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I need one of those. Really I mean it. It's not just buying to have. I have to have one just in case.
I agree with @Rossum, the US vape market as a share of the worldwide market is huge. Scroll down a bit and check out the chart 'Top 10 markets for vape products'.
Given some of the discussions in other threads that have taken over the original posters reason for the discussion and purpose of that thread . . . AND - Although there are other threads already having this type of discussion/discourse that people ignore or pass on (Don't really know their reasons why they refuse to post there where the same discussion is happening) . . . SO - This thread is only being created to hopefully move the ongoing disruptive conversation in other threads and have a specific thread opened for that discussion - instead of having it spread through-out so many other threads - in effect changing the main topic of discussion and why People are there in the first place . . .
This threads main purpose is to discuss and/or further debate - of course following ECF(This is NOT "OUTSIDE") - these personal opinions and commentaries . . .
SO - What is it that you perceive is going to happen - once Deeming Regulations, Federal, State, an even Local laws/restrictions are passed (or already have been passed) . . . AND - Are actually finally enacted . . .
Great idea Uncle
Those of us who have been around ECF for years have seen a bunch of hot topics come and go. Things like cloud chasing, the dangers of mech mods, VV vs VW, the Provari saga, and a bunch more. Folks become emotionally involved, logic goes out the window, the difference between fact and opinion becomes irrelevant and the topics find their off-topic way into a surprising number of threads.
And it's not just vaping, the same process happens with a lot of other subjects. Human nature at work. We take ourselves too seriously, emotions kick in and off we go over and over again
Vape on everyone.
My prediction:
Vaping will go back to it's roots. By that I don't necessarily mean the technology, I mean the vaping base. The number of those that vape because it was a fad, and or quick and easy, a way to bypass smoking ordinances, and or never smoked will fall off.
Us that were around before there were B&M's and were willing to put the effort into it because we really wanted to be free of smokes but couldn't give up nicotine (and those kindred spirits that wern't around then) will vape and DIY and mod if necessary. BT will have a few successful PMTA products but costs will be comparable to or higher than smoking.
Quite possibly extracted or synthesized nicotine will be controlled and or taxed to the point DIY will be for those that already have it at that point similar to the fact you could keep on your property and consume any alcohol that you purchased prior to prohibition taking effect.
Lawyers or Lawmakers will get PMTA approved devices included in the MSA or similar setup.
Harry Anslinger whom has been turning in his grave due to public perception turning around about weed will have at least a little solace in the fact that his techniques have been successfully used against vaping.
Long term the same will happen with vaping but it might take generations.
Vaping will go back to it's roots. By that I don't necessarily mean the technology, I mean the vaping base. The number of those that vape because it was a fad, and or quick and easy, a way to bypass smoking ordinances, and or never smoked will fall off.
Us that were around before there were B&M's and were willing to put the effort into it because we really wanted to be free of smokes but couldn't give up nicotine (and those kindred spirits that wern't around then) will vape and DIY and mod if necessary. BT will have a few successful PMTA products but costs will be comparable to or higher than smoking.
Quite possibly extracted or synthesized nicotine will be controlled and or taxed to the point DIY will be for those that already have it at that point similar to the fact you could keep on your property and consume any alcohol that you purchased prior to prohibition taking effect.
Lawyers or Lawmakers will get PMTA approved devices included in the MSA or similar setup.
Harry Anslinger whom has been turning in his grave due to public perception turning around about weed will have at least a little solace in the fact that his techniques have been successfully used against vaping.
Long term the same will happen with vaping but it might take generations.
thanks for posting the link to Global sales. America appears to be half of global sales but it isn't quite that simple. A substantial percentage of that is going to be domestically-produced e-liquid. So the Chinese manufacturers aren't quite as dependent on the US market as that chart makes it appear. Even so if shipments to the u.s. are drastically reduced most of those manufacturers will have to reduce employees reduce production Etc so I'm expecting there to be some pretty good deals coming up if the axe falls. It's also possible that growth and all those other markets will be fast enough to take up the slack from reduced demand from the US.
Just now thinking, maybe, with the inevitable lack of available products which will occur from a heavy handed enforcement, there will be an uptick in smoking rates. If honestly documented and analyzed, there could be a backlash from true health advocates down the road asking what the hell went wrong here!?! Maybe then a real discussion could be made for harm reduction policies instead of the prohibitionary course we seem tied to presently...
Yeah, was thinking about that also when Massachusetts went crazy but I think many smokers might not go back to retail for their cigs. I'd be going black market myself and there would be no way then for the govt to gauge usage. How do they even track underage use?
Since WA is trying to make the flavor ban permanent, somewhere over 160 B&Ms have closed in this State. Gee, take away the big money maker from a business, and guess what happens. When the Dooming hits and the rest of their income goes away, well, not hard to guess what will happen next.
While we may be able to slip through the cracks, since we mostly get small packages of filters, shops that used to order larger quantities won't be so lucky - and won't be able to sell it legally, anyway.
Will hardware survive in pot shops? Some of it may, at least on the battery/mod side, but tanks for nic aren't the same, so... as DP says,
While we may be able to slip through the cracks, since we mostly get small packages of filters, shops that used to order larger quantities won't be so lucky - and won't be able to sell it legally, anyway.
Will hardware survive in pot shops? Some of it may, at least on the battery/mod side, but tanks for nic aren't the same, so... as DP says,
What I perceive is going to happen is:
- in 2020, the DIY community will be untouched. Articles about it (for and against) will continue to pop up, but nothing resembling enforcement will happen
- ANTZ will continue to claim that regulations and enforcement hasn't gone far enough. The one thing I haven't seen in replies to the opening post (through page 3) is the propaganda machine that counters messages pro-vaping side puts out. Their propaganda does more than counter, it puts us on defensive against false information, i.e. the 2019 THC scandal. ANTZ propaganda greatly influences non-vaping opinions about eCigs. I believe this propaganda will intensify going forward.
- Final Guidance for Deeming regulations will in 2020 (and beyond) go after all retail establishments that are in any way contributing products that get to kids. Because of ANTZ, it could truly be the case that vaping entities are doing everything they can to prevent use by minors, but stories will exist that make it so the public sees reason to shut it 'em all down. I doubt they all shut down. I very much hope they do not.
- State laws will be written to expand upon Final Guidance and governing all manufacturing / mixing of product. I think some states will exempt personal use/mixing (and make that clear) and others will not. I think vast majority of (die-hard) vapers will ignore any laws regarding personal use / personal manufacturing.
- If ANTZ propaganda didn't exist, or I didn't think it would intensify going forward, then I think the vaping community has very little to worry about going forward. Because I do think it will intensify, then I do think there's a chance DIY will be affected down the road. I'd say by 2025. It will be a vastly different vaping landscape at that time. I don't know how it will all play out, but I do think states will have restrictions on amount of eLiquid/liquid nicotine any individual can have in their possession, and some states (with lots of ANTZ ties, i.e. California) will make it a point to bust people, as dealers, for having lots of personal product in their possession.
- I think ANTZ will continuously overplay their pathetic hand. Such that at some point, the non-vaping public opinion on eCigs will change, for the better. And society as a whole will recognize FDA, CDC and media are visibly over zealous in their crackdown on vaping. They will conclude that products need regulation, but not heavy handed enforcement. How much the opinions by the non-vaping public changes from today remains to be seen. But I am perhaps too optimistic on this front. I actually do think by 2030 the legal vaping market will be much more open to small businesses entering the market, and to a multitude of flavors being available for the legal eLiquid market.
I think of ANTZ as the Carrie Nation's of Prohibition age. Over zealous ones that blame others for society problems rather than look at personal responsibility. There are always some that can't control themselves so they want to control you. The anti smoker or anti vaper wants to yank that cigarette or vape right out of your mouth. That is where we are at the moment. Fact is people do not like to be controlled and when it gets oppressive, people fight back or find a way. Will be interesting to see it all play out.
Yeah but are they going to be honest about it?
That was my first thought too, we were all teens once, remember the silly stuff you did just for fun, like making jokes of surveys LOL
I predict Element Vape and Breezy will survive too since they sell CBD and other vape products. The prices tho, geez, some CBD vapors are way high.
That will be interesting to see how it works out.
I do agree with that big tobacco will own this industry in this country. Vaping has gone un-taxed for years and those that quit ciggs are lost revenue. They have the money and relationships already established with the Fraud Deception Authority. I do not think they care about the health of those in this country. Its all about the money, profits and taxation. Look at our disease maintenance/symptom management focused "health care" industry in this country as an example all regulated by the Fraud Deception Authority. Prices/costs are outrageous and many not even based on the real cost of goods/services sold. Many dangerous drugs are allowed to exist. Good Alternative doctors that get people off all the drugs (lost revenue to big pharma) and treat the root cause of a medical issue instead of symptom management are forced out of business or jailed. I could go on and on. We are told insurance is the answer (a ploy) when the real problem exists at the system's root foundation. Insurance for all will make many even more rich at our cost in higher taxes to pay for it and of course the loss of power we have still have today - choice not to buy insurance and not to use the conventional medical doctors, drugs etc. See a pattern here??
The teen/child vaping/smoking propaganda is nothing but a ploy by those that want to take our power away. Who can argue with impressionable children that want to be cool etc and too young to know the consequences of their actions. IF you say this is BS and just enforce the laws that have existed for YEARS you get labeled and verbally attacked ie identity politics. It would not be hard to really enforce the already EXISTING age laws for tobacco sales without infringing on adult's rights buy vaping equipment etc. What needs to be done is enough people need to ask the right questions and demand answers. Why aren't the existing laws that have been around for years NOT being enforced well on purchase age?? Given we do not know the real long term risks to vaping adults are old enough, mature enough to make their own decisions and accept the consequences of their actions.
I do think the days of buying nic will be over soon. Hardware will likely be available directly from China with customs seizing some but most making it in. We will likely pay higher prices as well. Only hope we have is if the industry appeals to POTUS and can show him how many jobs will be lost etc. Lost jobs = lost votes. Private stashes for personal use would not be touched.
Bottom line stock up now while you can so you are prepared for the worst.
The teen/child vaping/smoking propaganda is nothing but a ploy by those that want to take our power away. Who can argue with impressionable children that want to be cool etc and too young to know the consequences of their actions. IF you say this is BS and just enforce the laws that have existed for YEARS you get labeled and verbally attacked ie identity politics. It would not be hard to really enforce the already EXISTING age laws for tobacco sales without infringing on adult's rights buy vaping equipment etc. What needs to be done is enough people need to ask the right questions and demand answers. Why aren't the existing laws that have been around for years NOT being enforced well on purchase age?? Given we do not know the real long term risks to vaping adults are old enough, mature enough to make their own decisions and accept the consequences of their actions.
I do think the days of buying nic will be over soon. Hardware will likely be available directly from China with customs seizing some but most making it in. We will likely pay higher prices as well. Only hope we have is if the industry appeals to POTUS and can show him how many jobs will be lost etc. Lost jobs = lost votes. Private stashes for personal use would not be touched.
Bottom line stock up now while you can so you are prepared for the worst.
What I've been grumbling about for years. Most places, at least in the USofA, selling to under 18 (now 21) is illegal. Enforce that.
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