So, if this new bill passes... How long do we have?

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newvaper92

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So if this new FDA regulation thing passes, how long do we have before everything is off the shelves? Certain amount of time after or is it going to be pulled immediately? What about DIY supplies and vape devices? Hopefully it works out in our favor, but if not, what can we do? I love vaping and don't want to have to quit :(
 

papergoblin

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Who knows but I would not expect anything until after the first of the year. Then again it all really depends on how the language is read in the end. They just recently pulled some cigs off the shelves almost over night but those violated enforced laws already. Those cigs were on the shelves for years but tobacco was fighting it. This is kind of a gray area in my opinion, so there is no telling. One thing is for sure they're going to do what they want on their schedule,lol. I don't believe they will pull the stuff, just tax the crap out of it and regulate it to death. It's more about money than health, so I'm sure they will give companies time to get any certification they require. My opinions only, I have been wrong many times before.
 
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sparkky1

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You could make a difference .......

Call the White House at 202-456-1111
I am calling to urge President Obama to protect consumer choice and demand that the FDA re-work its Tobacco Deeming Regulations so that the existing wide variety of e-cigarette and vapor products can remain on the market
 

zoiDman

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You could make a difference .......

Call the White House at 202-456-1111
I am calling to urge President Obama to protect consumer choice and demand that the FDA re-work its Tobacco Deeming Regulations so that the existing wide variety of e-cigarette and vapor products can remain on the market

There is also an Alternate Number that Robino1 posted...

Alternate number: 202-456-1414

That is the main switchboard. Tell them you are trying to comment on the FDA Deeming and e-cigarettes. They will put you through to the right place. Just listen to all the recordings and don't hang up. You will get a live person.

That's how I got through.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...on-call-the-white-house-on-10-28-2015.709689/
 

Jman8

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Just curious why you think it will be 2 ~ 4 Years before anything happens?

I think 2 to 4 years before products are enforced in a way where they are physically removed from shelves due to (potential) FDA ruling. This is based on compliance period stated by FDA (previously) and based on idea that government tends to move on such things (or all things) very slowly.

It is more likely that as a result of FDA ruling that companies seek early exit, but would allow their products to remain on shelves until their inventory is depleted. How many companies seek early exit is anyone's guess, but I imagine some will do so within the first week, and be fairly public about it.
 

zoiDman

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I think 2 to 4 years before products are enforced in a way where they are physically removed from shelves due to (potential) FDA ruling. This is based on compliance period stated by FDA (previously) and based on idea that government tends to move on such things (or all things) very slowly.

It is more likely that as a result of FDA ruling that companies seek early exit, but would allow their products to remain on shelves until their inventory is depleted. How many companies seek early exit is anyone's guess, but I imagine some will do so within the first week, and be fairly public about it.

And do you Feel this 2 ~ 4 Years will apply to e-Liquids and or Nicotine Base that contains Nicotine?
 

Jman8

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And do you Feel this 2 ~ 4 Years will apply to e-Liquids and or Nicotine Base that contains Nicotine?

No clue on nic base, I would guess not. I feel the 2 to 4 years applies to eLiquids and gear.

Very hard to determine who will stay around right now, but fairly certain the golden era is coming to a close. Sauron (aka FDA) is going after the ring of power.
 

Str8vision

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Government control/regulation (as written), will be implemented sometime next year but that will just be the beginning, much worse will follow. Once the FDA legally ascertains authority (through passage), they'll be free to add or modify the regulations "at will" without further political approval. Politicians (and therefore BT and big pharma), have -considerable- influence over the FDA concerning additional rules or modifications, that's where things will likely get ugly for us. As time marches on the FDA -will- tighten the regulatory noose a little at a time, year after year being careful not to make too big of waves all at once. On a different front, state governments will quickly seize upon the opportunity to impose numerous draconian taxes and many will add their own restrictive regulations. The government moves very slowly so you may still have a few years before the freedom we now enjoy vanish into the annals of fond memories. Vaping will still exist but not in its current form, it'll be much more expensive than it is now and far less convenient so enjoy the moment!
 

zoiDman

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No clue on nic base, I would guess not. I feel the 2 to 4 years applies to eLiquids and gear.

Very hard to determine who will stay around right now, but fairly certain the golden era is coming to a close. Sauron (aka FDA) is going after the ring of power.

Well one thing that Isn't in question is that Once Deeming is Finalized, that e-Liquids and Nicotine Base that contain Nicotine will be considered a "Tobacco Product".

And to Sell a Tobacco Product, any Tobacco Product, there are certain Requirements to be Meet. At the Federal, State and possibly Local Level. And if you can Not Comply with Any of these Requirements, you Can Not Sell Tobacco Products.

I own a piece of Commercial Property which has some Buildings on it. Not quite a "Strip Mall". But Close. I know that the Zoning for that piece of Property does Not Allow for the Sale or Storage of Tobacco Products. So if I had a Vape Shop in one of the Buildings on that property, I would be SOL to Sell e-Liquids. Even if there was so 2 ~ 4 year period where the FDA did Nothing.

There is Also that Nagging Issue of Face-2-Face sales Only for Tobacco Products? Which is a Fundament Component of the FSTPA. I haven't heard Much about Face-2-Face Sale if there will be any "Grace Period" for this.

If F2F Sale Only has a 90 or 180 Day Implementation Period, I wonder how many Retailers well be around 6 Months after Deeming is Complete?
 

zoiDman

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Could they stop all on-line sales immediately, if nicbase and e-juice is deemed a tobacco product?

Probably Not Immediately.

I'm sure they would have a 30, 60, 90 or Possible even a 180 Day Transition Period. But Technically, I believe, they would have to Power to do so.
 
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Jman8

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I own a piece of Commercial Property which has some Buildings on it. Not quite a "Strip Mall". But Close. I know that the Zoning for that piece of Property does Not Allow for the Sale or Storage of Tobacco Products. So if I had a Vape Shop in one of the Buildings on that property, I would be SOL to Sell e-Liquids. Even if there was so 2 ~ 4 year period where the FDA did Nothing.

Let's say vaping business owner has existing lease with you for say 2 years starting this past August. Then on Dec. 1st, the FDA changes classification of what is sold there to tobacco products. You can then terminate the lease? Do you just give 30 days notice? And in the meantime (for all of December) they are selling 'tobacco products' on that property? Likely having a 'going out of business sale.'
 

zoiDman

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Let's say vaping business owner has existing lease with you for say 2 years starting this past August. Then on Dec. 1st, the FDA changes classification of what is sold there to tobacco products. You can then terminate the lease? Do you just give 30 days notice? And in the meantime (for all of December) they are selling 'tobacco products' on that property? Likely having a 'going out of business sale.'

All fine for General Contact Law for Leases. But how does this Apply to the FDA and the Deeming of e-Liquids as Tobacco Products?

Kinda sounds like Apple and Oranges.

Review the Laws in your State regarding the Sale of Tobacco Products.
 

Jman8

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All fine for General Contact Law for Leases. But how does this Apply to the FDA and the Deeming of e-Liquids as Tobacco Products?

Kinda sounds like Apple and Oranges.

Review the Laws in your State regarding the Sale of Tobacco Products.

It relates to FDA deeming and this thread particularly because it provides reason to believe there will be lag time. If the rule is, as you previously stated, "I know that the Zoning for that piece of Property does Not Allow for the Sale or Storage of Tobacco Products." So, if okay to sell right now, but not okay to sell say Dec. 1st, then I asked you directly what would happen with property you own. Is it, kicked out that day and lease torn up? Or is it, kicked out within 30 days because of the new classification and time to get affairs in order? Or is it kicked out at end of lease? Two of these options assume that tobacco sales will occur on the property. One of them does not. The one that does not would seem to possibly violate general contract laws for leases. I went with the middle option because I'm thinking it is most reasonable, but also shows there would be lag time on what is otherwise a fairly strict policy. And under that option, tobacco products would be sold on the premises.
 

AJR091458

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My :2c:; It all sucks!! Vaping and all of its components ARE NOT tobacco products. Even the Forrest Gump's of the world could tell you that. We all know that, but the tribal council in DC is putting on the blinders because big tobacco has the politicians in their pocket. I'm very surprised that our beloved president (tongue-in-cheek) hasn't done anything to quell this tide of inconsistency with the findings and rulings seeing as he is a known chain smoker. Maybe he should start vaping. Might do us some good. I hope all of this rhetoric is for naught because, as I see it vaping is saving a lot of lives and health issues. Does anyone have a web link where we could voice our opinions? I would love to set my email to send a message every hour on the hour and fill their mailboxes with reason why they should reconsider.
:-x
 

papergoblin

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Here's the thing i saw a part about a house bill (HB). Right now there is no speaker, until one is voted in they cannot do a thing, especially as far as new legislation. Then there is the executive order, the President can circumvent any vote with an order. To block that order in simplistic talk is a majority veto vote, which will never happen and again cannot until a majority leader is elected. Therefore it to me is hard to say when or if this will happen. Don't get me wrong regs are coming in some shape or form. I think some regulations are a good thing but the sad part is, if you give an inch they take a mile. Common sense needs to prevail but unfortunately when it comes to Washington and/or alphabet agencies, there seems to be a lacking of it.
 
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