So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[four2109]

I've been away again... This thread has been busy!!
As to the snus and distilled water... It's nice to have something to do with those extra stark frosted portions in my freezer!! (I can only do dry minis) I thought I was going to have to send them to TV!

Is it necessary to filter the liquid? or would it suffice to let it settle and draw off the top?

I love the expresso machine suggestion! Mine hasn't been used in awhile. I can see Vaporer processing his harvest that way... on a larger scale. Could it really be that easy?

 

[kinabaloo]

kin... regarding freezing to rupture cells.. I did some quick research on cryonics, and it turns out that cell rupture from freezing is a bit of a myth. Unless the freezing is done rapidly enough that the rate of crystal formation exceeds the rate of osmosis, the cell will not rupture. Not sure what this rate has to be. i.e. Plant seeds in nature can freeze without apparent damage and be viable in the spring. Long term freezing temperatures, and cycling freeze/thaw cycles will cause tissue destruction.

Depends on the water content too, and how tough the superstructure is - tougher in seeds and stem than leafs and fruit. Might be worth freezing - if only to aid the grinding.

 

[kinabaloo]

Is it necessary to filter the liquid? or would it suffice to let it settle and draw off the top?

Assuming you mean the simple soak method, if it settles clear at the top, yes just draw that off. Might take a long time though.

 

[tceight]

Absolutely - it is not like making tea, the mix would be more like a paste.

I aim for a 'dry paste' or a 'moist powder'
When I add the oil, I can see it slowly creeping down through the tobacco, causing the entire mass to darken. If there is too much water, the oil just sits there on top and does not creep by capillary action throughout the matrix.

 

[kinabaloo]

I aim for a 'dry paste' or a 'moist powder'
When I add the oil, I can see it slowly creeping down through the tobacco, causing the entire mass to darken. If there is too much water, the oil just sits there on top and does not creep by capillary action throughout the matrix.

Would be great to see some photos one day, would really help people following the method.

 

[tceight]

I've been away again... This thread has been busy!!
As to the snus and distilled water... It's nice to have something to do with those extra stark frosted portions in my freezer!! (I can only do dry minis) I thought I was going to have to send them to TV!

Is it necessary to filter the liquid? or would it suffice to let it settle and draw off the top?

I love the expresso machine suggestion! Mine hasn't been used in awhile. I can see Vaporer processing his harvest that way... on a larger scale. Could it really be that easy?

yes, it can be that 'easy'. But my concern with the simple soak method is that it will also carry over several volatile organic compounds with it. Better than burning it? absolutely!!!

 

[kinabaloo]

yes, it can be that 'easy'. But my concern with the simple soak method is that it will also carry over several volatile organic compounds with it. Better than burning it? absolutely!!!

Hopefully people will migrate to the better method once realise there really is somethig in this.

 

[DVap]

I've got a decent suspicion that the processing of snus during manufacture might do a decent job of rupturing tobacco cells. It's engineered to give up the goods, after all.

I believe that appropriate pH modification is more important than grinding, etc.

 

[kinabaloo]

I've got a decent suspicion that the processing of snus during manufacture might do a decent job of rupturing tobacco cells. It's engineered to give up the goods, after all.

I believe that appropriate pH modification is more important than grinding, etc.

They are probably both important; though the pH mod might be critical for a good yield.

DVap - have this link that might be of interest : Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki HCL salt is just below the freebase.

http://wiki.dmt-nexus.com/Harmalas_Extraction_and_Separation_Guide

Maybe the use of table salt is interesting, or only of use for separations.

~~~

Side note :

The BPs of many alkaloids are high - higher than an atomiser would likely reach; of course it's complex when the liquid is a mixture, but rather suggests that the alkaloids might predominantly be 'carried' out of the atomiser / minute droplets shot off the coil by vapor pressure of the parts that do vaporise.

 

[DVap]

The 61% recovery represents no grinding or processing of the snus prior to extraction.

 

[slopes]

What about this simple process - dry ice extraction?

YouTube - Extracting limonene using liquid carbon dioxide

 

[tceight]

That is genious! supercritical extraction MacGuyver style!


While I believe it would work,,,,I would STRONGLY caution anyone thinking about this process, (supercritical CO2) for the reason of concentration of nicotine.
These dangers were discussed earlier on in this and other threads, and still hold true.
This is the same concern for any process that ends up with the alkaloids in concentrated form.
This is really best left to those with the training, and environmental controls in working with highly toxic materials.
Tragedy is one missed drop away. :-S

 

[DVap]

What about this simple process - dry ice extraction?

YouTube - Extracting limonene using liquid carbon dioxide

Solid CO2 heated to 323°K in a sealed plastic tube... and watch the pressure build to ~1100 PSI.

Remind me to be far away when someone tries to scale this one up.

 

[slopes]

I'd never try it of course ...just wanted to hear what the experts thought!

 

[tescela]

Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine.[39] This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use.

Technically, nicotine is not significantly addictive, as nicotine administered alone does not produce significant reinforcing properties.[40] However, only after coadministration with an MAOI, such as those found in tobacco, nicotine produces significant behavioral sensitization, a measure of addiction potential. This is similar in effect to amphetamine.[41]

Nicotine gum, usually in 2-mg or 4-mg doses, and nicotine patches are available, as well as smokeless tobacco, and electronic cigarettes, which do not have all the other ingredients in tobacco.[42]

Where are the citations for this? Please provide a link...

 

[tescela]

Would be great to see some photos one day, would really help people following the method.

Amen.


It is good to see the uptick in experimentation with producing WTA eliquid. The increase in the number of people that are experimenting, and the broadening into multiple different types of process bode well.

Step-by-step documentation (especially with photos) = more people experimenting and tweaking the process = acceleration toward the end goal of effective, inexpensive, standardized, widely available WTA eliquid.

 

[Virk]

As to the snus and distilled water...
Is it necessary to filter the liquid? or would it suffice to let it settle and draw off the top?

This liquid is already pretty clear and I didn't give it time to settle, I went straight to filtering it 'cuz I was in a hurry to try it out. I think you'll want to filter at least once to preserve your atty's, but that's just a hunch.

Oh and to add, I'll be receiving some swedish snus in about a week and will be trying this again, hoping to refine the process and maybe come away with even better results, in about a week.

 

[tceight]

Amen.


It is good to see the uptick in experimentation with producing WTA eliquid. The increase in the number of people that are experimenting, and the broadening into multiple different types of process bode well.

Step-by-step documentation (especially with photos) = more people experimenting and tweaking the process = acceleration toward the end goal of effective, inexpensive, standardized, widely available WTA eliquid.

Agreed on all counts Tescela. I should have my camera set by the bench, as I get to play only 10 min at a time as I am passing through the garage.
"standardized" might be a challenge, but effective and sufficient is within reach. Our ability to self titrate so accurately means standardization isn't absolutely necessary.
This also opens the doors to 'other' titration methods too, and potential NRT's that actually work, like a WTA nasal spray, spritzer, etc.

 

[DVap]

For those wondering what they might be able to get as far as a "clean" extraction, I've included a small photo of 30 mg WTA e-liquid.

This is the snus liquid I made over the past couple days, and it is just slightly more colored than the 30 mg WTA made from NAS tobacco.

For all intents and purposes, this is as clean as it gets.


[click to enlarge]

 

[kinabaloo]

For those wondering what they might be able to get as far as a "clean" extraction, I've included a small photo of 30 mg WTA e-liquid.

This is the snus liquid I made over the past couple days, and it is just slightly more colored than the 30 mg WTA made from NAS tobacco.

For all intents and purposes, this is as clean as it gets.

View attachment 29267
[click to enlarge]

Not the best photo - looks like a foggy day. But I'm sure it looks clear to the eye