DVap, then I take it that it's okay to tell the world about WTA and the experiments? I'll certainly do it. I expect MANY questions to follow, however, the most obvious being "Where can I get some?" 
So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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I came on and they bailed! lol
I have bailed on myself too........so I don't feel to bad.
Well...I don't feel as if I was all wrong or all right. Not bad really...........
25% may not actually be a bad thing. It is cumulative for a much longer period.
Might vape a bit more than the test times, but overall could be an edge reducer since it does hang around.
I can see the potential in this like I discussed with TBob till eliquid disappears.
Then we'll need to find a nic source.......hmmmm.....where's that white thing with the 10mg in it?
Thanks DVap and welcome back to the zoo.
I have bailed on myself too........so I don't feel to bad.
Well...I don't feel as if I was all wrong or all right. Not bad really...........
25% may not actually be a bad thing. It is cumulative for a much longer period.
Might vape a bit more than the test times, but overall could be an edge reducer since it does hang around.
I can see the potential in this like I discussed with TBob till eliquid disappears.
Then we'll need to find a nic source.......hmmmm.....where's that white thing with the 10mg in it?
Thanks DVap and welcome back to the zoo.
One more note: The temperature was in the low 80s with high humidity this morning as I was vaporizing the WTA on my back porch. I had my house open while I used it in my favorite recliner in the living room. These are not conditions where I would expect lingering vapor. That's why I began to wonder if this vapor didn't contain some particles found in smoke.
DVap, then I take it that it's okay to tell the world about WTA and the experiments? I'll certainly do it. I expect MANY questions to follow, however, the most obvious being "Where can I get some?"
Well, it's no secret, so how could I mind?
The direct "paydirt" observation would probably be the efficacy of snus being better understood as very possibly being due to it's similarity in alkaloid profile to WTA, or on the flip-side, the limitation of nic liquid very possibly being due to it's lack of the WTA aspects of snus and WTA liquid, and it's reliance solely on nicotine to carry the load.
Actually TBob I think your question was very valid. We don't argue here fenez...... thats what makes it nice.
Since I dont see the possiblity of a WTA liquid ever hitting the streets from a manufacturer after the heart attack the FDA had over e liquid , I'd say its for those that find here and to be used accordingly. I live in a house of "never have smokers" and they couldn't tell the diff during my test. A machine might under analysis.
So......now we search for the kick but all out tobacco. Gonna be hard to find additive free. I'd make the assumption that regular tobacco will be much higher in TSNA's among a few other things?
Since I dont see the possiblity of a WTA liquid ever hitting the streets from a manufacturer after the heart attack the FDA had over e liquid , I'd say its for those that find here and to be used accordingly. I live in a house of "never have smokers" and they couldn't tell the diff during my test. A machine might under analysis.
So......now we search for the kick but all out tobacco. Gonna be hard to find additive free. I'd make the assumption that regular tobacco will be much higher in TSNA's among a few other things?
Much the same thoughts I was having. Something with no liability, if possible.
Yer killin' me here, Mister. I was stating the alkaloid content of the extracted nicotine, not the content in the baccy
Yup, got that. The article I referred to puts the usual percentage of nicotine vs. other alkaloids in cigarettes at 95/5. So 90/10 seems on the high side for the other alkaloids.
Well, for those that chose to buy your seeds, which are very cheap, this should be interesting.
"Total alkaloid concentration was highest in the upper stalk position and in lamina. Increased plant population resulted in decreased total alkaloids in the middle stalk position. Topping and increasing N-rate resulted in higher total alkaloids in all stalk positions"
Close-Grown Tobacco: Yield, Alkaloids, and Sugar Content by Stalk Position -- Campbell et al. 72 (6): 929 -- Agronomy Journal
"Total alkaloid concentration was highest in the upper stalk position and in lamina. Increased plant population resulted in decreased total alkaloids in the middle stalk position. Topping and increasing N-rate resulted in higher total alkaloids in all stalk positions"
Close-Grown Tobacco: Yield, Alkaloids, and Sugar Content by Stalk Position -- Campbell et al. 72 (6): 929 -- Agronomy Journal
If someone grew some nicotiana rustica seeds, and selected carefully the parts of the plant, they could approach 10% alkaloids... standard soaks would start to work way up at that level... but rustica is some rough stuff.
So does the extra nic from the tabacco exctrat in the PG/VG also.
Mabey im in over my head with this thread...but whenever there is a will there is a way.
Mabey im in over my head with this thread...but whenever there is a will there is a way.
Spent this morning trying this out. I'll post the video here, but my observation, not recorded in the video, is that the vegetable glycerine soak was inadequate somehow. The soak with 48mg e-liquid worked by all measures, but this will not last me all day, by any stretch.
The WTA liquid is still king.
YouTube - Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit VI
The WTA liquid is still king.
YouTube - Spend Less on Your Tobacco Habit VI
Bob, excellent.
The only point I would have made in addition, is that we're looking at the principle of harm reduction here. I would say in order of least to most harmful, we would have, 1) abstinence, 2) nic liquid, 3) WTA liquid, and 4) smoking.
There are still a fair number of alkaloids present in WTA, and some of them might be nastier in their own right than nicotine (like perhaps myosmine, for example). The useful harm reduction is realized when we acknowledge that WTA is certainly more harmful than abstinence, and most likely more harmful than regular nic liquid, but is certainly safer than burning tobacco with it's 4000 or so components just for the sake of getting a handful of components our brains actually want.
Also, a low PG/VG volume snus soak does a good job at creating a taste experience, and a passable job at creating a WTA experience that's not diluted beyond any possible efficacy.
A snus soak using 48 mg WTA is something that can make anyone say "wow", but the 48 mg WTA liquid which has a "wow" effect even on it's own is beyond the reach of most everyone due to the technical complexity of the production.
The only point I would have made in addition, is that we're looking at the principle of harm reduction here. I would say in order of least to most harmful, we would have, 1) abstinence, 2) nic liquid, 3) WTA liquid, and 4) smoking.
There are still a fair number of alkaloids present in WTA, and some of them might be nastier in their own right than nicotine (like perhaps myosmine, for example). The useful harm reduction is realized when we acknowledge that WTA is certainly more harmful than abstinence, and most likely more harmful than regular nic liquid, but is certainly safer than burning tobacco with it's 4000 or so components just for the sake of getting a handful of components our brains actually want.
Also, a low PG/VG volume snus soak does a good job at creating a taste experience, and a passable job at creating a WTA experience that's not diluted beyond any possible efficacy.
A snus soak using 48 mg WTA is something that can make anyone say "wow", but the 48 mg WTA liquid which has a "wow" effect even on it's own is beyond the reach of most everyone due to the technical complexity of the production.
I would expect any premium additive free RYO tobacco to be comparable to NAS. I know that NAS has been tested in research to be unusually effective at delivering nicotine in base form, so that's a consideration I keep in mind.
The real issue comes down to how effectively a 200 mg packet of tobacco soaked with 0.5 mL of 24 mg/nic PG actually is at getting the alkaloids out of the tobacco when vaped.
The figure of 8 mg/mL of WTA assumes all the best cases, and I think is worthy of investigation, but excitement must be tempered by caution since a fairly low WTA level might do the trick for some, but not for others.
A2D: I'm sure dVap is referring to Native American Spirit tobacco and/or cigarettes. I looked at them before I bought the pack of Neos. They are EXPENSIVE. And I didn't want to be tempted to smoke even one cigarette. If I did, I know I'd go back. I just would. Where cigarettes are concerned, I'm worse than an alcoholic trying a drink at a party. I can't do it. I want the smoking experience without the smoke or cigarette. Make sense?
DVap: Agree on your points, but I ran up against YouTube's 10-minute limit. Note that the edited version is 9:59:83. Oh my. I was just too gabby, I guess.
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