll take the time to check this over and give his input. My response to this thread was to point out if anyone needs more than a regular eliquid to kill a craving or keep their lid on tight, they'll be very disappointed with the end result.

The link actually shows an investigation which is trying to determin the best method of extracting nic from leaf and still having the leaf in a good enough state to be used in a low tar cigarette.

One of the methods is water extraction. A simple soak in alkaline water which gives 40%-45% of the nic getting into the water and sequential extraction gave 80%-85% efficiency.

The other methods include all kinds of solvents and specialized equipment and gives the entire piece an intimidating level of complexity but that is of no intrest to us because we are looking to keep things simple so I just focused on the water extract method.

I'm also not talking about cleaning up and isolating the nic in the water/base extract with any solvents or extra steps. I'm saying that just simmering off some water, ethanol or whatever was used in the primary extract in an effort to concentrate the flavor will actually be concentrating the alkaloids.

Also snus may be great at releasing the nic because it is tobacco soaked (and heated of course) in alkaline water.

 

[DVap]

I'm very familiar with that particular paper.

If a brand of snus contains 8 mg of nicotine per packet, and 5 packets are used with 15 mL of PG, you've defined an "upper limit" of 40 mg/15 mL or 2.67 mg/mL, and the actual extraction efficiency will be somewhat to much lower.

You've also created a gooey and pungent extract.

Any attempt I've made at snus soaking has been a failure as far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration (though I've come up with decent flavored snus extracts). The more snus you use, the thicker the extract becomes and the less mobile the matrix components (nicotine in particular) become. You can probably get a fairly efficient extraction.. but only if you use a fair excess of solvent (PG) to achieve it (but now you've diluted out the nicotine).

To actually isolate tobacco alkaloids essentially pure from a tobacco product is a great pain in the .... I've done it, but the waste and expenses are awful... not to mention the expertise required. The fact that I'm a professional chemist renders the process merely very difficult instead of impossible to get right.

I've not done an alkaloid purification in several months, and for a good reason, it's dirty, nasty, demanding, no fun, and the end product is precious little.

 

[Bagazo]

I'm very familiar with that particular paper.

If a brand of snus contains 8 mg of nicotine per packet, and 5 packets are used with 15 mL of PG, you've defined an "upper limit" of 40 mg/15 mL or 2.67 mg/mL, and the actual extraction efficiency will be somewhat to much lower.

You've also created a gooey and pungent extract.

Any attempt I've made at snus soaking has been a failure as far as getting an appreciable nicotine concentration (though I've come up with decent flavored snus extracts). The more snus you use, the thicker the extract becomes and the less mobile the matrix components (nicotine in particular) become. You can probably get a fairly efficient extraction.. but only if you use a fair excess of solvent (PG) to achieve it (but now you've diluted out the nicotine).

To actually isolate tobacco alkaloids essentially pure from a tobacco product is a great pain in the .... I've done it, but the waste and expenses are awful... not to mention the expertise required. The fact that I'm a professional chemist renders the process merely very difficult instead of impossible to get right.

I've not done an alkaloid purification in several months, and for a good reason, it's dirty, nasty, demanding, no fun, and the end product is precious little.

DVap if you take a look at my previous post you will see that I am not talking about a formal acid/base extraction just a simple WTE type extract. Also not talking PG or VG but water or something similar that can be evaporated at low temps.

The question is if you use water or PGA (as keyzygirl asked about) to do a WTE and you concentrate this is the amount of nic in the liquid so small as to not even matter or is it enough to cause harm.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

The question is if you use water or PGA (as keyzygirl asked about) to do a WTE and you concentrate this is the amount of nic in the liquid so small as to not even matter or is it enough to cause harm.

Hi ya Bagazo. I'd imagine DVap will check back and can give more detail on this (I be but a simple minded man), but he also did a PGA based extraction. I guess the best way to explain all this "snus or 'baccy soaking for nic" stuff is this: There's no doubt that a good soak of said material in the proper amount of water, PGA, PG or pee would yield some nic alkaloids. Also, a proportionately large amount of other solids will be extracted. To simply boil or evaporate the solvent down to a usable amount of nic concentration, one would end up with a gooey mess filled with all the other nasties. By and large, a snus soak is for flavor only. To derive an eliquid from it is just not feasible.

 

[Bagazo]

Hi ya Bagazo. I'd imagine DVap will check back and can give more detail on this (I be but a simple minded man), but he also did a PGA based extraction. I guess the best way to explain all this "snus or 'baccy soaking for nic" stuff is this: There's no doubt that a good soak of said material in the proper amount of water, PGA, PG or pee would yield some nic alkaloids. Also, a proportionately large amount of other solids will be extracted. To simply boil or evaporate the solvent down to a usable amount of nic concentration, one would end up with a gooey mess filled with all the other nasties. By and large, a snus soak is for flavor only. To derive an eliquid from it is just not feasible.

Right TV I agree about clean e-liquid being impossible with this method. I'm thinking about flavor concentrate being high enough in nic to warrant special care. Not once you place a drop or two in your base juice and give a good shake but while handling the concentrate in it's full strength like during it's elaboration and transfer to a storage bottle or perhaps if it were to spill.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Right TV I agree about clean e-liquid being impossible with this method. I'm thinking about flavor concentrate being high enough in nic to warrant special care. Not once you place a drop or two in your base juice and give a good shake but while handling the concentrate in it's full strength like during it's elaboration and transfer to a storage bottle or perhaps if it were to spill.

Well, I guess if enough was soaked and condensed to a concentrated flavoring syrup then it would indeed be possible to have a dangerous mix in hand. Then again, it would sure be a lot of hassle when so many good flavors of eliquid are available for cheap. ...and a sacrilegious waste of snus .

 

[Bagazo]

I swear TV that no snus have been or will ever be harmed in my extract experiments.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

That's all I ask, man, that's all I ask.

 

[DVap]

Hmm.. An acidic water extraction with boiling. Yea, I suppose it could turn out a bit hazardous. I would guess if all the water were evaporated, it would turn into a dark brown gooey mess enhanced in nicotine and smelling of ....

How enhanced? Dunno, would depend on the percentage of water extractables to non-extractables and solid plant fiber. Maybe increase the nicotine in the dried extract by a factor of several? Mostly would just make a mess.