So I just noticed after a week the flavor changed . . .

[Liazard]

Until I noticed this change in flavor I hadn't paid much attention to steeping. How long should I allow for steeping after the liquid is mixed?

 

[puffon]

Depends on the flavors.
tobacco and custards can take awhile, 3-4 weeks.
Fruit flavors can be shake and vape, or better after a few days.
I mix at least a month ahead, so everything is steeped.
What I mixed today, won't be vaped until the fourth of July.
Many will try new mixes each week to taste the changes.

 

[Liazard]

Thanks! Is it only about flavor, or would an unflavored liquid also change taste?

 

[puffon]

I vape a lot of unflavored, but don't notice any change from steeping, just a light sweet taste of the VG.

 

[go_player]

Thanks! Is it only about flavor, or would an unflavored liquid also change taste?

It will eventually, but probably not in a very good way. The main change you'll note there is the nicotine oxidizing, and perhaps undergoing other chemical reactions, but that will take a while (the less nic, the less the effect will be.)

As to your original question, as @puffon said it depends a lot on the flavors involved. It also depends on the combination of flavors, the size of the batch you mix, and how well you're able to homogenize the liquid after mixing it (this is mainly why, in this case, size matters.)

There's not a lot of hard research on "steeping," but I think we can make some guesses about what's going on, and it seems to me that there are three main things involved. One is the evaporation of some volatiles from the liquid, which can get rid of off flavors, particularly from solvents like alcohol, etc, but can also reduce flavor over time.

Two is the the mixture becoming really well mixed, so that you're getting everything in equal amounts (there is also risk of separation, of course.)

And three, and probably the most important factor with juices that really need a lot of steep time, is the chemical reactions your flavors have with each other, and with their new environment. This is probably the biggest reason number two matters- the more thoroughly mixed (at a very fine level) your juice, the more opportunity the molecules involved have to encounter each other, become friendly, and perhaps bump uglies and eventually give birth to new little molecules.

Some molecules don't play as nicely with each other as others do. One might say "I wouldn't chemically interact with you if you were the last molecule on Earth." But give them a few weeks locked in a small bottle and who knows- they might discover there's a bit of chemistry there after all.

There are also flavors that help speed this third process for certain flavors (sort of like friends who are very good at making introductions.) This is one reason you'll see TFA Dragonfruit used so much in fruit recipes. It contains quite a bit of triethyl citrate, which acts almost like an emulsifier (though actually TFA Strawberry seems to contain more,) so it helps bring other molecules "together," wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

How long to allow depends on a lot of factors, but.. with pure fruits steps one and two tend to be the most important factors. I don't find all that much to be truly shake and vape, but I mix some things that are best at three days, say, and noticeably drop off after a week. I like lemon quite a bit, and most lemon flavors seem to have volatiles that evaporate very quickly.

Lighter creams and many bakeries tend to be good pretty quickly, but generally not as quickly as pure fruits (though it really depends on the recipe and personal taste.)

Other recipes, especially complex recipes heavy on custards, tobaccos (especially, from what I hear, NET tobaccos, though I have no personal experience with them,) etc., might take a couple of months or more to completely come together. Just how long will vary depending on the circumstances, even for the same recipe. How well the liquid has been mixed, the ambient temperature, etc., are going to be significant factors.

Also, since your question seems to be mostly about DIY, it might get more relevant eyeballs in that sub-forum.

 

[DaveP]

And always remember to shake-shake-shake at least once a day during steeping. Morning and night shaking is even better.

Some liquids develop rich color as steeping continues. Others may remain the same or develop very light color changes. Periodic tasting a few drops with a dripper atomizer is a good way to dynamically test the development of flavor. Aroma development is a good hint at how the mix is maturing, especially with tobaccos. Remove the cap and sniff.

 

[dannyv45]

Steeping depends on the flavor used

fruits and candies no steeping to a few days
deserts 2 - 4 weeks
tobaccos 3 - 5 weeks.

If I'm assuming correctly that by flavor changing you mean fading then some reasons for flavor fade are:

. Over flavoring will actually cause a loss of flavor over time or may never develop right from the start.
. Adding to much additive such as EM, mask, smooth, sweetener will mute flavor over time.
. Some flavors (Especially sweet flavors) naturally fade over time.
. NIC may introduce a harshness that masks flavor over time.

If my assumption is wrong then please expand on "This change in flavor"

 

[IDJoel]

@Liazard, Danny makes a good point:

If I'm assuming correctly that by flavor changing you mean fading

How does the flavor change (and what flavor(s) are you referring to)? Is it weaker, stronger, or just different (how is it different)? Various flavors will change differently, and for different reasons; more detail will result in more helpful information. Flavor name, brand, any mixing and speed "steeping" methods used (heat, ultrasonic, whisking, breathing, etc.), container type and size (as well as mixed volume; headspace can play a role), storage (on the dashboard of a car parked in the sun all day vs. in a climate controlled room in a drawer), will all influence the way an e-liquid will develop.

 

[Liazard]

Thanks for all the detailed replies.

How does the flavor change (and what flavor(s) are you referring to)? Is it weaker, stronger, or just different (how is it different)?

In retrospect I shouldn't have used the word "flavor" because I'm talking primarily unflavored mixes: e.g., nic salts (NudeNicotine) + PG and VG (30/70) + water. Nic is about 45-50 mg, used only in low-powered devices like iCare. All are DIY.

Kind of hard to describe what changes but the mixes become much smoother and cleaner, richer, less harsh after about a week, more so after a month, almost like it develops a slight pleasant flavor.

Yes, I've noticed a color change also (becomes a tan color from basically clear).

I also notice the mixes when shook and held up to the light right after mixing have tiny bubbles suspended. After steeping the bubbles no longer appear after shaking.

 

[dannyv45]

Are you saying your using a 45-50mg strength to create your mixed down base or vaping at 45 - 50mg strength. I hope its the latter because 45 - 50mg is quite strong. I've herd of some vaping up to 36mg but never as high as 50mg. So if that is the case please be very careful. I've read of some doing that just for the NIC buzz but that's a very foolish and dangerous way of getting your kicks and not condoned here on ECF and discussion can lead to being banned from the forum.

As far as it seeming to smooth out over time is not uncommon. It's part of the aging process. Some of the poorer quality NIC will actually get harsher over time. I don't know the properties of NIC salts as I've never tried them but as your vaping unflavored I would run this by the folks at NicSelect and see what they have to say about it.

 

[Liazard]

I hope its the latter because 45 - 50mg is quite strong. I've herd of some vaping up to 36mg but never as high as 50mg. So if that is the case please be very careful . . . a very foolish and dangerous way of getting your kicks and not condoned here on ECF and discussion can lead to being banned from the forum

Thanks for all the info. You're correct, I'm talking 45-50 mg/mL. Don't want to be banned, but here's some additional info you might be interested in because I think you might be overstating the problem. The rest of this thread should make an interesting debate once I post this . . .

JUUL (PAX labs) has been selling their JUUL pods for years now, which are "5% nicotine by weight (59 mg/mL per pod)" in nic salts. (Introducing JUUL - A Real Alternative to Cigarettes). I've never had a problem with their products in terms of bad effects. JUUL has been discussed on this forum for years.

Other companies sell nic salts e-liquids in 45 mg/mL including the big one, Mr. Salt (Mr. Salt-E Fruit & Menthol - Natural Nicotine Salts E-Liquid) among others (Yukon Nicotine Salts and Mint 45mg). I believe I've seen threads on some of these liquids on this forum also.

JUUL has their own device, but in general the salt/high nic liquids are for higher resistance (over 1.0Ω) (and low wattage?) devices like Eleaf iCare, iCare Solo, and MyJet myMini. I understand also that the salts formulations change absorption.

My understanding is that nicotine of course is toxic, but only at super high levels and you're likely to become too nauseous to vape before having a serious problem. Here's an article on that: Is It Possible to Overdose on Nicotine While Vaping?).

What is NicSelect?