So, my goober boyfriend...

[ambeck22]

Got his older brother hooked on vaping . Typically, that's a good thing, but his brother didn't smoke and has never smoked! He (my bf) said he didn't push it on him, but he sticks his PV in everyone's face trying to get them to try it. The wife isn't too happy about it. We make most of our juice except for my favorite, and I had the idea to make his brother 0 nic or close to it since he wasn't a smoker. The brother says vaping relaxes him, so would he notice if the juice had 0 nic or not? I think he likes it mostly for the taste and a type of bonding thing with my bf and not really the nic since what we make is usually around 12-15mg. There's a question in there somewhere, but welcome thoughts, too .

 

[the_vape_nerd]

no brainer....of course make him some 0 nic batches

 

[AG51]

I can't tell you what to do in that situation but I can tell you what I did to a friend of mine She does smoke cigs and wanted to try vaping when I was down to her house. I handed her a pv and we spent the day vaping away. She never even craved a cig and was just raving over how vaping took care of her nicotine need etc etc. What I didn't tell her was that I had weaned myself off down to 0 nic awhile ago, and she never knew the difference. It was the taste of the juice she was enjoying, NOT the nicotine that wasn't even there I know that's not the same as him never smoking before, but the fact is that she couldn't tell if there was nic in the vape or not and was quite happy with it.

 

[Iffy]

I vote no nic!

 

[wseyller]

But you can tell if it has no nic. Not sure he is wise enough to know. If he likes it because of the throat hit then he will complaint about the zero nic juice because throat hit will be zero.

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

I don't like the idea, nic or no.

The idea here is harm reduction; that works when substituting vaping for cigarettes. Most of us are aware of the recent testing in Greece, where "...changes in the lung function of healthy smokers who puffed on an e-cigarette for just five minutes." Study finds e-cigarettes affect airways, and quickly | Reuters

Limited study, small sampling; that cigarettes are the infinitely greater evil is a no-brainer. But for someone that doesn't smoke, what the effect of vaping will prove to be in 20 years is a risk they need not be taking.

 

[erictho]

I don't like the idea, nic or no.

The idea here is harm reduction; that works when substituting vaping for cigarettes. Most of us are aware of the recent testing in Greece, where "...changes in the lung function of healthy smokers who puffed on an e-cigarette for just five minutes." Study finds e-cigarettes affect airways, and quickly | Reuters

Limited study, small sampling; that cigarettes are the infinitely greater evil is a no-brainer. But for someone that doesn't smoke, what the effect of vaping will prove to be in 20 years is a risk they need not be taking.

i'm a little confused by one part in the article, which i feel needs clarification. they noted that airway constriction did not appear to be an issue when the control group used pvs without cartridges. does that mean they filled their own cartos? did they use atomizers? i'm left wondering as to what they're using in their control.

 

[VaporPhreak]

I agree with erictho on this one.... were they dripping with an atty or simply "puffing" a dry atty? And what was the filler in the cart? polyfill? tea bag material? silicon mesh? there are a number of different fillers and just because MOST companies use polyfill doesn't mean they all do...

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

"So one or more ingredients in the e-cigarette may be responsible, but it's not known which they are, Vardavas said"

Evidentally, the "control" devices were PVs with no liquid, through which air was sucked. How pointless was that?

 

[ohai]

Nicotine is a known vasoconstrictor, so I would think it's obvious that it was the nic effecting the airways in that study, but frankly, it looks like that study could be flawed in many ways. We aren't given enough information- what's the pg/vg ratio, what's the nic level, any flavor additives, etc- and it doesn't look like near enough data was collected anyway. Not that it should be disregarded... but Imonna disregard it anyway. Do it right or you can't call it a fact, imo. My breathing is worlds better.

I vote for no nic in the bf's brother's juice. He's a grown man, so you can't really tell him he's being a nimrod by creating a new and unnecessary habit for himself (well, you could, but I wouldn't. ok, fine, I probably would, but I'm snarky like that), but the least you can do is prevent him from making it into a physical addiction. As for throat hit, you could make up for the lack of nic with a little extra PG.

 

[wseyller]

As for throat hit, you could make up for the lack of nic with a little extra PG.

With no nic there is no making up for it. PG does not produce throat hit. Higher PG only allow more throat hit from available nicotine. With no available nicotine the PG doesn't help. Throat hit requires nicotine. Now there are other additives can be produce Throat Irritation such as pure grain alcohol, pepper. Other then that Menthol will naturally give some throat sensation.

 

[BHam]

I say no nicotine, just to make sure he doesn't get hooked on something he wasn't planning on getting hooked on. My fraternity loved my pv and they asked all about so I got them started. BUT I told them I would never let them try my nicotine flavors because I didn't want them to get an urges.

 

[erictho]

Nicotine is a known vasoconstrictor, so I would think it's obvious that it was the nic effecting the airways in that study, but frankly, it looks like that study could be flawed in many ways. We aren't given enough information- what's the pg/vg ratio, what's the nic level, any flavor additives, etc- and it doesn't look like near enough data was collected anyway.

this is also what initially came to mind when i read that conclusion as well.

 

[JENerationX]

I suppose a cigarette doesn't constrict the lungs? That study is ridiculously flawed. How did that even get funded?

 

[WCSR]

This is exactly what we don't need for vaping. We don't need people picking it up if they didn't use nicotine prior.

 

[WCSR]

With no nic there is no making up for it. PG does not produce throat hit. Higher PG only allow more throat hit from available nicotine. With no available nicotine the PG doesn't help. Throat hit requires nicotine. Now there are other additives can be produce Throat Irritation such as pure grain alcohol, pepper. Other then that Menthol will naturally give some throat sensation.

Correct. The reason you get more throat hit when using nicotine with PG as opposed to VG...is because PG isn't as thick. You'd get more of a burn if you put red pepper in water and drank it, than you would if you put it in castor oil and drank it.

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

Nicotine is a known vasoconstrictor, so I would think it's obvious that it was the nic effecting the airways in that study, but frankly, it looks like that study could be flawed in many ways.

First of all, yes, nicotine is a vasoconstricter. But the effects noted in the study were "changes in lung function...signs of airway constriction," not a narrowing of blood vessels. Yes, the study is flawed by its limitations, an admission made: "one or more ingredients in the e-cigarette may be responsible, but [if so] it's not known which they are." And for the precise reasons you mention:

...what's the pg/vg ratio, what's the nic level, any flavor additives, etc.

In fairness, although the researchers hadn't the vaping savvy to introduce any of those factors into the trial, they recognized that cause-and-effect determination on the basis of the data collected would be indefensible—as would a determination that "...it's obvious that it was the nic effecting the airways."

He's a grown man, so you can't really tell him he's being a nimrod by creating a new and unnecessary habit for himself.

No, you can't. But the issue at hand is that the OP's boyfriend (AKA, goober) "got his older brother hooked on vaping...his brother didn't smoke and has never smoked!"

I have no problem with a non-smoker—by his own, unmolested volition—buying a disposable RN4081 from a gas station, then making a properly informed decision to absorb whatever unknown risks they may entail should he decide to make a habit of them.

I have a problem with anyone pressuring a non-smoker into vaping for the same reason I'd never think of encouraging a non-intravenous drug user into taking up methadone.

We, as vapers, have plenty enough of an image problem to begin with, thank you very much.

 

[AttyPops]

Bah. Everything changes lung function, pollen, smog, caffeine, blah blah blah. Saying e-cigs change lung function is like saying eyesight is better in the daytime and worse at night.

I vote no nic for the brother along with a speech about how we don't have 20 years of data on this, and it's best to inhale clean air. I also 2nd, (or 3rd or whatever) the Harm Reduction justification and he should be aware of that aspect of e-cigs. Slap the BF up for not taking better care of his big brother.

 

[wseyller]

The brother is an adult so whatever. He is responsible for his own consequences whether or not there are any. But overall my opinion is for a non smoker to not start vaping unless they feel pressured to start up the habit of actual analogs.

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[Butters78]

Just tell him it's addicting etc.. like others said he is an adult and can make his own decisions. At least it's not crack!